Pakistan 5th Generation Fighter Possibilities

[abdulbarijan]

A scale-down model of J-21 was unveiled by the 601 Institute at the first International UAV Innovation Grand Prix held in Beijing in September 2011. It was first rumored in April 2011 that 601/SAC are developing a 4th generation medium multi-role stealth fighter as J-21. The aircraft has a conventional design featuring twin engines and DSIs similar to both American F-22 and F-35. The prototype could initially be powered by the 8.5t class WS-13 turbofan but later by the new 9.5t class "medium thrust" engine. A full-scale metal model may have been built in early 2011. The first prototype has been under construction since late 2011. First flight was projected to be in September 2012. J-21 is expected to be promoted at the international market as well as a low-cost alternative to American F-35.

Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force

 

[Bobby]

A scale-down model of J-21 was unveiled by the 601 Institute at the first International UAV Innovation Grand Prix held in Beijing in September 2011. It was first rumored in April 2011 that 601/SAC are developing a 4th generation medium multi-role stealth fighter as J-21. The aircraft has a conventional design featuring twin engines and DSIs similar to both American F-22 and F-35. The prototype could initially be powered by the 8.5t class WS-13 turbofan but later by the new 9.5t class "medium thrust" engine. A full-scale metal model may have been built in early 2011. The first prototype has been under construction since late 2011. First flight was projected to be in September 2012. J-21 is expected to be promoted at the international market as well as a low-cost alternative to American F-35.

Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force

Dont by China product too much...they are cheap in price and quality......

 

[farhan_9909]

Dont by China product too much...they are cheap in price and quality......

If china's product are inferior with a more experiance in aircrafts manufacturing compare to India

than imagine where does india stand(LCA)

 

[Ammyy]

If china's product are inferior with a more experiance in aircrafts manufacturing compare to India

than imagine where does india stand(LCA)

Let forget Russian copy what else they sell this now ???

 

[nescafe]

Xishan,

In my previous posts, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt----but your comments about---

your quote ", I mean Jf would not be equiped with pakistani engine(how can it be when there i no plan fot it)."

You seem to have no idea what a jet engine is and what it takes to manufacture one---I firmly believe that you are mis-stating the facts about your job and qualifications---the pakistani universities donot have the ability to manufacture a simple internal combustion engine for a motorcycle---.

To manufacture a successful car engine is a 1 billion to 5 billion dollar project---talk about a jet engine for your frontline fighter---.

Webby---I believe that it is good to have more members---but you need to vette them a little better, before they start posting---or use the technique employed by *********** forum---' if they find out that you are not the pro that you state to be---it is O T D.

All our senior staff N engineers were doing their phd's in the late 50's and 60's and working in the u s and europe gaining useful experience----on a scale of 1----10 where the jet engine manufacturing technology maybe rated at a 10, the N technology would be rated at a 4 or a 5.

i studied electrical engineering from UET Lahore. the universities are a complete mess. the best students have no project management, but,

there is a lot of potential, and students can work literally till their last drop of blood if there is any INCENTIVE or motivation or ENTHUSIASM of attaining a target.

how ever, a jet engine is one of the most complicated things ever produced. we need to involve smart innovative corporations and supply them with endless money for many years and let them design something. i think its more about passion rather then discipline. if it would have been about mathematics only, the chinese would have done it.

we have to look for people with passion. people who takes science as art. thats how french and germans have performed. let good passionate people do work for a longer peeriod of time wihtout any worry of finance and results will come for sure.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Dont by China product too much...they are cheap in price and quality......

There's a difference between products of AVIC and those made for walmart.
Going by that Logic LCA should be the same quality as Indian products we find in flea market.

 

[soldierofallah]

Look guys.... we should try to develope our jet engines but at the same time we must give our economy a decade or more, we need to focus on our economy if we want to keep a military balance in asia and if we want to start these huge projects.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I am working for chrysler now---which also sells dodge---ram trucks--jeep. Dodge is coming up with a new car--Dodge Dart. I believe the engine size is 1.8L---it is a small car---. This engine is a world engine----named as such because it is being used by three different manufacturers. The reason for using this shared engine is that a mega goliath like chrysler cannot afford to build itself a brand new engine in this day and age. The costs is in billions----in production and research.

Today---unless you are china---you have to be a GAMBLER to invest into building an engine on your own---and as china is building a few of them----it would be appropriate for pakistan to attach itself to one or two of those programs. In order for you to start somewhere----you need to have a solid base of metalurgical engineering---unltil and unless you don't have a world class manufacturing and testing facility for alloys---all your engineering projects related to manufacturing high performance are a waste----.

For pakistan to invest into these projects on their own is like gambling on RACE HORSES----you never come up ahead---you know why----the bets are stacked as such---you can't win against the house.

Any of you---who say again---we need to develop a jet engine---needs to start up from the begining and explain the setup---what it takes---how to do it---what are the guidelines---what are the resource----and not that this university student did that.

Otherwise the mods need to clean up----------.

 

[raavan]

Hi,

I am working for chrysler now---which also sells dodge---ram trucks--jeep. Dodge is coming up with a new car--Dodge Dart. I believe the engine size is 1.8L---it is a small car---. This engine is a world engine----named as such because it is being used by three different manufacturers. The reason for using this shared engine is that a mega goliath like chrysler cannot afford to build itself a brand new engine in this day and age. The costs is in billions----in production and research.

Today---unless you are china---you have to be a GAMBLER to invest into building an engine on your own---and as china is building a few of them----it would be appropriate for pakistan to attach itself to one or two of those programs. In order for you to start somewhere----you need to have a solid base of metalurgical engineering---unltil and unless you don't have a world class manufacturing and testing facility for alloys---all your engineering projects related to manufacturing high performance are a waste----.

For pakistan to invest into these projects on their own is like gambling on RACE HORSES----you never come up ahead---you know why----the bets are stacked as such---you can't win against the house.

Any of you---who say again---we need to develop a jet engine---needs to start up from the begining and explain the setup---what it takes---how to do it---what are the guidelines---what are the resource----.

Otherwise the mods need to clean up----------.

Ahem...China and India...very soon with help from Snecma, we will have our own jet engine

 

[killerx]

we definitely need 5gen fighter jet by 2015 for sure and JF17 should be 300 by that time including 50 J10Band JF17 lock 1/2/3 after that need 100 5gen fighter jet

 

[abdulbarijan]

 

[SBD-3]

J-23 Airsuperiority Fighter (Courtsy Pervaiz Shamim Sahib)

 

[Genghis khan1]

 

[Super Falcon]

With current PAF think tank no hopes till 2030

 

[DrWatson775]

If you do a bit or research you will find out that any such Turkish program is going to have significant input from other western countries/companies including but not limited to engine from the US(P&W or GE) or Eurojet, other input from SAAB(Sweden) and BAE(UK) and it would not be a surprise if the AESA on this plane is procured from overseas as well. While one would want to advance local industry producing radars; if a cheaper and better offer of AESA is made from overseas I dont see why that would not be integrated.

SO, this is not a viable solution to PAFs 5th gen fighter requirement in the future. A plane that relies so much on input from countries that have previously repeatedly refused to sell defence equipment to Pakistan should be a BIG HIGH-FLYING RED FLAG if we are to learn anything form the 90s fiasco(due to which we are still operating Mig-21 variants with no BVR capability).

I am pretty sure someone will bring this up again in a few days/weeks.