Pakistan against any attempt to topple Bashar al-Assad (unexpected but right stand !

[Mrc]

What will you fire in tight streets with no population and heavy anti tank fire coming from them? Do you want to know what the Pakistan army does if it receives sniper fire in N or S Waziristan? Or for that matter the US in Fallujah or the UK in Helmand? Dont fall into these Arab story telling of that killing innocent civilians is somehow what a dictator wants in 2015. Yes, I agree that some of Assads henchmen might be corrupt and vile and should be taken to book for some crimes they have committed. But saying that Assad says to his airforce to go find innocent civilians to murder so that the world helps him keep his presidency is just ludicrous. It does not work with so much media. Majority of the population is with him. The cities under his control are fighting back with everyday life even with constant aimed mortar fire at civilian zones. And by the way I am against the use of any unguided fire be it barrel bombs against Syrian targets or Hammas rockets against civilians.

Pakistan army evacuates civilians .... waits months for them to evacuate...fascilitates and hosts them in camps and no....they still dont use tanks in towns....

Civilian casualities in pakistani ops are low may be in hundreds...far lower than taliban achievement of 40000 pak civilians killed...

Pakistani refugees are not flooding europe with their wives and childern

They are usually happy and well settled in their homes

If u just want to rant thats fine..thats what internet is for
If u want an intellihlgent assesment...

Pakistan was faced with an inhuman insurgency....
Pakistani tactics are very different and infantry actually does majority of work... only few tanks have been used only for supportive fire...

Pakistani tanks are accurate...
They donot use them in front line but as infantry support....

None of towns pakistan cleared looks like a ruin...infratstructure was intact...and was actively rebuild and improved.....
Nearly all have been repopulated and most are open for buissness and even westerner tourists....

Compare this now to what asad's army has done....




Asad killed thousands while supressing political unrest in cities....
They donot evecuate cities .. they have made zero effort from day one to protect civilians....

It was praceful demonstrations which changed into a full fledged war

Only a blind man can compare

 

[batmannow]

So Pakistan will support Assad genocide of syrian people along with iran and russia

but as expected from this govt

Too parpogated by CIA , all the dam stories are slaps on the faces of the allied conspirators , who just wants to rule Muslim world one by one ,Iraq ,Libya , Afghanistan & now sirya ?
No , they have to stop it ?
Libya was better under qadafi ?
Iraq was better under Saddam ?
& I'm million % sure sirya will be better under Assad !

 

[Hellfire]

Pakistan army evacuates civilians .... waits months for them to evacuate...fascilitates and hosts them in camps and no....they still dont use tanks in towns....

Civilian casualities in pakistani ops are low may be in hundreds...far lower than taliban achievement of 40000 pak civilians killed...
Pakistani refugees are not flooding europe with their wives and childern

They are usually happy and well settled in their homes

If u just want to rant thats fine..thats what internet is for

Eh .. what of the million plus IDPs?

Source for you ... Fata operation puts children at risk - Newspaper - DAWN.COM (this is just one aspect, casualties you can google up in your own sources)

If u want an intellihlgent assesment...

Pakistan was faced with an inhuman insurgency....
Pakistani tactics are very different and infantry actually does majority of work... only few tanks have been used only for supportive fire...

Pakistani tanks are accurate...
They donot use them in front line but as infantry support....

Oh the infantry actually does majority of work .... and in Syria? Airforce and Armor? Tanks not used in front line but in supportive fire? Eh, is your 'tank' the self propelled gun? Ever heard of mechanized warfare? Ah .. sorry I get it, theoretically with the elevation of Tank's main gun (approx. 25') and placing it on 20' berm, you can increase it's shell's range to 20 plus kms. But then it shall diminish the accuracy .... oh am sorry again you said your tanks are accurate .. so with gyro stabilizers and LASER/GPS designators I presume? That is amazing tech bro!

Operation Zarb-e-Azb: 29th June Developments - PKKH.tv

None of towns pakistan cleared looks like a ruin...infratstructure was intact...and was actively rebuild and improved.....
Nearly all have been repopulated and most are open for buissness and even westerner tourists....

Compare this now to what asad's army has done....

Yes I agree, intact infrastructure in operational area. Somehow this guy just does not get what you are saying. He must have served in some other Pakistan's army ...

Military laments ‘disappointing’ Afghan response - The Express Tribune

Only a blind man can compare

Yup true. Only a blind man can


Any military operation will have collateral damage. Minimal in best case scenario but always there. It is no joke fighting an asymmetric war. PA has done a magnificent job, Assad in his way and for his people has done so too. He is liked by his people, majority of them anyways. And yes, Mid East was never any political country, so if you do not have a strong government then anarchy reigns supreme. Look at Iraq, Libya, Yemen etc. Everywhere the Muslim blood is flowing for greed. And being fuelled by fellow Muslims encouraged by others. US has tied down every country of middle east against each other.

GOP (and PA) have indeed done the right thing taking the bold step to remain neutral. The ramifications of thei conflict will be such that any country (Muslim Country) which indulges in it, will bear the brunt too. Kudos to GoP and PA!

 

[war&peace]

The best scenario for Pakistan is remain to neutral as much as possible but it is not that easy. However if ISIS is a terrorist organisation, Assad is a tyrant who and his father oppressed the majority for years and we can support any of them but Pakistan does not want to play an active role in toppling the regime either since we don't want another Libya. Furthermore all these political games in middle east are covered under the mist of ambiguity and no one is purely thinking about peace and every party has vested interest. Iran and Assad want to prolong the Shia rule while the others want to impose wahabi version on the people thus both side have illegitimate positions and we should not support any of them as a matter of principles. In addition, KSA has fuelled a lot of wahabism into Pakistan since 1980s and the extremism we are suffering is its direct consequence.

 

[MadDog]

So Pakistan will support Assad genocide of syrian people along with iran and russia

but as expected from this govt

If Pak were to support Saudi stance people would have called Nawaz Sharif a Saudi stooge , now that he along with pak army has reflected some maturity in Foreign Policy decision making, you're criticizing him for this !!!

Syria is not our concern, Pakistan has pivoted away from Middle East towards South East Asia, CPEC is a major game changer reflecting this change of mindset !!!

 

[HAIDER]

Here is why Pakistan support Syrian President Assad

" Syria supported Pakistan's case for Kashmir and refers to the illegal Indian occupation of Eastern Kashmir as "an open aggression "

. if today Pakistan support such a forced expulsion of Assad, tomorrow some other joint venture can ask Pakistan to surrender its nuclear asset or talk about balkanization of Pakistan.

 

[Xzok0]

Eh .. what of the million plus IDPs?

Source for you ... Fata operation puts children at risk - Newspaper - DAWN.COM (this is just one aspect, casualties you can google up in your own sources)



Oh the infantry actually does majority of work .... and in Syria? Airforce and Armor? Tanks not used in front line but in supportive fire? Eh, is your 'tank' the self propelled gun? Ever heard of mechanized warfare? Ah .. sorry I get it, theoretically with the elevation of Tank's main gun (approx. 25') and placing it on 20' berm, you can increase it's shell's range to 20 plus kms. But then it shall diminish the accuracy .... oh am sorry again you said your tanks are accurate .. so with gyro stabilizers and LASER/GPS designators I presume? That is amazing tech bro!

Operation Zarb-e-Azb: 29th June Developments - PKKH.tv




Yes I agree, intact infrastructure in operational area. Somehow this guy just does not get what you are saying. He must have served in some other Pakistan's army ...

Military laments ‘disappointing’ Afghan response - The Express Tribune



Yup true. Only a blind man can

Your problem here is the fact that we killed a few to save millions next time dont kill our lashkari devany on the border and let them in
o and once upon a time there was a kashmir where nobody died

 

[Hellfire]

Your problem here is the fact that we killed a few to save millions next time dont kill our lashkari devany on the border and let them in
o and once upon a time there was a kashmir were nobody died

And your problem here is that seeing the flags you jumped as if pricked with a spike! I am quoting the above gentleman who is ridiculing forcetrip's logical answer! One Pakistani ridiculing another who is making sense. Am here for the intellectual content, not to feed your vanity. Read the bloody sequence before shooting off .....

Read Post #72 of forcetrip and join the post .... and go satisfy your vanity somewhere else .... not interested in joining an issue with something that I agree. Have commended the actions by PA ALWAYS in FATA and Waziristan .....

 

[Xzok0]

And your problem here is that seeing the flags you jumped as if pricked with a spike! I am quoting the above gentleman who is ridiculing forcetrip's logical answer! One Pakistani ridiculing another who is making sense. Am here for the intellectual content, not to feed your vanity. Read the bloody sequence before shooting off .....

Read Post #72 of forcetrip and join the post .... and go satisfy your vanity somewhere else .... not interested in joining an issue with something that I agree. Have commended the actions by PA ALWAYS in FATA and Waziristan .....

i m glad that you have to come here for your intellectual trips and you have to quote people here to correct our mistakes did u bring your scholars with u as well who came here to learn

 

[Mrc]

Eh .. what of the million plus IDPs?

Source for you ... Fata operation puts children at risk - Newspaper - DAWN.COM (this is just one aspect, casualties you can google up in your own sources)



Oh the infantry actually does majority of work .... and in Syria? Airforce and Armor? Tanks not used in front line but in supportive fire? Eh, is your 'tank' the self propelled gun? Ever heard of mechanized warfare? Ah .. sorry I get it, theoretically with the elevation of Tank's main gun (approx. 25') and placing it on 20' berm, you can increase it's shell's range to 20 plus kms. But then it shall diminish the accuracy .... oh am sorry again you said your tanks are accurate .. so with gyro stabilizers and LASER/GPS designators I presume? That is amazing tech bro!

Operation Zarb-e-Azb: 29th June Developments - PKKH.tv




Yes I agree, intact infrastructure in operational area. Somehow this guy just does not get what you are saying. He must have served in some other Pakistan's army ...

Military laments ‘disappointing’ Afghan response - The Express Tribune



Yup true. Only a blind man can


Any military operation will have collateral damage. Minimal in best case scenario but always there. It is no joke fighting an asymmetric war. PA has done a magnificent job, Assad in his way and for his people has done so too. He is liked by his people, majority of them anyways. And yes, Mid East was never any political country, so if you do not have a strong government then anarchy reigns supreme. Look at Iraq, Libya, Yemen etc. Everywhere the Muslim blood is flowing for greed. And being fuelled by fellow Muslims encouraged by others. US has tied down every country of middle east against each other.

GOP (and PA) have indeed done the right thing taking the bold step to remain neutral. The ramifications of thei conflict will be such that any country (Muslim Country) which indulges in it, will bear the brunt too. Kudos to GoP and PA!

Boss syrian army controls 20 % of terroritory and has lost 2nd largest city aleppo 4 years ago....

Their military op was not against daesh but against own civilians....daesh cane few years later...

They have lost thousands if tanks (videos available) ...pak army lost confirmed 2...

Swat is open for tourists...foreign ones...

IDP ' s were part of evacuation strategy not due to indiscriminate bombardment...

IDP's from swat malakand upper dir lower dir bajaur north waziristan dara adam khel orakzai are already back in their homes ..most of from khayber and south waziristan (50%) have returned...
Pak never lost an army post manned by 10 soldiers vs most of cities and half of damascuss....

What are u comparing...
Truely blinding

There is no syrian army left ... most of fighting is done by mercenaries and iranian created militias....

Despite being bombed by nearly every country with an airforce; alasad is yet to clear demascuss

 

[TMA]

The interpretation of your eschatology is clearly flawed and as such NOT based on quran & sunnah. The fact that its flawed is proven by the fact that u support russian atrocities against syrian muslims just to fit your eschatological interpretation just like how ISIS does many unislamic acts to somehow fit their eschatological interpretation . Did u ever think abt that? People before u also had their flawed interpretations. U should read abt the siege of mecca in 1979.

The families of the 250+ dead syrian , victims of rape and chemical weapons would disagree with you. Why remain an ostrich when the truth is very clear to u ? Is it because it would go against your interpretation of eschatology?

If u didn't know the the chief conspirators with the british against ottoman was Hussein ibn Ali al-Hashimi , the sharif of mecca and NOT the ibn saud family. Though they took advantage of the political turmoil. Why r u only blaming the saudi regime. Btw won't u blame the bigot ataturk and the secular bureaucrats of the ottoman empire? The then ottoman caliph hardly had any control over the administration.

Yes secularism is a product of west and it resulted from their experience with a roman catholic Christianity and now they r highly irreligious and are on a crusade to spread their filth.

How do we know who is behind the chemical attacks or other atrocities? The rebels also have their hands covered in blood. It is not just Assad. Please can you point to the Russian atrocities. All I have been able to find are reports from (anti-Russian) media stating civilian deaths. Hardly unbiased sources.

Attaturk is also to blame. The Sharif of Mecca is also to blame. But the point is the House of Saud still committed the greatest backstabbing since they possess the Hejaz and had the oppurtunity to continue the Caliphate. The British played a double game by double crossing the Sharif - I suppose that served him right. The British did this as they were worried that the Sharif could re-establish the Caliphate, so they had picked another client who could be trusted to not do this! And they served the British then America so well!

I do not have the time to write extensively on this. My advice is to read Imran Hosein. The Caliphate, The Hijaz and the Saudi Wahabi Nation State

Please can you tell me the correct interpretation, if I have the wrong one?

 

[batmannow]

At this point, There is no alternative leader. Take libya for example. Did the toppled leader were able to unify country after Qazzafi demise ?

Assad ahs just become the Saddam of Syria. Just as Saddam was known as butcher of Shias, but was a necessary devil to keep the country unified. Assad will play a similar role

& if we compare most of the prapogated fake stories on BBC , CNN , FOX they claimed saadam was butcher , qadafi was a killer but what about those , who attacked Muslim states with , fake reasons like WMD s ?
Allies has killed more civilians if we compare both Saddam & Qaddafi ?
Bush & tony the liar are more criminals then even Hitler ?
The destruction which we are witnessing now in IRAQ & LIBYA & sirya is the allied mess , which can't be accepted any more ?

Boss syrian army controls 20 % of terroritory and has lost 2nd largest city aleppo 4 years ago....

Their military op was not against daesh but against own civilians....daesh cane few years later...

They have lost thousands if tanks (videos available) ...pak army lost confirmed 2...

Swat is open for tourists...foreign ones...

IDP ' s were part of evacuation strategy not due to indiscriminate bombardment...

IDP's from swat malakand upper dir lower dir bajaur north waziristan dara adam khel orakzai are already back in their homes ..most of from khayber and south waziristan (50%) have returned...
Pak never lost an army post manned by 10 soldiers vs most of cities and half of damascuss....

What are u comparing...
Truely blinding

There is no syrian army left ... most of fighting is done by mercenaries and iranian created militias....

Despite being bombed by nearly every country with an airforce; alasad is yet to clear demascuss

Friend half Aleppo is back siryan army , which is well supported by Russian air force ?
& a lot of land has been taken back , since Russian intervention in sirya ?
Even many NATO countries are fed up , with UK & USA + turkey + KSA sponsored , terrorism in sirya , WHICH IS CYRTAL CLEAR FACT ?

 

[Hellfire]

i m glad that you have to come here for your intellectual trips and you have to quote people here to correct our mistakes did u bring your scholars with u as well who came here to learn

Thanks. No not correcting anyone's mistakes, just joining in the discussions. And no, I have not got any of my 'scholars' around. And yes, it is an intellectual exercise. There is a wealth of experience here, plenty of well read and experienced people here. I have mine, you may have yours. And certainly one can learn a lot from interaction. Don't know about you, but if you see since when I have been a member, you will realize that I prefer reading what people write rather.

My suggestion remains, that please read the statement made in the context of the thread. If you are able to get what I am writing about, it shall be good. Thanks again.

 

[Hiptullha]

Any military operation will have collateral damage. Minimal in best case scenario but always there. It is no joke fighting an asymmetric war. PA has done a magnificent job, Assad in his way and for his people has done so too. He is liked by his people, majority of them anyways.

It's always hilarious seeing an out-of-touch Indian take a stance on something he knows nothing about.
You cannot compare Pakistani collateral damage to Assad's Nazi-inspired concentration camps or barrel bombings on civilian areas which have led to the death of almost 100,000 innocent civilians.

 

[batmannow]

Pakistan, already have ditched KSA and Iran on different occasions ...
once we are clear of in house mess and block the border of Afghanistan which the army is working on, we will be able to have stronger say on the Muslim world matters ..

I still cant forget the words of Palestinian guy here in London... He was like , we are looking towards Pakistan and we know things are hard for you guys as well in Pakistan , but we only have hope from Pakistan once they clear the mess in home and we want it to get clear soon, InShaAllah ...

I had a detailed discussion with him , he was like actually Palestine was sold by Arabs who we trusted as we were Arabs too, in addition we had alot of problems which put us in this mess .. but that time Pakistan was new country but now things are changing, Pakistan is the strong nation with strong army and we have only hope from Pakistan ..

These are the words of Palestinian guy ..

Same goes with the Syrian people , they know who is against them and created the mess in arab world .. they created the mess in Iraq with the Help of ISIS and pushed it into Syria just like they wanted to push it into Pakistan via Afghanistan but failed due to strong army in place .. Syria failed to stop that push as people thought we are going to be good without Assad ,but it was hijacked by trained ISIS guys...

i hope some of you get the point here...

& who created ISIS ?