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Pakistan Air Force needs to replace 190 planes by 2020

The PAF did up the JF-17 numbers to 188 (26 JF-17B and 12 Block-2). That will absorb some of the F-16 and F-7PG losses, and help let go of a few Mirages. The one variance (which is more up to China's willingness to extend credit) is J-10CE.

Many sources have stated the contract for 50 J-10CEs has already been signed on an emergency basis. The same source said the same thing about the VT-4 a few years ago and just recently the army inducted a batch of them. It appears the Pakistani military likes to keep it mum about its procurements as to keep the enemy guessing. The J-10CE makes perfectly logical sense for the PAF as it can be inducted on an emergency basis and many of its parts/avionics/components are similar to the JF-17. The J-10CE procurement will also act as a supplement to the JF-17 numbers supporting the JF-17 in its missions a similar strategy has been carried out before (VT-4 purchase from China while continuing to produce Al-khalids variants at home).

Overall if you look into the 2025-2027 timeframe PAF will gain the following:

- 100-120 JF-17 Block 3
-70 J-10CE
-36 J-XX/AZM (Fc-31? JF-17block 4 stealth?)

Of these the deals for the JF-17 block 3 production and 50 J-10CEs have already been signed and confirmed. The AZM programs has been in the pipeline for years and a known priority of the PAF.
 
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Overall if you look into the 2025-2027 timeframe PAF will gain the following:
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-36 J-XX/AZM (Fc-31? JF-17block 4 stealth?)
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Don't you think this is a plain unrealistic? AZM hasn't been finalised and J.35/FC-31 serial variant if chosen by Pakistan too hasn't flown yet. So even if the J-35 will appear this month like some assume, it won't be ready for delivery to an export customer until 2027.
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Of these the deals for the JF-17 block 3 production and 50 J-10CEs have already been signed and confirmed. The AZM programs has been in the pipeline for years and a known priority of the PAF.

And who "CONFIRMED" the J-10C deal?
 
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Hi,

For once---why don't you clearly state what needs to be done---rather than live on sarcastic comments most of the time---.
Because unlike many, I don’t claim to be an expert in every matter just because I can get ten online kids to say “Jay sq8 ki” to get validation.

I also don’t make simpleton statements like “PAF are cowards” because either I know them much better in that particular field to pass blanket statements do or I trust experts who do.

I do have a penchant for sarcasm, I blame it on having a taste for British comedy but it’s better than using CAPS lock or making trumpian statements based on a single sentence I read elsewhere or heard somewhere.

I wont step into the domain of a tactical fighter leader unless I have thoroughly read up on the subject, had a chance to either practice it or at least have some portion of my learning validated by an actual subject matter expert.

Alhamdulillah, I have been slowly but surely granted to wisdom to also know that if I worked in a field ten years ago it doesn’t mean my ideas are still valid - I need to ask someone I know who still lives in it because they are ages ahead now.

I know enough 70’s immigrant Buddhas who think that their experience of the world is just as valid today as it was in 1985 and then get their slap around to know how far things have moved on.Those I respect are the ones who truly moved with the times, understand today’s realities and then think before making statements instead of harping on the same tune - I have learned from them to know when I am doing the same.

So bade mian, despite your “hawai fire” statements which people who reflect the same “I heard it on whatsapp” mentality are swallowing - I know that despite of the many shortcomings the PAF faces from its internal factors - many, many of which are highlighted by its own “heroes” who work to keep the valued and edge afloat; it had done relatively ok when compared to the rest of the nation. Are they corrupt people? Yes, like all organizations - are there cowards? Yes, like all fighting armies from the days of Uhud and before. You have plenty of books and testimonials available on what sort of leadership “rape” has been done. But to sum it up as the PAF in entirety as some blanket proof is to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

ACdre Sajjad writies in his book of how in 65 our former’s PM’s father literally sat on his butt and left golden opportunities to waste. But then he also cites a foolhardy attack on an Indian airfield using an expensively modified Elint F-104 just because some paper pusher wanted glory.

I am satirical because I have taken a break from hope for Pakistan - because from my limited perspective they are still making the same mistakes your generation made that got us here in the first place. Most people, including yourself and trust that with my life want what is best for Pakistan. But these are limited perspectives which if left without the right people advising and the right guidance will destroy the country.
I will never in my right mind argue with you on sales, dealership functions and dynamics or automotive vehicles because that is what you have lived and breathed for the last many decades and would wipe the floor with me trying to argue with it. Plenty of other subjects you know closely as well, but I would take a peck at someone who claims that Pakistani R&D is the best or useless, because for whatever limited time I have lived in it. The same goes for systems integration or Project management because that is where I live and I can wipe floors if needed. I would argue fighters with a arty man but would not dare so with even a sq commander because they live in that world - at the least I wouldn’t be the fool to say to then “you are cowards, you don’t know anything “

The biggest problem with Pakistanis is that they all think they are gods gift to earth on their own - without realizing that its a collective that when combined is the real god’s gift to earth.
When the luftwaffe attacked, many British flyers
also had shell shock, panic and bugged out. But it was flight leaders and aces that made the day along with the countless observers and radar operators to guide them.

A JF-17 , a F-16 didn’t go into Indian territory to outsmart them on their own turf. A Saab 2000 AEW which is otherwise useless in a dogfight provided the picture , A Falcon 20 business jet blinded the enemy,constant elint and humint reports built a picture in AHQ, the vipers Ew, the Mirage’s long fangs.. all of it combined worked.
If(as you allege even though we have it on video record that clearances to engage were coming from AHQ) someone chickened out - there were a hundred factors including the situational awareness that had them making that decision.

It wasn’t one person that made or ruined the day, and if it was one person then their actions were a result of their training that began from their first day in school.

Bye
 
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Allah loathes bigots and those who dont fulfil their covenants . I fear its the Pakistani nation as whole which fits the discription . Just look at the down right betrayal of kashmiri blood and honour.


We may discuss the level of gentleness to be applied to that red button intiating caps lock when Indian armoured thrust would be knocking at the doors of bahria and g.o.r's but meanwhile gotta stick to securing another flat in some gated community and also to whatever kind of shock therapy being administered by a group of learned professionals.



P:S: its not the way of the Almighty to leave the bigots alone and mind His own busniess . Wait until certainity comes to all of us .
 
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How many of them are replaced. Pakistan has deployed many new' jf17s. Are they good enough?
 
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Production has been slower compared to what was initially assumed back in 2010 , 10 years ago
I thought would have 250 JF17 Thunders by 2015-2016

But Aircrafts being a very technically challenging piece , the production has been a modest number on a year to year basic

However the engineers still have to be congratulated even with the 40%-45% of the targets. The quality is there at world class levels
 
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Many sources have stated the contract for 50 J-10CEs has already been signed on an emergency basis. The same source said the same thing about the VT-4 a few years ago and just recently the army inducted a batch of them. It appears the Pakistani military likes to keep it mum about its procurements as to keep the enemy guessing. The J-10CE makes perfectly logical sense for the PAF as it can be inducted on an emergency basis and many of its parts/avionics/components are similar to the JF-17. The J-10CE procurement will also act as a supplement to the JF-17 numbers supporting the JF-17 in its missions a similar strategy has been carried out before (VT-4 purchase from China while continuing to produce Al-khalids variants at home).

Overall if you look into the 2025-2027 timeframe PAF will gain the following:

- 100-120 JF-17 Block 3
-70 J-10CE
-36 J-XX/AZM (Fc-31? JF-17block 4 stealth?)

Of these the deals for the JF-17 block 3 production and 50 J-10CEs have already been signed and confirmed. The AZM programs has been in the pipeline for years and a known priority of the PAF.
Given the engine issues of J10; it is very much doubt ful.
I would pay lip service to those sources; those sources are the same who said J11, Su35, F16, JH7 ... and even claimed they were on the ground ... man it would be one stealth coating.
 
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Given the engine issues of J10; it is very much doubt ful.
I would pay lip service to those sources; those sources are the same who said J11, Su35, F16, JH7 ... and even claimed they were on the ground ... man it would be one stealth coating.
I would have hoped that the by looking at the advancements in other fields .. ws 10 would atleast be as capable and durable as russians engine. I will surprised if they arent..

Afterall we are talking about 1970s/1980s engines and chinese have been cloning engines for decades
 
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The problem with all of everyone here’s wishes and hopes is just that; they are facing the collective “shoot yourself in the foot” of this people. Why were the ZDK’s bought? Why were staff cars purchased instead of additional spares or equipment? Why was the wrong person in charge of so many, many leapfrog programs Pakistan had?
Thanks good posts. Whats wrong with ZDKs?

And could you give examples of the wrong people in the wrong place to differentiate yourself from those who make blanket claims of rotten leadership. Thanks.
 
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Don't you think this is a plain unrealistic? AZM hasn't been finalised and J.35/FC-31 serial variant if chosen by Pakistan too hasn't flown yet. So even if the J-35 will appear this month like some assume, it won't be ready for delivery to an export customer until 2027.


And who "CONFIRMED" the J-10C deal?




My sources in the PAF have confirmed the news. Procurement will be on a fast track basis. Wait until the first J-10s arrive next year :)
 
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I would have hoped that the by looking at the advancements in other fields .. ws 10 would atleast be as capable and durable as russians engine. I will surprised if they arent..

Afterall we are talking about 1970s/1980s engines and chinese have been cloning engines for decades
The J10 engine is especially prone to failures. It is their poster child right now.
 
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Thanks good posts. Whats wrong with ZDKs?

And could you give examples of the wrong people in the wrong place to differentiate yourself from those who make blanket claims of rotten leadership. Thanks.
Two camps of thought :
1. Original order was for 6-8 Saab 2000’s but this was reduced to accommodate a new initiative by the leadership of the time to buy the ZDK-03s.
2. Plenty of objections were given to this move - both provided pros and cons but time has not been kind to the evaluation of the ZDK in some aspects while the erieye has has full marks through and through (almost).

As for wrong people, this is beyond the scope of this subject - and many of them are sitting. You want a start on wrong people - read up on the few books written by recognized heroes on the PAF.
There are always perspectives : The infamous Adm Mansoor ul Haq has his fair share of supporters as well. Because for all his misleadings(he just happened to be caught and a scapegoat) he did initiate a few reforms and changes that benefit the PN to this day ... or so Ive heard from multiple quarters @Rashid Mahmood
 
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Many sources have stated the contract for 50 J-10CEs has already been signed on an emergency basis. The same source said the same thing about the VT-4 a few years ago and just recently the army inducted a batch of them. It appears the Pakistani military likes to keep it mum about its procurements as to keep the enemy guessing. The J-10CE makes perfectly logical sense for the PAF as it can be inducted on an emergency basis and many of its parts/avionics/components are similar to the JF-17. The J-10CE procurement will also act as a supplement to the JF-17 numbers supporting the JF-17 in its missions a similar strategy has been carried out before (VT-4 purchase from China while continuing to produce Al-khalids variants at home).

Overall if you look into the 2025-2027 timeframe PAF will gain the following:

- 100-120 JF-17 Block 3
-70 J-10CE
-36 J-XX/AZM (Fc-31? JF-17block 4 stealth?)

Of these the deals for the JF-17 block 3 production and 50 J-10CEs have already been signed and confirmed. The AZM programs has been in the pipeline for years and a known priority of the PAF.

You must be dreaming......

JF-17 block 3: PAF will have between 30 - 40 JF-17 block 3 by 2027.

J-10C: It’s a big question mark. We will have to wait for the confirmation.

AZM project: Building 5th generation fighter jet is not like building a dinning table. AZM is still on preliminary design stages, design has to be finalized, then it will go into development phase, prototype will be build and it may require additional prototypes, and another 5 years for testing, and it may take 2030 to go into limited production and 2035 for serial production.
 
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