Pakistan-A real market for the Mirage 2000-9 ?

[Zhukov]

To amend that a little. The F-16s are our general purpose pounders. They are supposed to do the body punching. They are excellent bomb-trucks as well, the only issue is that we dont have enough of the general pounders(hence the need to make the JF a general pounder as well).

So if the list is to be revised. Lets put a list of missions that are flown and then assign them to the aircraft
View attachment 40336
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Now.

F-7PG = INTERCEPT, DCA(Defensive Counter Air, for a specific facility.. say Kahuta for e.g.) , Ambush-CAP, On call CAS.

The JF-17 = INTERCEPT, DCA, HAVCAP, BARCAP,Ambush-CAP, SEAD Strike, SEAD Escort(currently assigned to ROSE Mirages with MAR-1) , Pre-Planned CAS, On Call CAS, Anti-Ship. RESCAP

F-16 ADF= INTERCEPT, DCA, Ambush-CAP,HAVCAP, BARCAP, ESCORT, TARCAP, On-call CAS, Pre-Planned CAS,FAC, Interdiction,RESCAP

F-16 MLU/52 = SWEEP, INTERCEPT, DCA, Ambush-CAP,HAVCAP, BARCAP, ESCORT, TARCAP, On-call CAS, Pre-Planned CAS,FAC, Interdiction, Strike, Deep-Strike, DEAD, SEAD.

Now, while I certainly doubt the Mirage-2000-9 is going to come to Pakistan and see the Industry expert thing as a ploy by the French to get the MMRCA sped up and secure further Indian interest in these extra airframe for their M2k force. For the sake of this thread Ill add their possible roles.

M2K-9 = SWEEP, INTERCEPT, DCA, Ambush-CAP,HAVCAP, BARCAP, ESCORT, TARCAP, On-call CAS, Pre-Planned CAS, Interdiction, Strike, Deep-Strike, DEAD, SEAD. Anti-Ship

The M2K-9s are capable of performing almost all missions that the block-52 can but their effectiveness at each varies accordingly.

What most people fail to see is that these aircraft are not just the flying airframes; they encompass their spares and support along with weapons. Weapons that include the MBDA Mica system and others that have direct French involvement whose arms can be twisted by India over the MMRCA deal. Hence, these aircraft will be MORE of a hassle for us(in the oft chance that we do procure them) than the F-16s would be.

Spot on. Imagine all the infrastructure and training cost we will have to bear to acquire an entirely new platform. And the new weapons range. And that too a temporary stop gap measure. and i have serious doubts about Interceptor and air superiority capability of Mirage 2000.
As for its ground attack strike and anti ship roles, i believe JF17 will mature for those roles percectly in a few years
They dont listen to me. I thought i was the only one.

But i have too say those UAE mirages are up to date and modernize but the F16s available to us used are all blk15 mlus. no body will sell a used Blk52.

 

[nomi007]

news suggests that Islamabad is negotiating with Abu Dhabi for a possible purchase of UAE’s Mirage-2000-9 fleet. UAE is planning to replace its Mirage fighters with 30 American F-16E/Fs (in the near future). If Pakistan succeeds in acquiring these second-hand Mirage-2000-9s, it’ll become the only nation in the world to operate all Mirage variants (IIIs, Vs, 50s, and 2000s) side-by-side.

 

[Armchair]

Assuming:
1. The Mirages come for near free
2. They come with weapons and some spares
3. Come with UAE's simulators

Then:
1. Keeping them as semiactive reserves becomes possible
2. 40hrs per year on these planes will be cheap and reasonable.
3. You can compensate by having pilots stay current on a different aircraft such as the IDF-AF do.
4. These could be Rose Mirages, FT7s, JF17s, F7pgs.
5. This will not only add a viable punch but will provide PAF with unparrelled DACT, DACT that will attract many countries including Turkey and China who would be willing to pay hard $$$ for the opportunity.

Refusing them would be irrational. At worse you mothball them and keep them for a rainy day.

I agree this is most likely a ploy by the dastardly french to twist Indian arms...

 

[Manticore]

Is india going after these m2ks? Any chance of iaf having 100 m2ks should be curbed

 

[Kompromat]

news suggests that Islamabad is negotiating with Abu Dhabi for a possible purchase of UAE’s Mirage-2000-9 fleet. UAE is planning to replace its Mirage fighters with 30 American F-16E/Fs (in the near future). If Pakistan succeeds in acquiring these second-hand Mirage-2000-9s, it’ll become the only nation in the world to operate all Mirage variants (IIIs, Vs, 50s, and 2000s) side-by-side.

Source?

 

[ares]

Is india going after these m2ks? Any chance of iaf having 100 m2ks should be curbed

Even as the Rafale drama unfolded, India’s love affair with French fighters has continued. Around 2005, India bought ten Mirage 2000s, taking up the fleet to three squadrons. Negotiations were under way for buying 40 Mirage 2000-5 fighters from the UAE, but that stalled on the issue of price. Last year, the IAF signed a $2.4 billion deal to upgrade the Mirage 2000 fleet, extending its service life by at least another 15 years. And now, if the Rafale purchase goes through, the French seem here to stay.

Broadsword: The Rafale’s long flight to India

 

[sathya]

India would look to these UAE mirages only if rafale deal is not possible because of fund..
Considering India already upgrading mirage 2000 to this level at home, it wouldn't need to set up any new facility and bought weapons too...
Which may translate to advantage India... However I haven't heard of Indian IAF going for used air crafts ..

60 mirage 2009 with minimal updates and weapons will it be worth around 5 - 6 billion $ ?
I don't think it will be as cheap as PAF recent Jordan F 16 deal ..

 

[think@best]

India would look to these UAE mirages only if rafale deal is not possible because of fund..
Considering India already upgrading mirage 2000 to this level at home, it wouldn't need to set up any new facility and bought weapons too...
Which may translate to advantage India... However I haven't heard of Indian IAF going for used air crafts ..

60 mirage 2009 with minimal updates and weapons will it be worth around 5 - 6 billion $ ?
I don't think it will be as cheap as PAF recent Jordan F 16 deal ..

If PAF WANT / DECIDE to procure 2000-9, they will done it in 1-2 years at max. French A/C are too expensive as well as their maintenance & weaponry . U.A.E. can offer us even lowest than Jordan F-16, issue is with Weaponry and spares, which are toooo expensive but if we compare it with the capabilities of latest 2000-9 it will satisfy us.

 

[Storm Force]

If Rafale deal is Cancelled I THINK THE indians will get both the qatari & UAE mirages with hard cash even it cost $5 billion with upgrades & additional weapons they will do it.

And with UAE looking to recoup over $20m each per plane I THINK india will be a dream customer for them.

ARABS ARE LOYAL TO MONEY ONLY

 

[araz]

Is india going after these m2ks? Any chance of iaf having 100 m2ks should be curbed

I dont think Indian acquisition of any platform can be stopped by PAF. The fact and bitter truth is that in this world there are always 2nd options. Even if the Indians wanted to go for older M2Ks and couldn't get the UAE ones then there are French ones waiting to be acquired . The chances of the French dealing with you in the current climate is pretty small as compared to them dealing with the Indians. The last thing is that even if thè french did give you permission to acquire the UAE Planes will your task become any easier with the Rafales or Typhoons as your adversary. The answer has to be No.
Our solution lies in stopping all the Haram Khori and working hard to improve our economy. Once we have the money the rest becomes relatively easy. There are even then permutations that I wont bore you with which dont make our task any easier.
Araz

India would look to these UAE mirages only if rafale deal is not possible because of fund..
Considering India already upgrading mirage 2000 to this level at home, it wouldn't need to set up any new facility and bought weapons too...
Which may translate to advantage India... However I haven't heard of Indian IAF going for used air crafts ..

60 mirage 2009 with minimal updates and weapons will it be worth around 5 - 6 billion $ ?
I don't think it will be as cheap as PAF recent Jordan F 16 deal ..

At this rate I would much rather utilize the Bl.52 option and get 2 squadrons of old bl. 40s and MLU them for half the price. The more I look at this deal the more improbable it seems to me. 5-6 billion dollars spent rightly could give us a dream AF. Better still I would buy some J10s for the same role.
Araz

 

[Luftwaffe]

At this rate I would much rather utilize the Bl.52 option and get 2 squadrons of old bl. 40s and MLU them for half the price. The more I look at this deal the .ore improbable it seems to me. 5-6 billion dollars spent rightly could give us a dream AF. Better still I would buy some J10s for the same role.
Araz

Hi, do you have any idea how much a single old F-16A was MLUd for along with spares due to future fear of sanctions? I think there is possibility of more F-16 and these Mirages and a long term development of JF-17...don't think in current scenario J-10s would be ever procured not in near future but than why would PAF go for J-10 post 2020 when JF-17 would be matured?.

 

[Donatello]

news suggests that Islamabad is negotiating with Abu Dhabi for a possible purchase of UAE’s Mirage-2000-9 fleet. UAE is planning to replace its Mirage fighters with 30 American F-16E/Fs (in the near future). If Pakistan succeeds in acquiring these second-hand Mirage-2000-9s, it’ll become the only nation in the world to operate all Mirage variants (IIIs, Vs, 50s, and 2000s) side-by-side.

Not really, there is the Mirage F1 and then the Mirage IV Nuclear bomber.

 

[fatman17]

stranger things have happened however the IAF is desperate to conclude the Rafale deal. due to cost increases, it could reduce its order. so at this time they may not be interested in the M2K as it is only available when the UAE F-16s are delivered. if my memory serves me right LM has the Omani and Iraqi order on its assembly line before it starts the UAE order.
as far as PAF goes, at best it would go for 1 SQN worth of M2K's to augment its 'night strike' capability. so at USD20m per we are looking at $400m and with the army in gregarious mood (funding the Jordanian F-16s) this is a doable. training and infrastructure will not be an issue as many PAF pilots serve on deputation with the UAE.

 

[Frogman]

Is it a real news that Pakistan is interested in buying Mirage-2000s from UAE? If yes then PAF will also buy Egyptian and Qatri's ones as well.

Egypt would unlikely sell its M2Ks. There is strong speculation that Egypt is going for the UAE's M2K-9s and it would certainly make sense given that Egypt is most likely going to upgrade its M2Ks in France and already has the infrastructure to accommodate the aircraft along with a growing military relationship with France after a lapse during the Mubarak era.

Link for the plan to upgrade EAF M2Ks: Mirage : Thales sur la piste d'un mégacontrat en Egypte

 

[fatman17]

The United Arab Emirates ordered 20 Mirage 2000-9 and 12 Mirage 2000-9D aircraft, customised versions of the Mirage 2000-5, delivered between 2003 and 2007.