Pakistan AESA Radar Hope

[dbc]

@ Dark Angel

You need to post the antenna diameter of both radars for them to stand in comparison for range.

Example:
Very advanced AESA radars can have as little range as 15~30km, e.g. AESA radar of AMRAAM 120D. It is a very capable radar no doubt, but very small antenna diameter means less detection range. Radars on Su30 have huge ranges because of large antenna and not necessarily because of best PESA tech (although everyone must admit that russion Zhuk and Israeli Elta radars are extremely high tech radars). You cannot just say hands-down that Elta is better since it has larger range. It might be that Elta just had bigger antenna.

You need provide us antenna diameter for both to complete your hypothesis.



@ duhastmish

AESA is so much sought after these days because of 4 main reasons (and several others which you can find out on your own).

1. LPI (Low-Probability-Intercept) ... meaning its extremely unlikely that F22 equipped with AESA will get detected just because of its own radar transmissions. For stealth or even semi-stealth (rafale, Eurofighter etc) LPI radar is a must, otherwise all cost that went into Stealth characteristics is moot. This also means that it is ECM and jamming resistant as well.

2. Multi Mode Simultaneous Scanning ... meaning the array can be partitioned on runtime to carry out different scanning/tracking tasks at different frequencies using different number of LRU/AESA-Elements at any given time. To get maximum range, you can always use entire array collectively in a single mode. (This is the major difference between AESA and PESA).

3. Non-Mechanical Directionality ... meaning you can search and track in an area of almost 120 degrees without moving array at all. When mechanical equipment is used, it can increase AESA detection to almost 270~300 degrees which is a huge advantage if someone is trying to shoot high off bore sight shots even at BVR ranges.

4. Extreme serviceability ... most radars have 200~400 hours MTBF ... while AESA has this in excess of thousand hours due to solid state electronics. It also facilitates repair of antenna since all elements in array are similar LRU (line replaceable units) and just be plucked out and plucked in to accomplish the task.


AESA rules ... but its quite complex technology, just getting into mainstream.

Regards,
Sapper

Nice Sapper, all true with one minor caveat not all AESA radars are low probability of intercept (LPI) to qualify the first side lobe must be smaller than the main lobe by at least -50db.

Edit: number 3 is true but..

 

[pakistantiger]

if jf-17 get eqquiped with AESA and/or f-16 then we can deny indian air superiorty qualtatively but not nuemericaly and thus having a qualitative airforce to deny any aggression and roul the skys good luck paf

 

[SaleemKhan]

I don't think Jf-17 is going to be equipped with AESA radars, because Jf-17 has small nose and no other nation had successfuly developed as advanced AESA as USA has. So even for our friend china AESA is not easy job and it will take some time. But hopefully J-10 will be equipped with AESA radars.

 

[Storm Force]

I think AESA radars are very important.

India will blow over $11 billion on MMRCA and the winner will be the one with the BEST in service AESA radar providing upto 50% TOT.

apg79 aesa radar and F18S/H is the leading contender for this reason.

 

[truefriend]

I don't think Jf-17 is going to be equipped with AESA radars, because Jf-17 has small nose and no other nation had successfuly developed as advanced AESA as USA has. So even for our friend china AESA is not easy job and it will take some time. But hopefully J-10 will be equipped with AESA radars.

common man your chinies frnd still in development stage of aesa radar
it will take years to make it...
and its not photocopy machine or some thing like that .. kiunhone banaya or vo next day tumhe de denge ... its a ling way to go ...
so if pakistan seriously think for aesa so go to some western country and ask them for Tot like INDIA

 

[araz]

common man your chinies frnd still in development stage of aesa radar
it will take years to make it...
and its not photocopy machine or some thing like that .. kiunhone banaya or vo next day tumhe de denge ... its a ling way to go ...
so if pakistan seriously think for aesa so go to some western country and ask them for Tot like INDIA

True friend.
The chinese already have an AESA contender ready.There are enough indicators for that. The question is whether it is any good, and that I cannot answer myself.However, people in the know will tell you it is a serious contender for both JF17 and FC20.
Your next question is probably goingto be that if this is the case why isPAF going around EU trying to trace an AESA radar. The answer is that PAF will try its best to get the biggest bang for the buck, and will pit one against the other before taking on a winner. With FC20 we are talking a delivery timeline of 2014-15, and if you think we will take on a plane without an AESA, well you must be joking.
Incidentally, Finnmechanica which is producing the radar for the gripen NG has had long term relations with PAF and we hold Licence production for quite a few grifo radars.
Hope it helps
Araz

 

[Mani2020]

True friend.
The chinese already have an AESA contender ready.There are enough indicators for that. The question is whether it is any good, and that I cannot answer myself.However, people in the know will tell you it is a serious contender for both JF17 and FC20.
Your next question is probably goingto be that if this is the case why isPAF going around EU trying to trace an AESA radar. The answer is that PAF will try its best to get the biggest bang for the buck, and will pit one against the other before taking on a winner. With FC20 we are talking a delivery timeline of 2014-15, and if you think we will take on a plane without an AESA, well you must be joking.
Incidentally, Finnmechanica which is producing the radar for the gripen NG has had long term relations with PAF and we hold Licence production for quite a few grifo radars.

Araz the problem is that gripen NG is contender for MRCA and if india selects it (although very thin chance) then i dun see PAF getting that radar and the problem not only ends here,The contender sleected for MRCA will have directly effect on PAF ,If the winner will be the french then we will b surely on the verge of loosing french avionics deal (though we already have lost to some extent)
And if Eurofighter2000 comes out to be the winner then Vixen Aesa radar will b on stake as india will not allow them to supply same radar to PAF which is coming with their MRCA at a cost of billions of dollars

 

[truefriend]

True friend.
The chinese already have an AESA contender ready.There are enough indicators for that. The question is whether it is any good, and that I cannot answer myself.However, people in the know will tell you it is a serious contender for both JF17 and FC20.
Your next question is probably goingto be that if this is the case why isPAF going around EU trying to trace an AESA radar. The answer is that PAF will try its best to get the biggest bang for the buck, and will pit one against the other before taking on a winner. With FC20 we are talking a delivery timeline of 2014-15, and if you think we will take on a plane without an AESA, well you must be joking.
Incidentally, Finnmechanica which is producing the radar for the gripen NG has had long term relations with PAF and we hold Licence production for quite a few grifo radars.
Hope it helps
Araz

if chinies aesa version is ready so why they dont applied on their and your planes ...
its in initial stage as i say ...i may take years .
its not necessary that this aesa have same standers as other country has

 

[Mani2020]

if chinies aesa version is ready so why they dont applied on their and your planes ...

Because its still in testing stage and they cant integrate it unless and untill testing phase is over
and as far as PAF is concerned PAF wants to fully evaluate all the option available so they can choose best out of them ,and as far as Chinese are concerned PAF dont have any unreliability problem with them they will provide us whenever we will need it

its not necessary that this aesa have same standers as other country has

And it is also not necessary that it does not have same standards as the western ones

 

[ANG]

Hi, the PAF needs to makes its decision independent of India's MRCA decision, as the IAF might be delaying its decision. I personally wish they stick to Chinese options as they are more reliable and more willing to transfer technology. Moreover, I highly doubt any Western country will transfer that level of technology to Pakistan (AESA radar technology). Thanks.

http://key.aero/view_news.asp?ID=1978&thisSection=military

 

[HAIDER]

AESA procurement for JF17 is underway since 2008.Most probably its coming in PAF in next few years. Here some quotes from different web sources.

In recent Ideas 2008 defense Expo in Karachi Pakistan, Pakistan Air Force was approached by different AESA radar makers with assurances that PAF will be able to choose and integrate freely what ever BVRAAM it chooses.

In another interesting development Chinese company, No 14 Research Institute / Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology (NRIET) which defeated the SELEX (Galileo Avionica) and is providing the KLJ-7 radar for current batch of JF-17 Thunder is also developing AESA radar to satisfy its customer. Chinese companies are working hard to provide a complete package deal to PAF that will involve improved version of SD-10 with increased range (comparable to AIM-120 C-5 AMRAAM, but it will not be ramjet powered like Meteor BVRAAM), new WVRAAM and AESA radar.

 

[araz]

if chinies aesa version is ready so why they dont applied on their and your planes ...
its in initial stage as i say ...i may take years .
its not necessary that this aesa have same standers as other country has

Did you lose your glasses in the loo? Read my post again. i have already pre empted and answered your post.Just because something is ready or installed does not mean that people start dancing on the streets thumping their chests.This is not the PAF and PLAAF way.
Araz

 

[araz]

Araz the problem is that gripen NG is contender for MRCA and if india selects it (although very thin chance) then i dun see PAF getting that radar and the problem not only ends here,The contender sleected for MRCA will have directly effect on PAF ,If the winner will be the french then we will b surely on the verge of loosing french avionics deal (though we already have lost to some extent)
And if Eurofighter2000 comes out to be the winner then Vixen Aesa radar will b on stake as india will not allow them to supply same radar to PAF which is coming with their MRCA at a cost of billions of dollars

Mani
My friend the thing that escapes people is that IAF cant possibly keep all the providers happy.As soon as the final choice is announced, the left out vendors will find other avenues to sell their wares. The implication of this is that an AESA will become available to PAF if it decides to go EU ways. As I said in my post, AESA will no longer remain novel tech in 3-5 yrs time and the number of vendors will rise as well as the quality of the stuff on the market. I think it is not the stuff on the market that i would be worried about but Pakistan's buying power.
As to India and what it will and will not allow, we have used common platforms from different sources before , so why cant we have an AESA from the same source? Case in point is Mig21s and Lama Helos. i think we need to give things a little bit of time to let the situation pan out. Also the west have a tendency to change packaging of their wares and sell them with differing names and specs. Who knows what we will have on offer in 2012-13!!!
Regards
Araz

 

[nomi007]

if u have money & patriotic leaders than every country can given u every type of weapon,where jf-17 concern this jet is big threat for Russians mig 7 su series jet & for mirage 2000 jet in future.that's why both countries try to destroy this project.we talk to Germans as well as Italians for advance equipments.look also in black market for advancement

 

[amardeep mishra]

Hi, the PAF needs to makes its decision independent of India's MRCA decision, as the IAF might be delaying its decision. I personally wish they stick to Chinese options as they are more reliable and more willing to transfer technology. Moreover, I highly doubt any Western country will transfer that level of technology to Pakistan (AESA radar technology). Thanks.

India undecided on MMRCA: key.Aero, Military Aviation

well my friend,you need to understand the fact that NO country transfers their key technology to any other country...those who are in this business understand how difficult is this term TOT....lol...
in any case,china will tend to keep the tech of compact AESA which can be fitted in a nose of diameter of about 600mm or so to themselves
no body will teach pakistan how to manufacture MMICs or the GaAs or GaN transistors used in the AESA architecture,
similar nobody will share the complex LNA technologies with pak,unless and untill they(pakistan) themselves do the R&D and come out with something substantial which is of any significance to the military