Pakistan Aeronautical Complex to joint-manufacture 48 Wing Loong II UCAV

[BHarwana]

@BHarwana
thank you for your precious time... I asked same question before.. I hope our military will counter soon..
i was hoping
1. if possible, jamming s400 radars like isrealis did (for sure with US help), they jammed russian origin radars in syria in 2007 attack (bcz they know codes of russian radars) and recetnly when they attacked syria entering briefly from turkish airspace. China may help as they have s400 (their s400 may be different though)
2. weapons like jsow, which radar signatures/speed etc is like a plane so SAMs are wasted on it..
3. ISI making a dedicated unit to identity the radar operators and take them out near war ....

all may be child fantasy as but "no dream is too big and no dreamer is small"

The problem with S-400 is that you cannot jam the RADAR so only solution is real life decoys for the system to consume and these 48 drones will make an air corridor for strikes on the system by sacrificing them selves. 48 drones means 3 battalions of S-400 can be taken out easily. It also means India has to keep the load to long range interception. For example 48 drones accompanied by 12 cruise missiles means the person operating the system will see death coming towards him.

 

[Osiris]

The problem with S-400 is that you cannot jam the RADAR so only solution is real life decoys for the system to consume and these 48 drones will make an air corridor for strikes on the system by sacrificing them selves. 48 drones means 3 battalions of S-400 can be taken out easily. It also means India has to keep the load to long range interception. For example 48 drones accompanied by 12 cruise missiles means the person operating the system will see death coming towards him.

Pray tell, why would IAF launch SAM at a slow moving drones, why wouldn't lAF fighters be scrambled to shoot down the drones?

 

[Safriz]

@BHarwana
thank you for your precious time... I asked same question before.. I hope our military will counter soon..
i was hoping
1. if possible, jamming s400 radars like isrealis did (for sure with US help), they jammed russian origin radars in syria in 2007 attack (bcz they know codes of russian radars) and recetnly when they attacked syria entering briefly from turkish airspace. China may help as they have s400 (their s400 may be different though)
2. weapons like jsow, which radar signatures/speed etc is like a plane so SAMs are wasted on it..
3. ISI making a dedicated unit to identity the radar operators and take them out near war ....

all may be child fantasy as but "no dream is too big and no dreamer is small"

Too early to devise any tactics. It will depend on where the Indians deploy the S-400 when received. They are not stupid enough to deploy the systems next doors to Pakistan as many Internet Defense experts are expecting.

 

[BHarwana]

Pray tell, why would IAF launch SAM at a slow moving drones, why wouldn't lAF fighters be scrambled to shoot down the drones?

Great idea well those slow moving drones can fly very low and decrease the detection range of S-400 and yes you are correct that IAF will use fighter but before the scramble hits the air cruise missile will be on top with drones. In whole you will detect them in the range of 150 km and by the time you are in air 48 drones = 384 targets because when those drones release their pay load it will be 384 targets for S-400 now that is difficult for even IAF. So using S-400 on drones is the best option for India.

 

[Safriz]

Pray tell, why would IAF launch SAM at a slow moving drones, why wouldn't lAF fighters be scrambled to shoot down the drones?

Because IAF top notch jets were scrambled to shoot down Pakistan "Baloons".
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...p-government-sources/articleshow/50744381.cms

 

[BHarwana]

@Osiris in the pic below you can see the pay load of wing loong and it is massive than other drones. S-400 is deadly but when you don't have pilots it become just an interceptor from being deadly.

 

[Safriz]

@Osiris in the pic below you can see the pay load of wing loong and it is massive than other drones. S-400 is deadly but when you don't have pilots it become just an interceptor from being deadly.

View attachment 503834

I guises Pakistan picked this instead of Turkish Anka because of more payload capacity and compatibility with Beidou.

 

[Osiris]

Great idea well those slow moving drones can fly very low and decrease the detection range of S-400 and yes you are correct that IAF will use fighter but before the scramble hits the air cruise missile will be on top with drones. In whole you will detect them in the range of 150 km and by the time you are in air 48 drones = 384 targets because when those drones release their pay load it will be 384 targets for S-400 now that is difficult for even IAF. So using S-400 on drones is the best option for India.

Dont you people tire of these fantasies. Anyways lets indulge your fantasy.

Your basic mistake is in believing that S400 will working alone in isolation , but in reality it will just be another part of multi layered air defence network.

Now what will be the components of this air defence network.

AWACS, Aerostat Radars, Surface based Radars, IAF fighters, S400 SAMs, Barak 2 SAMs, Spyder SAMs, Akash SAM and lastly Green Pine Swordfish radar along with AAD and PDV for missile defence.

At the fore front will be AWACS, which will detect your 48 drones as soon as they take off.

Aerostat Radars will pick up cruise missiles as well drones soon after launch.

At which point IAF fighters will be scrambled to take on the drones.

A drone flies at a speed of 200 Km per hour, A cruise missile at 800 Km / hr, where as fighter flies at speed of 2000 Km /hr.

If launched from just with in 100 Km inside Pakistan, A drone will take 1 hour to reach a target 100 Km inside India, but it will take only 10 minutes for fighter to reach the drone, but of course it can launch its AAM much before that.

A Su 30 MKI in a purely air defense configuration can carry 10 R-77(100 Km range) and 4 R73s (30 KM range), that is 14 missile per aircraft.

Guided by AWACs Just 4 Su -30 can bring down your entire fleet of 48 drones, within 15 minutes of takeoff and well within Pakistani airspace.

Now all that remains are your 12 cruise missiles, here you have multiple choices AAD, Barak or S400's 9M96E missile(which specializes in shooting down low flying and stealth objects. And Even if couple of missiles are able to strike their targets, the raid itself would be a failure.

@Osiris in the pic below you can see the pay load of wing loong and it is massive than other drones. S-400 is deadly but when you don't have pilots it become just an interceptor from being deadly.

View attachment 503834

Wing Loong is slow and big, it is a sitting duck for fighter or even long range SAM.

 

[BHarwana]

Dont you people tire of these fantasies. Anyways lets indulge your fantasy.

Your basic mistake is in believing that S400 will working alone in isolation , but in reality it will just be another part of multi layered air defence network.

Now what will be the components of this air defence network.

AWACS, Aerostat Radars, Surface based Radars, IAF fighters, S400 SAMs, Barak 2 SAMs, Spyder SAMs, Akash SAM and lastly Green Pine Swordfish radar along with AAD and PDV for missile defence.

At the fore front will be AWACS, which will detect your 48 drones as soon as they take off.

Aerostat Radars will pick up cruise missiles as well drones soon after launch.

At which point IAF fighters will be scrambled to take on the drones.

A drone flies at a speed of 200 Km per hour, A cruise missile at 800 Km / hr, where as fighter flies at speed of 2000 Km /hr.

If launched from just with in 100 Km inside Pakistan, A drone will take 1 hour to reach a target 100 Km inside India, but it will take only 10 minutes for fighter to reach the drone, but of course it can launch its AAM much before that.

A Su 30 MKI in a purely air defense configuration can carry 10 R-77(100 Km range) and 4 R73s (30 KM range), that is 14 missile per aircraft.

Guided by AWACs Just 4 Su -30 can bring down your entire fleet of 48 drones, within 15 minutes of takeoff and well within Pakistani airspace.

Now all that remains are your 12 cruise missiles, here you have multiple choices AAD, Barak or S400's 9M96E missile(which specializes in shooting down low flying and stealth objects. And Even if couple of missiles are able to strike their targets, the raid itself would be a failure.



Wing Loong is slow and big, it is a sitting duck for fighter or even long range SAM.

That is India's biggest problem how do you plan to make multi layered system using USA Israeli and Russian tech.
Back to point where have I said S-400 cannot take out a drone? Yes it can but shooting down slow targets which fly near terrain depresses you detection range. There is no system which can detect cruise missiles or drone at beyond 300 km and fire and control missiles system work after successful radar painting of the target.

I guises Pakistan picked this instead of Turkish Anka because of more payload capacity and compatibility with Beidou.

We chose wing loong because it has more payload capacity and pay load is more diversified than just few 10 km range laser guided missiles. Wing loong is a multi role uav with most stand of range for missiles.

 

[Knight Rider]

Loong II (Pterodactyl) UCAV is great counter to S-400 system. Not only is it deadly due its large payload capacity consisting of ALCMs,AAM etc but also its cost which is 1 million dollars per unit. Pakistan should build a 100 more after co-producing 48 with China.

It took only 1 million dollars to destroy 1 billion dollars. Lol Good thinking PAF Air chief and marshals.

Indians already started to fart hard and their chest thumping was high in the sky along with their Rafales and S-400s.

Dreams of total air superiority are crushed again.

 

[Osiris]

That is India's biggest problem how do you plan to make multi layered system using USA Israeli and Russian tech.
Back to point where have I said S-400 cannot take out a drone? Yes it can but shooting down slow targets which fly near terrain depresses you detection range. There is no system which can detect cruise missiles or drone at beyond 300 km and fire and control missiles system work after successful radar painting of the target.


We chose wing loong because it has more payload capacity and pay load is more diversified than just few 10 km range laser guided missiles. Wing loong is a multi role uav with most stand of range for missiles.

Aerostat Radars have a detection range of 500 KM, and they specialize in detecting of low flying objects, not to forgets AWACS.

And Even if Drone or cruise missile is detected 300 Km away. A cruise missile will have travel 300 KM to strike its target that is 23 minutes flying time.

And a drone will have fly over 200 Km to launch even a stand off weapon from 100 km away - that is 60 minutes flying time.

Where as fighter aircraft, that is already in the air can shoot down drone within 6 minutes of its detection.

 

[Safriz]

Aerostat Radars have a detection range of 500 KM, and they specialize in detecting of low flying objects, not to forgets AWACS.

And Even if Drone or cruise missile is detected 300 Km away. A cruise missile will have travel 300 KM to strike its target that is 23 minutes flying time.

And a drone will have fly over 200 Km to launch even a stand off weapon from 100 km away - that is 60 minutes flying time.

Where as fighter aircraft, that is already in the air can shoot down drone within 6 minutes of its detection.

Thats called area saturation and Pakistan can use plenty of sacrificial assets to get Indian assets busy.
Having a dozen cruise missiles and another dozen drones shot down to ranch a Billion Dollar enemy asset is nothing.

 

[Osiris]

Thats called area saturation and Pakistan can use plenty of sacrificial assets to get Indian assets busy.
Having a dozen cruise missiles and another dozen drones shot down to ranch a Billion Dollar enemy asset is nothing.

Since a single S400 system can launch 72 interceptors at the same time, you better have more than 72 cruise missile reaching S400 at the same time, to overwhelm its defenses.

And if you are gonna spend all you missile stocks, just to take out a single S400 system, what are you gonna do about rest of the targets ?

And Even is some cruise missiles are able to breach S400 defenses, what is the guarantee, they will be able to strike a S400 missile truck?

Remember the entire system is a mobile system can change it with position within seconds just by starting their truck engine and a cruise missile even if it misses by a few meters, its is useless.

Problem with your long range cruise missiles like Babur is, that they are not radar homing missiles, they need a stationary target with precise co-ordinates(which you will find out how ?) to strike a target.

 

[Knight Rider]

Since a single S400 system can launch 72 interceptors at the same time, you better have more than 72 cruise missile reaching S400 at the same time, to overwhelm its defenses.

And if you are gonna spend all you missile stocks, just to take out a single S400 system, what are you gonna do about rest of the targets ?

We will calculate the number of drones needed to counter each S-400 because Loong II is very cheap and S-400 are really expensive. Besides if the UAVs ran out of missiles, we will go kamikaze on the S-400 before it reload. Problem solved !!!!

 

[Osiris]

We will calculate the number of drones needed to counter each S-400 because Loong II is very cheap and S-400 are really expensive. Besides if the UAVs ran out of missiles, we will go kamikaze on the S-400 before it reload. Problem solved !!!!

And we will not launch, even single S400 missile to shoot down Wing long or for that matter any drone.

Instead fighter aircrafts armed with AAMs guided by AWACS and Aerorstat radars will be scrambled to shoot down these slow moving drones.