Pakistan AESA Radar Hope

[BaTTLe fIeLDeR...]

AESA technology is present with the US only

Wrong Dude.Vixen 500E & Vixen 1000E Radars of Selex are complete AESA radars with 500 & 1000 T/R modules respectively.Also the Zhuk AE radar of Mig-35 is known to be a full AESA.

These are ESA radars, which scan electronically using phased waves.

These type of radars are also called as semi AESA.Northrop grumman's SABR radar is an advanced radar of this type.There is a chance that may be in future PAF will get this radar on its F-16's through an upgrade program because it is specially designed for Retrofit of F-16's.

ESA radars are also present on Su-30 MKI,

Su-30 MKI's N011 BARS radar is complete PESA radar not ESA.

 

[jagjitnatt]

An AESA for JF-17 would be expensive, not much powerful, and won't benefit the plane much because:

- Its not that you just place in the radar and the upgrade is complete. A whole lot of change needs to be made. That is expensive, specially for a low cost plane. The whole aim for JF-17 was a low cost solution, that would be hampered.

- JF-17's nose is small and won't be able to accomodate a huge radar, so even if a smaller AESA is made, it won't that powerful and add the R&D costs for developing a new radar.

- JF-17 is a low cost plane and everything in it is low cost, right from the engines, radar, airframe, avionics, missiles, structural material etc. Even if you improve the radar, the rest of the things would be a bottleneck and then you would feel like upgrading them too, but that would be very expensive.

Its like how we experience in our daily life too.

JF-17 is the new Mirage III/5 for PAF and not the new F16. There would be a new high end for PAF. That is where all this investment will go. That is where an AESA would be required and would be effective.

 

[rizhussain44]

Wrong Dude.Vixen 500E & Vixen 1000E Radars of Selex are complete AESA radars with 500 & 1000 T/R modules respectively.Also the Zhuk AE radar of Mig-35 is known to be a full AESA.

Buddy, You are replying to a post that was posted in Feb 2006. Probably it was true at that time that no country other then US had an AESA radar.
That poster has been inactive since last 4+ years.

MKI's N011 BARS radar is complete PESA radar not ESA.

If I am not wrong PESA is a type of ESA radar.

 

[BaTTLe fIeLDeR...]

Buddy, You are replying to a post that was posted in Feb 2006. Probably it was true at that time that no country other then US had an AESA radar.
That poster has been inactive since last 4+ years.

Sorry.I missed the date

If I am not wrong PESA is a type of ESA radar.

ESA Radar

Electronically Scanned Array Radar: An electronically scanned array antenna can position its beam rapidly from one direction to another without mechanical movement of large antenna structures. Agile, rapid beam switching permits the radar to track many targets simultaneously and to perform other functions as required.

PESA radar.

A passive electronically scanned array (PESA), contrary to its active counterpart AESA, is a phased array which has a central radiofrequency source (such as a magnetron, a klystron or a travelling wave tube), sending energy into (usually digitally-controlled) phase shift modules, which then send energy into the various emitting elements in the front of the antenna. Passive Electronically Scanned Array - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The ESA radars can give limited capabilities of AESA such as AGILE BEAM SWITCHING.(In AESA's T/R modules do this job).SABR(Scalable agile beam radar)radar is similar type of radar. PESA's in contrary to ESA's dont have capability of AGILE/RAPID BEAMING. Got it??? If not then:Scalable Agile Beam Radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

 

[rizhussain44]

Sorry.I missed the date ESA Radar
PESA radar.
The ESA radars can give limited capabilities of AESA such as AGILE BEAM SWITCHING.(In AESA's T/R modules do this job).SABR(Scalable agile beam radar)radar is similar type of radar. PESA's in contrary to ESA's dont have capability of AGILE/RAPID BEAMING. Got it??? If not then:Scalable Agile Beam Radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

You are confusing the comparison of ESA vs PESA with the comparison of AESA vs PESA.
To what I understand ESA stands for "Electronically Scanned Array" and PESA is "Passive ESA" while AESA is "Active ESA".

The description of PESA that you have provided says the same "A passive electronically scanned array (PESA), contrary to its active counterpart AESA,..."

You are incorrectly concluding the following, no where it precisely says this, if it does please provide a reference so that I can check...

PESA's in contrary to ESA's dont have capability of AGILE/RAPID BEAMING"

 

[Dazzler]

AESA is not a US only domain any more as many countries including Russia are developing AESA examples. Yes, the yanks are the ones to have deployed this tech and used it way before any one around the globe but they will not remain sole operator in a couple of years. Some info on this development is that Grifo ESA derivative was first offered to PAF. We are interested but we need it to be integrated with sd-10s and this is not done so far. China is already working on Thunder AESA variant which is a serious competitor for the second batch radar. It will be a tough competition between Grifo ESA and KLJ-ESA for sure. More good news will come soon. The sad thing is, China might not give source codes of sd-10s to their competitor radar.

 

[gambit]

You are confusing the comparison of ESA vs PESA with the comparison of AESA vs PESA.
To what I understand ESA stands for "Electronically Scanned Array" and PESA is "Passive ESA" while AESA is "Active ESA".

True.

The description of PESA that you have provided says the same "A passive electronically scanned array (PESA), contrary to its active counterpart AESA,..."

To put it simply...The word 'passive' mean ALL array modules must be collectively activated, meaning they transmit/receive as one. The word 'active' mean EACH array module, singular, can be individually activated, or in distinct groups. In other words, one large AESA array can be divided into many smaller arrays. The process is called 'subarray partitioning'. To coordinate all subarrays the software is called 'subarray choreography'. If subarray software does not exist, then the AESA system is no better than its cousin, the PESA system. Another way of looking at the difference is that in PESA system, you count all 1000 modules as one large transmitter. In an AESA system, you count all 1000 modules as 1000 transmitters.

You are incorrectly concluding the following, no where it precisely says this, if it does please provide a reference so that I can check...

The PESA is just as agile, in theory, as the AESA. The issue is the software that create said agility and usually the PESA is slightly inferior in practice.

 

[farhan_9909]

what are the specification of vixen 500E radar.

IS it comparable to israely elta radar(LCA)

 

[BaTTLe fIeLDeR...]

You are confusing the comparison of ESA vs PESA with the comparison of AESA vs PESA.
To what I understand ESA stands for "Electronically Scanned Array" and PESA is "Passive ESA" while AESA is "Active ESA".

The description of PESA that you have provided says the same "A passive electronically scanned array (PESA), contrary to its active counterpart AESA,..."

You are incorrectly concluding the following, no where it precisely says this, if it does please provide a reference so that I can check...

It Is not AESA.ESA refers to that type of radar which is using Passive technologies to give capabilities of AESA... Types of Radars... NOTE: In this link,Reference of T/R modules is not present(which are basic components of an AESA radar) ... PESA: Passive Electronically Scanned Array - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia... COMPARE BOTH OF THEM

The Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) will be a full performance fire control AESA. SABR will offer all the advantages of an active electronically scanned multi-function array, but at significant cost savings. Designed to support next generation weapons and tactics, the SABR ensures the needed combat advantage over the adversary.

While designed initially to fit the F-16 with no structural, power or cooling modifications, the SABR is scalable to fit other aircraft platforms and mission areas.

Meets/exceeds operational requirements
•Multi-function/Multi-mission
•Increased Range
•Time Sensitive Precision Strike
•Data Link/Communications
•Interleaved Modes
Improves Reliability & Maintainability
•Commonality
•Decreased Life Cycle Costs
•AESA Array Maintenance
•Common/Open System Architecture for Future Growth Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR)

NOTE:Information about AESA's is present in different section of this site. In simple:ESA doesn't incorporate PHASE SHIFT MODULES

 

[jagjitnatt]

It Is not AESA.ESA refers to that type of radar which is using Passive technologies to give capabilities of AESA... Types of Radars... NOTE: In this link,Reference of T/R modules is not present(which are basic components of an AESA radar) ... PESA: Passive Electronically Scanned Array - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia... COMPARE BOTH OF THEM NOTE:Information about AESA's is present in different section of this site. In simple:ESA doesn't incorporate PHASE SHIFT MODULES

Nope dude. Rizhussain is right.

ESA stands for Electronically Scanned Array.
PESA is Passive Electronically Scanned Array.
AESA is Active Electronically Scanned Array.

AESA and PESA are types of ESA Radar. Normally when we say ESA, we are usually referring to PESA radar.

 

[rizhussain44]

BaTTLe fIeLDeR... - Buddy I ain't gonna argue on this anymore. Two more people have confirmed what I am trying to tell you. Gambit has explained the two types of radars in detail and Jagjitnatt has put it in the simplest words. Still if you want to stick to your views then as you wish.

 

[BaTTLe fIeLDeR...]

You are confusing the comparison of ESA vs PESA with the comparison of AESA vs PESA.
To what I understand ESA stands for "Electronically Scanned Array" and PESA is "Passive ESA" while AESA is "Active ESA".

The description of PESA that you have provided says the same "A passive electronically scanned array (PESA), contrary to its active counterpart AESA,..."

You are incorrectly concluding the following, no where it precisely says this, if it does please provide a reference so that I can check...

To put it simply...The word 'passive' mean ALL array modules must be collectively activated, meaning they transmit/receive as one. The word 'active' mean EACH array module, singular, can be individually activated, or in distinct groups. In other words, one large AESA array can be divided into many smaller arrays. The process is called 'subarray partitioning'. To coordinate all subarrays the software is called 'subarray choreography'. If subarray software does not exist, then the AESA system is no better than its cousin, the PESA system. Another way of looking at the difference is that in PESA system, you count all 1000 modules as one large transmitter. In an AESA system, you count all 1000 modules as 1000 transmitters.

The PESA is just as agile, in theory, as the AESA. The issue is the software that create said agility and usually the PESA is slightly inferior in practice.

BaTTLe fIeLDeR... - Buddy I ain't gonna argue on this anymore. Two more people have confirmed what I am trying to tell you. Gambit has explained the two types of radars in detail and Jagjitnatt has put it in the simplest words. Still if you want to stick to your views then as you wish.

For all of you here it is:

The Koyopo's and the Sokol's from Russia are considered as only semi-AESA and are said ot use more of PESA technologies (Passive electronically scanned).
Non-American AESA radar developments, page 1

Guys I am not saying different thing than you.You guys are correct on these terms that there are only two counterparts PESA&AESA.Yes they are but but these types of radars fall in types of radar:
Naval Fire-Control Radars
Airborne Fire-Control Radars
Spaceborne Radar Systems.
Military Air Traffic Control (ATC), Instrumentation and Ranging Radars
Simple Pulse Radar
Moving-Target Indication (MTI) Radar
Airborne Moving-Target Indication (AMTI) Radar.
Pulse Doppler Radar.
High-Range Resolution Radar.
Pulse-Compression Radar
Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR):
Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar (ISAR).
Side-Looking Airborne Radar (SLAR).
Imaging Radar.
Tracking Radar.
Track-While-Scan (TWS) Radar.
3-D Radar.
Continuous-Wave (CW) Radar.
Frequency-modulHigh Frequency Over-the-Horizon (HF OTH) Radar.
Scatterometer.
Precipitation Radar.
Cloud Profile Radar.
The two basic technologies of radars are AESA&PESA.The above mentioned are types of radars depending upon which technology they are using.If an ELECTRONICALLY SCANNED radar is giving full capabilities of AESA then it comes in category of AESA(Sabr radar)& if not then it will remain in PESA category. However there is no third counterpart of AESA&PESA.These types of radars just fall in Types of radars.

 

[duhastmish]

AESA RADAR IS TOO MUCH OVER HYPED !!!!

people who dont understand - radar go for this hype.

in current stage of development an AESA radar stand way behins PESA. and in some cases almost next to it.

 

[Dark Angel]

what are the specification of vixen 500E radar.

IS it comparable to israely elta radar(LCA)

Description: The Selex Galileo Vixen 500E is an X-band, compact, lightweight, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar for fighter and lead-in fighter trainer aircraft such as Aermacchi's M-346 jet. It has been designed to meet the full spectrum of fire control radar operational requirements, detecting, identifying, prioritizing and engaging targets both airborne or at sea/on the ground, whilst remaining resistant to radar countermeasures. The solid state transmitter/receiver modules array provides high reliability and a SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar) imagery resolution below 3 meters. Vixen 500E radar consists of three line replaceable units (LRUs), commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) components and uses an open architecture approach to make upgrades easy to implement without affecting the radar's software.
Specifications

Performance: Azimuth Coverage 120 ° +/- 60-degree, Max Detection Range 35 nautical mile (), Mean-Time Between Failures 1,000 hours

Other: Engaged Aerial Targets 10





Elta 2052



Against Vixen Engaging 10 Aerial Targets Elta an engage 64 targets

Vixen has arange of around 70 kms and elta has 150+ kms in A2A mode

 

[Sapper]

Description: The Selex Galileo Vixen 500E is an X-band, compact, lightweight, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar for fighter and lead-in fighter trainer aircraft such as Aermacchi's M-346 jet. It has been designed to meet the full spectrum of fire control radar operational requirements, detecting, identifying, prioritizing and engaging targets both airborne or at sea/on the ground, whilst remaining resistant to radar countermeasures. The solid state transmitter/receiver modules array provides high reliability and a SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar) imagery resolution below 3 meters. Vixen 500E radar consists of three line replaceable units (LRUs), commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) components and uses an open architecture approach to make upgrades easy to implement without affecting the radar's software.
Specifications

Performance: Azimuth Coverage 120 ° +/- 60-degree, Max Detection Range 35 nautical mile (), Mean-Time Between Failures 1,000 hours

Other: Engaged Aerial Targets 10





Elta 2052



Against Vixen Engaging 10 Aerial Targets Elta an engage 64 targets

Vixen has arange of around 70 kms and elta has 150+ kms in A2A mode

@ Dark Angel

You need to post the antenna diameter of both radars for them to stand in comparison for range.

Example:
Very advanced AESA radars can have as little range as 15~30km, e.g. AESA radar of AMRAAM 120D. It is a very capable radar no doubt, but very small antenna diameter means less detection range. Radars on Su30 have huge ranges because of large antenna and not necessarily because of best PESA tech (although everyone must admit that russion Zhuk and Israeli Elta radars are extremely high tech radars). You cannot just say hands-down that Elta is better since it has larger range. It might be that Elta just had bigger antenna.

You need provide us antenna diameter for both to complete your hypothesis.



@ duhastmish

AESA is so much sought after these days because of 4 main reasons (and several others which you can find out on your own).

1. LPI (Low-Probability-Intercept) ... meaning its extremely unlikely that F22 equipped with AESA will get detected just because of its own radar transmissions. For stealth or even semi-stealth (rafale, Eurofighter etc) LPI radar is a must, otherwise all cost that went into Stealth characteristics is moot. This also means that it is ECM and jamming resistant as well.

2. Multi Mode Simultaneous Scanning ... meaning the array can be partitioned on runtime to carry out different scanning/tracking tasks at different frequencies using different number of LRU/AESA-Elements at any given time. To get maximum range, you can always use entire array collectively in a single mode. (This is the major difference between AESA and PESA).

3. Non-Mechanical Directionality ... meaning you can search and track in an area of almost 120 degrees without moving array at all. When mechanical equipment is used, it can increase AESA detection to almost 270~300 degrees which is a huge advantage if someone is trying to shoot high off bore sight shots even at BVR ranges.

4. Extreme serviceability ... most radars have 200~400 hours MTBF ... while AESA has this in excess of thousand hours due to solid state electronics. It also facilitates repair of antenna since all elements in array are similar LRU (line replaceable units) and just be plucked out and plucked in to accomplish the task.


AESA rules ... but its quite complex technology, just getting into mainstream.

Regards,
Sapper