Pak Rejects Indian Proposal to Declare Nuclear Doctrine

[anonymus]

It isn't the need it is about the capability, how can you say that Pakistan don not have a second , third or fourth strike capability. Pakistani nukes are already more in number than india (as reported in all media and intelligence reports). Pakistan already have delivery systems through ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, air crafts and other means. With an extensive network of underground tunnel and deep bunkers for nukes, Y do you think that Pakistan won't reply after first strike in case of (God Forbade) any nuclear war.

And easily destroyable also.And don't forget that your enemies(India or Nato) would have absolute air superiority so chances that your missiles would be destroyed while preparing to be launched is high.

And you are of the view that Pakistan will sit idle after any such missadventure.

What if a country having missile defence system decide to take out your nukes with first strike?

A missile defence system is not perfect and cannot cope with large number of missiles coming towards it.So what if your enemies decide to degrade your nuclear capability with first strike survived your degraded response under it's nuclear shield.

Dude ground based nukes are considered to be the safest in the world. As the technologies for detection of submarine and means to counter them have under gone massive advancement in past two decades, it is comparatively much easier to detect and destroy a nuclear armed Submarine which is all alone in the open sea.

True for conventional SUBS but what about nuclear? They could remain submerged for months at end.You wont even know where it is.A nuclear SSBN could launch a missile toward pakistan from pacific.How would you detect something which is beyond reach of your detectors.

I hope they sent an empty missile with a note attached towards Dehli. I think that would have sent the message.

You must be joking.
It is impossible to tell difference between a Nuclear tipped or conventional missile.A Ballistic missile fired towards Delhi would lead to nuclear strike on pakistan.This is one of important reason to declare nuclear doctrine as in absence of one India would assume worst and act accordingly.The advantage that India has due to a declared doctrine is that if India fires a missile towards a weapon depot you can be sure that it contain conventional warhead.

India will possess neither the intelligence capability nor the military capability to take out all of Pakistan's nukes in a preemptive strike before Pakistan can respond, in the foreseeable future.

Heck, even the US cannot guarantee taking out all of Pakistan's nukes before a Pakistani nuclear retaliation regionally ...

But Enough so that the rest are intercepted by missile defence.

The Navy Strategic Force Command or NSFC will deploy nuclear weapons at sea, as the sea-part of the Triad - which will be part of our second/third strike reserve.

Are you planning to put nukes on Conventional SUB?
Do you have SLBM's?

Pakistan's nuclear doctrine is to attack first if we feel any threat to our existence we will launch all nukes to destroy enemy completely first its open secret , yet not declared by GVT but any one can understand its simple.

How would you conceal such a large movement and fuelling of your missiles from Satellites?

 

[Thorough Pro]

yep and so will india in retaliation
now some pakistani will tell me that there will be no india left for retaliation
and i say you would be stupid if you think important persons like president,pm,generals,etc will be sitting ducks,they would be moved to a safer place which will ensure their survival and hence the eminent retaliation

The only thing these important persons would be able to fire if they survived would be noisy and stinky, It is only common sense to attack the attacking arm.

 

[harshad]

The only thing these important persons would be able to fire if they survived would be noisy and stinky, It is only common sense to attack the attacking arm.

are you serious

 

[Malik Usman]

Amazing Indian Media............Fully propoganda article...............the reality is Indians refuesed to cooperate for civil nuclear sector with Pakistan.............coz they don't want International community help Pakistan in civil nuclear sector......

 

[Thorough Pro]

You must be joking.
It is impossible to tell difference between a Nuclear tipped or conventional missile.A Ballistic missile fired towards Delhi would lead to nuclear strike on pakistan.This is one of important reason to declare nuclear doctrine as in absence of one India would assume worst and act accordingly.The advantage that India has due to a declared doctrine is that if India fires a missile towards a weapon depot you can be sure that it contain conventional warhead.

If Pakistan or India ever go to war again, It will be alll out DO or Die, we will not make the mistake of firing conventional missiles and get nuclear in exchange. hint...hint...

 

[IceCold]

We are not increasing the stock pile to guarantee our security, rather your TOTAL destruction.

I suppose you mean India's total destruction in case you haven't noticed my flags. Strictly speaking from Pakistan's point of view, 3~4 nuclear strikes are more then enough to send India back to stone age unless you want the whole region nothing but a huge pile of radio active waste and when i say the whole region it does not just include India and Pakistan but other countries as well who will be effected by radioactive clouds whereever the winds take them China, Iran etc.

 

[IceCold]

But Enough so that the rest are intercepted by missile defence.

If you really believe you can intercept Pakistani missiles by this so called shield of yours, then my friend you seriously live in a fools paradise. Because for 1 no country not even the mighty US of A with all its technology might has come up with a successful interceptor, i highly doubt India can and even if we agree for argument sake that the Indians can pull this one off, even then the other side has many cards up its sleeves, MIRV for example.

 

[anonymus]

If you really believe you can intercept Pakistani missiles by this so called shield of yours, then my friend you seriously live in a fools paradise. Because for 1 no country not even the mighty US of A with all its technology might has come up with a successful interceptor, i highly doubt India can and even if we agree for argument sake that the Indians can pull this one off, even then the other side has many cards up its sleeves, MIRV for example.

You should have read complete post.
I didn't said that India could Intercept everything if pakistan decides to fire all it's missile at once but an attenuated strike and have also stated that missile defence shields have limitations.

It is a scenario which Pakistan uses tactical nuke.In that case India could reply with attack on pakistani nuclear instalments and survive the nukes which are left under missile defence.

And India and US has succesfully tested IRBM Interceptor.And US has problem dealing only with MIRV'd ICBM's.

 

[AUz]

And easily destroyable also.And don't forget that your enemies(India or Nato) would have absolute air superiority so chances that your missiles would be destroyed while preparing to be launched is high.

Here is another kid with less than 150 posts trying to act as if he some how "knows" anything about military and strategic issues

IAF would have "absolute air superiority" over Pakistani skies? This "absolute air superiority" would be achieved within what time frame , my dear future bharti general?

What if a country having missile defence system decide to take out your nukes with first strike?

Most welcome.

A missile defence system is not perfect and cannot cope with large number of missiles coming towards it.So what if your enemies decide to degrade your nuclear capability with first strike survived your degraded response under it's nuclear shield.

Oh wow...I never knew that

True for conventional SUBS but what about nuclear? They could remain submerged for months at end.You wont even know where it is.A nuclear SSBN could launch a missile toward pakistan from pacific.How would you detect something which is beyond reach of your detectors.

Fighting a head-on war against United States in useless. Don't worry we won't.

OR you are saying that some bharti mata's navy would launch missiles from pacific ocean?

You must be joking.
It is impossible to tell difference between a Nuclear tipped or conventional missile.A Ballistic missile fired towards Delhi would lead to nuclear strike on pakistan.This is one of important reason to declare nuclear doctrine as in absence of one India would assume worst and act accordingly.The advantage that India has due to a declared doctrine is that if India fires a missile towards a weapon depot you can be sure that it contain conventional warhead.

oooooohhoooo really?

You are a good entertainer .... There exists a thing called strategic ambiguity ....Don't invade Pakistan,we are all good. Try to invade Pakistan ................. y o u a re i n a h u g e m e s s.

Now keep dreaming ...we all saw that barking dogs seldom bite. In early 2000s ...Pakistan was at its WEAKEST against India and India was at its STRONGEST against Pakistan...heck many of our planes didn't even have ejecting seats for goodness sake !!!! Yet bharti army didn't dare to attack ...lost somewhere around 700+ personal at the border and PULLED BACK unconditionally ...woof ! done ! no more bullsh!t ...We know what bhartis are capable off....There is very less chance of an all-out war b/w Pakistan and bhartimata....So relax buddy and drink milk or lasi and watch Don 2 .....

Are you planning to put nukes on Conventional SUB?
Do you have SLBM's?

Nuclear cruise missiles ...work is already underway..didn't you watch the last two launches of Babur cruise missile?

How would you conceal such a large movement and fuelling of your missiles from Satellites?

Many of Pakistan's top line missiles are solid fueled...Secondly, these points are childish... Military planners on the both side are well aware of other's capabilities...no war is gonna happen anytime soon...We all saw what happened on "surgical strikes"

 

[IceCold]

You should have read complete post.
I didn't said that India could Intercept everything if pakistan decides to fire all it's missile at once but an attenuated strike and have also stated that missile defence shields have limitations.

It is a scenario which Pakistan uses tactical nuke.In that case India could reply with attack on pakistani nuclear instalments and survive the nukes which are left under missile defence.

And India and US has succesfully tested IRBM Interceptor.And US has problem dealing only with MIRV'd ICBM's.

Just because i highlighted a single entry in your post does not mean i haven't read the whole thing. The Idea of Pakistan firing all its nuclear weapons is insane to begin with. Why would we do that. I raised the same point with my fellow Pakistani colleague.
And in case Pakistan fires a tactical nuke, it will be well aware of the position it launched and the retaliation from the Indian side and a counter response to that. Firing a tactical nuke on incoming Indian formations in our own territory is not the same as firing one on Delhi but if new delhi wants to take that in the same context, then rest assured we will be ready for an Indian response and a counter response to that before the ABMs even get the chance to intercept.
And successfully testing is not the same as successfully deployed and whats the success rate? Any Idea? Also when boosting about ABM systems one should not forget that US when fielding such systems had the Russians in mind where the missiles would take at least half an hour to reach the other side, but what about the time between India and Pakistan which is around 3 minutes or even less in some cases.

 

[ares]

Dear how did you come to this conclusion.
Except our NCA, no other country has any idea about Pakistan's nuclear doctrine, So how can you point out fundamentals flaws when you don't even know our nuclear doctrine. Your whole arguments is based on 'X Y Z' assumptions and hypothesis.

It isn't the need it is about the capability, how can you say that Pakistan don not have a second , third or fourth strike capability. Pakistani nukes are already more in number than india (as reported in all media and intelligence reports). Pakistan already have delivery systems through ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, air crafts and other means. With an extensive network of underground tunnel and deep bunkers for nukes, Y do you think that Pakistan won't reply after first strike in case of (God Forbade) any nuclear war.


And you are of the view that Pakistan will sit idle after any such missadventure.


Dude ground based nukes are considered to be the safest in the world. As the technologies for detection of submarine and means to counter them have under gone massive advancement in past two decades, it is comparatively much easier to detect and destroy a nuclear armed Submarine which is all alone in the open sea.

Ability to launch second strike emanates from the countries ability to survive initial nuclear strike.
Due your geographical limitations ..lack of strategic depth and complete lack of sea based nuclear weapons...your nukes are vulnerable to preemptive enemy strike.

Land based nukes and launchers(especially silo based weapons) are extremely vulnerable preemptive strikes.
Submarine launched nukes are the only proven way towards assured second strike capability.
An Indian nuclear submarines(when deployed) will have the ability to target Pakistan even from southern tip of of Africa or even
South China sea.(well out of reach of Pakistani submarine hunters).

On top of it submarines are least detectable nuclear carrier as the nuclear radiation given by the warhead(which can be picked by satellite or even over flying air crafts) are masked by the sea.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Submarine launched nukes are the only proven way towards assured second strike capability.

Here, these submarines can launch nuclear-tipped cruise missiles that can hit targets thousands of kilometers away.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-...-class-submarines-china-2-type-054a-ffgs.html

And there are other good ways of increasing second-strike capabilities, such as road-mobile ballistic missiles and large networks of underground tunnels.

 

[DV RULES]

International pressure on Pakistan usually masked by these negotiation from Indian side so their demands are clear signal from main party. Until World will not treat Pakistan equal as other nuclear power and will not provide facilities given to India or other nuclear capable countries; there should not be declaration of any doctrine. This discriminating behaviour will result nothing but give encouragement Pakistan to make its WMD status stronger with increase of nuclear stockpile (It's our need).

We are standing against doctrine of attack and pick nukes and doctrine ought to be bring Pakistan in equal row of nuclear states.

 

[ares]

Here, these submarines can launch nuclear-tipped cruise missiles that can hit targets thousands of kilometers away.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-...-class-submarines-china-2-type-054a-ffgs.html

And there are other good ways of increasing second-strike capabilities, such as road-mobile ballistic missiles and large networks of underground tunnels.

These are just rumours ..no actual deal has been signed ..and if and when deal does get signed ..

There is one in a million chance, that China(which claims it will adhere to MTCR even though its not an original signatory) will violate the treaty and invite international condemnation and American and Indian tit for tat response ie arming Chinese enemies with long range missiles and arm them with missiles ranges over of 300 Kms

 

[ziaulislam]

Read his post again...He is saying PAKISTANIS and not government.


and you were saying Indians are brainwashed??? In 1947-48 Kashmir was neither part of Pakistan nor India...You need to educate yourself on this matter before writing on it...



Now i am feeling bad for hitting the reply button before reading the entire post in one length...Lesson's learned for future... Rest of the post ignored for obvious reasons...

---------- Post added at 12:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 AM ----------



I don't think there can be any possibility of taking out all the nukes and that is true for every single country in the world...However there is a reason countries invest in TRIAD, no??? The point is a good nuclear blow backed by a decent intelligence can severely limit the capability of Pakistan to respond back in a manner which she would have otherwise...

as i said before we definetly have an air delivery system through airforce and movable land based systems..
what we dont know and it may be possible as per rumors is that our agosta subs may be equipped with babur cruise missle which in turn is capable to carry nukes.