Pak plans to seek USD 15 bn in new loans to pay external public debt

[Blacklight]

My only criticism of him is his rhetoric pre-election and misleading people about what the first few years post-2018 would be like. I'm a nobody sitting at my desk and I saw this coming a mile away, he has teams of supposedly competent people, either they didn't inform us properly or they couldn't see the obvious.

Brother, this is the most dissapointing part, of this whole "tabdeeli."

 

[AZ1]

Peshawar bus project cost goes up to Rs70.7 billion

That is also bad project and should not be done in first place. Rather we should have invested all money in dams or some other useful project which could bring $. Someone should also file case on this and grab the culprit even if its from pti or if its IK

 

[Flight of falcon]

In simple terms, this new round of financing (taking loans) is not that important. What's important is that every few years or so, or at least 1-2 times per election cycle, Pakistan goes to the IMF, other multilateral lenders, or friendly countries for a bailouts. Nothing new here with IK's government.

Back in 2016 and before, I remember seeing reports from the IMF saying PKR is overvalued, trade/import balance is concerning (what we call balance of payments). Basically, Pakistan needs to dollars in order to trade, in order to buy goods (imports), and in order to earn dollars, you need to sell goods in dollars abroad (exports). You can also earn dollars in the form of investments, remittances etc. Pakistan has many times faced a crisis of too much imports and ever weakening exports. That's the crux of our problem, and unfortunately IK can't, and shouldn't be expected to change it overnight. We need long term changes and correct conditions, short term the government is doing what it has to.

You ask what this means for the common man, unfortunately, I have no good news. It means a less growth, less employment prospects, higher prices, and much higher taxes, this cycle will continue for a while. But like I said, this government has no choice, upcoming budget will be a really tough one. Awam has been hit recently with much higher taxes, record inflation and weak growth/employment. IMF is going to demand more tax increases, federal government will have to find savings (less expenditure) all while meanwhile the military is asking for more money for necessary national defence, all while covid is putting downward pressure on tax receipts.

In simple terms, if we had lots of bad credit card debt and other loans, imagine a situation where creditors are at the door demanding more money, our income has just reduced majorly, we've already spent a whole year reducing our spending, and our expenses are about to go up too. I don't envy IK's position here. My only criticism of him is his rhetoric pre-election and misleading people about what the first few years post-2018 would be like. I'm a nobody sitting at my desk and I saw this coming a mile away, he has teams of supposedly competent people, either they didn't inform us properly or they couldn't see the obvious.



Much obliged, your input is most welcome.

Your assessment is right but here is what I feel may happen. I agree that until the long term macroeconomic adjustments are made we are doomed to long term but here are few immediate and near-future changes we may require.


People hear the word loan and they freak out. Pakistan has a debt to GDP ratio of 80 percent which puts us at #38 in the world. Japan's ratio is around 240%.

What is important is to understand the type of debt and what it is being used for.
I personally feel the current government has done well with the trade balance and fiscal deficit issues. Until we balance our books nothing really will work. Tightening the belt was necessary. Every time government stops spending it affects the market and people tremendously. Remember every dollar spent by the government has an effect of generating 10 dollars in the market.

It's not that they did something new or radical but they have been very lucky with the price of oil dropping and despite COVID disaster our are Remittances still relatively untouched.

Before we start to worry about paying the debt we need to really bring our house in order. Fiscal balance is an absolute necessity. Non-productive debt builds up when we start borrowing to run the government and pay unproductive expeditures. The government must control the fiscal deficit first. Too many leakages of revenue and unnecessary expenses must stop.

Steps that must be taken immediately:

Broaden the tax base. This is one area where they have identified almost 3 trillion Rs worth of additional taxes accessible simply by implementing and enforcing proper tax policies.

Stop illegal remittances transfer. At least 5 billion dollars worth of remittances is moved outside of our banking system.

Smuggling and under-invoicing. US Department of Commerce estimated that Pakistan in 2019 exported $5 billion worth of software alone. Yet only one billion shows up on SBP figures. Most software houses keep money in foreign bank accounts instead of remitting it to Pakistan.

Terrible import policy. In order to collect huge taxes and duties, the government discourages local production of things such as cell phones. We need 45 million smartphones in the country and yet we do not produce ore than few million. Why? cause its easy for the government to put duty and taxes to increase their revenues rather than encourage local production.

NO MORE SUBSIDY TO STATE ENTERPRISES. PIA, Steel Mill, and power companies alone eat away almost 500 billion Rs. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
add the circular debt and we are looking at the astronomical waste of money. Why is the government in the business of running airline and producing steel???????.....incredibly stupid and unnecessary waste of resources.....

As for the worry about the IMF, I think it may not be necessary at this stage. IMF response to COVID includes relief to lenders in the short term and long term. Our program with them is on hold and they even released $1.4 billion immediate payment without any preconditions. IMF may even think of loan forgiveness and that's where good diplomacy is necessary and when IK in early COVID days floated the idea of debt relief the very same people who borrowed this money initially called him a bagger and a looser. Expect IMF to allow more government spending and loosen monetary policy. That's all necessary to kick start the world economy.

In short, if we want to get rid of the IMF we need to put our house in order. If we are generating electricity just to waste 30 % during the line transmission or theft and another 10% by not paying bills then why even bother producing it.

Brother, this is the most disappointing part, of this whole "tabdeeli."

Bhai Jaan I am not sure if it was done intentionally or unintentionally. Even I didn't know or realize how bankrupt the government was after Nawaz was done. Rape is not the word to explain what Tubbar and Bhutto have done to this country.
And maybe Imran didn't realize what he was about to inherit. I used to have sleepless nights thinking about what a terrible situation he has walked into without realizing the challenges he is about to face. Thank God things have stabilized and results were starting to show until COVID hit. InshAllah we will manage...

 

[Blacklight]

Bhai Jaan I am not sure if it was done intentionally or unintentionally. Even I didn't know or realize how bankrupt the government was after Nawaz was done. Rape is not the word to explain what Tubbar and Bhutto have done to this country.
And maybe Imran didn't realize what he was about to inherit. I used to have sleepless nights thinking about what a terrible situation he has walked into without realizing the challenges he is about to face. Thank God things have stabilized and results were starting to show until COVID hit. InshAllah we will manage...

Bhai Jaan I am not sure if it was done intentionally or unintentionally. Even I didn't know or realize how bankrupt the government was after Nawaz was done. Rape is not the word to explain what Tubbar and Bhutto have done to this country.

"Unintentionally" seriously?

We all know what NS & AAZ have done, us mere mortals knew how deep the rot was, but it is only IK who was clueless. Gives me a lot of faith in him. Thanks for the reminder.

I used to have sleepless nights thinking about what a terrible situation he has walked into without realizing the challenges he is about to face..

That explains a lot.

The day you realize, no politician is worth loosing sleep over, you let us know.

 

[Flight of falcon]

IF there is any chance to bring a dime of that looted money back it will take YEARS. And this is a HUGE IF to start with. We will need something to bargain with, some serious diplomacy and relations for the countries holding billions of those dollars to give them back to us. The legal process and complications alone will take up years even if that country agrees to return the money.


Another long term project. Its not right you need the money so send a few trucks to Riko Diq to bring some gold! The previous contracts signed are already a headache for the state. First we need to get out of that, then start the project. Again, a years long process.


Agree. This should have been done. How successful it would have been is a different debate.


Absolutely true. Must have been done. Need strong institutions however to ensure the loosening of regulations do not end up costing the state. However that is the job of gov. They should put checks in place and then facilitate the business.


Agreed again, but in an ideal situation. With mounting debts, both external and internal, a huge budget deficit etc either we had to increase taxes or borrow more money OR DO BOTH. But i do agree that the increase taxes are damaging the industry. I agree to this measure only on a short term basis. The government need to start relaxing the loosen the taxes no that the initial crunch have passed. This is already under debate by the way however the COVID19 issue may delay this measure by a year or so.


YES! Must be done. Do not pay heed to media and people who will cry about it, esp privatizations. Should do what needs to be done.


Do not artificially support the rupee. That have turned into a disaster already thanks to daronomics!



Necessary evil. With no money at hand, the recovery of looted money or domestic mineral recourse exploitation a years long process (if not decades long) and no one willing to lend money to gov. (local banks denied request, IMF came up with very strict terms for loan as well) the taxes and tariffs were raised IMF door was knocked.



GOING FORWARD, i will want the government to loosen up on taxes in terms of tax percentage and get even more strict on taxes in terms of increasing tax base. Decrease tax percentage, esp as an incentive to the companies and people who have already registered encouraging more business to register to get advantage of next incentive phase. Also keep working on bringing back that looted money AND keep developing the local mineral resources. Government have done an excellent job getting out of that electricity deal with Turkey which was catastrophic. I am not sure but i think something similar have been achieved with the Qatar LNG deal too?? WE should try and wriggle our way out of the Reko Dik deal as well OR at least get them to revise terms and then start working on developing the resource on war footings. Also not give up on oil exploration. The failure of Kekra 1 seem to have take the wind out of governments sail. That should not be the case. We should keep digging and keep developing natural resources as many studies do indicate their presence. For example, remember that Chiniot Iron deposit that previous gov. went crazy about? What happened to that? Should be looked into!! Also government should start infrastructure projects even if it means borrowing money. These will start up the local industry and circulate money, and, should ensure that these projects are corruption free for a change.


@Flight of falcon @Path-Finder @araz your thoughts?

I simply cannot agree more with everything you have written. Corruption corruption corruption. Its everywhere in Pakistan and its now in the DNA of our people. They simply don't see anything wrong with it anymore.

About the looted money, there are rare instances of money ever recovered. Money that is stolen and invested in London, Dubai, and Toronto is lost forever. It is in fact welcomed and protected by foreign governments. That is why I always argue with my dad that IK made a huge mistake by not accepting money in exchange for letting Bhutto and Tubbar escape. Now they have all escaped AND took their money with them. He may be making principle decisions but we lost billion because of that.

About RiKo project I always meet with Senator Ata Jaan at different get-togethers. Perhaps one of the reasons she got appointed as a senator is because of her role in the Canadian company getting a contract for this project. This project was so prone to corruption that even a blind man could see that someone was making tons of money and should have stopped this project. The Canadian company knowing very well still went ahead and signed the contract. Whose fault is that? According to international law, it is the company's fault. Now we need to spend millions and fight this case....money wasted and project on standstill....

"Unintentionally" seriously?

We all know what NS & AAZ have done, us mere mortals knew how deep the rot was, but it is only IK who was clueless. Gives me a lot of faith in him. Thanks for the reminder.


That explains a lot.

The day you realize, no politician is worth loosing sleep over, you let us know.

Bhai Jaan I wasnt losing sleep and hair over the IK government but about the possibility of the country defaulting.
we should be so thankful Iranians came and saved us )))

 

[Blacklight]

Your assessment is right but here is what I feel may happen. I agree that until the long term macroeconomic adjustments are made we are doomed to long term but here are few immediate and near-future changes we may require.


People hear the word loan and they freak out. Pakistan has a debt to GDP ratio of 80 percent which puts us at #38 in the world. Japan's ratio is around 240%.

What is important is to understand the type of debt and what it is being used for.
I personally feel the current government has done well with the trade balance and fiscal deficit issues. Until we balance our books nothing really will work. Tightening the belt was necessary. Every time government stops spending it affects the market and people tremendously. Remember every dollar spent by the government has an effect of generating 10 dollars in the market.

It's not that they did something new or radical but they have been very lucky with the price of oil dropping and despite COVID disaster our are Remittances still relatively untouched.

Before we start to worry about paying the debt we need to really bring our house in order. Fiscal balance is an absolute necessity. Non-productive debt builds up when we start borrowing to run the government and pay unproductive expeditures. The government must control the fiscal deficit first. Too many leakages of revenue and unnecessary expenses must stop.

Steps that must be taken immediately:

Broaden the tax base. This is one area where they have identified almost 3 trillion Rs worth of additional taxes accessible simply by implementing and enforcing proper tax policies.

Stop illegal remittances transfer. At least 5 billion dollars worth of remittances is moved outside of our banking system.

Smuggling and under-invoicing. US Department of Commerce estimated that Pakistan in 2019 exported $5 billion worth of software alone. Yet only one billion shows up on SBP figures. Most software houses keep money in foreign bank accounts instead of remitting it to Pakistan.

Terrible import policy. In order to collect huge taxes and duties, the government discourages local production of things such as cell phones. We need 45 million smartphones in the country and yet we do not produce ore than few million. Why? cause its easy for the government to put duty and taxes to increase their revenues rather than encourage local production.

In short, if we want to get rid of the IMF we need to put our house in order. If we are generating electricity just to waste 30 % during the line transmission or theft and another 10% by not paying bills then why even bother producing it.

You have raised valid points, I will attempt to address some:

Broaden tax base - Actually there needs to be a decrease in flat taxation, like sales tax. At the same time an increase in business, and corporates who are either sitting outside the tax net or paying pittance.

Local Manufacturing of Smart Phones - GoP needs to incentivize major manufacturers to set shop in Pak, and make good quality products at a reasonable price, as is being done in India and Bangladesh.

Our import policy needs more than a visit, our car manufacturing sector, which after years of protectionism should have been exporting, is producing over priced junks.

Electricity - The poor pay through their nose, will suffering load shedding, while the rich......? This hasn't changed, and needs a massive overhaul.
Just as an e.g. KESC is still owned indirectly by ZAA, due to GoP not having given the nod to Shanghai Electric to take over. At the same time, the hurdles KESC face from local & federal depts has forced it to put all future power plants on hold. At the same time the nuke plant that is coming up in Karachi will not share any power generation capacity with KESC, and will send it up north to Wapda.

Remittance - Our remittance base needs to be strengthened by increasing vocational and technical schools, but that is not happening.

Min of Overseas Pakistanis and Human Resource Development - What this ministry actually does under the new GoP, is no different then previous govt's. just ask any semi skilled laborer in GCC. There is no focus, or urgency on how to increase remittances except lip service.

Issues which are critical, and do not need a lot in depth analysis, and should have been addressed on a war footing, are as usual being dealt with in an "all is well" manner. There is no urgency. If they will actually be addressed at all, is the most worrying part.

I simply cannot agree more with everything you have written. Corruption corruption corruption. Its everywhere in Pakistan and its now in the DNA of our people. They simply don't see anything wrong with it anymore.

About the looted money, there are rare instances of money ever recovered. Money that is stolen and invested in London, Dubai, and Toronto is lost forever. It is in fact welcomed and protected by foreign governments. That is why I always argue with my dad that IK made a huge mistake by not accepting money in exchange for letting Bhutto and Tubbar escape. Now they have all escaped AND took their money with them. He may be making principle decisions but we lost billion because of that.

About RiKo project I always meet with Senator Ata Jaan at different get-togethers. Perhaps one of the reasons she got appointed as a senator is because of her role in the Canadian company getting a contract for this project. This project was so prone to corruption that even a blind man could see that someone was making tons of money and should have stopped this project. The Canadian company knowing very well still went ahead and signed the contract. Whose fault is that? According to international law, it is the company's fault. Now we need to spend millions and fight this case....money wasted and project on standstill....




Bhai Jaan I wasnt losing sleep and hair over the IK government but about the possibility of the country defaulting.
we should be so thankful Iranians came and saved us )))

I simply cannot agree more with everything you have written. Corruption corruption corruption. Its everywhere in Pakistan and its now in the DNA of our people. They simply don't see anything wrong with it anymore.

Due to a corrupt judicial system this cannot be fixed.

About the looted money, there are rare instances of money ever recovered. Money that is stolen and invested in London, Dubai, and Toronto is lost forever. It is in fact welcomed and protected by foreign governments.

Sir, actually having served in law enforcement, I can tell you that this is a myth. THE issue lies with OUR courts, they are either too corrupt, or too incompetent. I can assure you, if International Red Warrants are issued, or official explanations sought from Foreign jurisdictions, about public officials, with the exception of India, and a few African countries, most do comply with Foreign court orders.

That is why I always argue with my dad that IK made a huge mistake by not accepting money in exchange for letting Bhutto and Tubbar escape. Now they have all escaped AND took their money with them. He may be making principle decisions but we lost billion because of that.

You will one day realize that he is neither a good leader, nor a good business man. In Business 101, you are taught, the first thing you should know, is when to cut your losses and get out. I didn't even go to oxford, and I know this.

NS is enjoying his life in London, and AAZ is king of Sindh. The End.

Bhai Jaan I wasnt losing sleep and hair over the IK government but about the possibility of the country defaulting.
we should be so thankful Iranians came and saved us )))

Bhai Sahab, this is the problem with civilians. You bankrupt our motherland, then when we step in, everybody goes ape shit.

If it were upto me, all I need is just 7 days. Thats it, and then you would see how these corrupt ba$tards would pay. Inka baap bhi kabar main sya nikalkay paisay wapis karta.

As to the Iranians, we are slowly building capacity to put them in their place. Enough of thier back stabbbing.

They way they threw, poor afghanis into the river, is not an example enough for blinded folks, to realize what the regime thinks of us.

 

[fisher1]

Just recent who started worked on dams so that you can have enough water to drink and washed.

Dont cry and take a tour of orange trai mn to ease your pain.

I live in Peshawar so what do i do? Sit in Mohanhadoro ruins i mean Corruption bus of Imran Khan and send galiyan Imran Khan's way?

This support for corrupt people is disgusting.

 

[Flight of falcon]

I live in Peshawar so what do i do? Sit in Mohanhadoro ruins i mean Corruption bus of Imran Khan and send galiyan Imran Khan's way?

This support for corrupt people is disgusting.

You have raised valid points, I will attempt to address some:

Broaden tax base - Actually there needs to be a decrease in flat taxation, like sales tax. At the same time an increase in business, and corporates who are either sitting outside the tax net or paying pittance.

Local Manufacturing of Smart Phones - GoP needs to incentivize major manufacturers to set shop in Pak, and make good quality products at a reasonable price, as is being done in India and Bangladesh.

Our import policy needs more than a visit, our car manufacturing sector, which after years of protectionism should have been exporting, is producing over priced junks.

Electricity - The poor pay through their nose, will suffering load shedding, while the rich......? This hasn't changed, and needs a massive overhaul.
Just as an e.g. KESC is still owned indirectly by ZAA, due to GoP not having given the nod to Shanghai Electric to take over. At the same time, the hurdles KESC face from local & federal depts has forced it to put all future power plants on hold. At the same time the nuke plant that is coming up in Karachi will not share any power generation capacity with KESC, and will send it up north to Wapda.

Remittance - Our remittance base needs to be strengthened by increasing vocational and technical schools, but that is not happening.

Min of Overseas Pakistanis and Human Resource Development - What this ministry actually does under the new GoP, is no different then previous govt's. just ask any semi skilled laborer in GCC. There is no focus, or urgency on how to increase remittances except lip service.

Issues which are critical, and do not need a lot in depth analysis, and should have been addressed on a war footing, are as usual being dealt with in an "all is well" manner. There is no urgency. If they will actually be addressed at all, is the most worrying part.



Due to a corrupt judicial system this cannot be fixed.



Sir, actually having served in law enforcement, I can tell you that this is a myth. THE issue lies with OUR courts, they are either too corrupt, or too incompetent. I can assure you, if International Red Warrants are issued, or official explanations sought from Foreign jurisdictions, about public officials, with the exception of India, and a few African countries, most do comply with Foreign court orders.



You will one day realize that he is neither a good leader, nor a good business man. In Business 101, you are taught, the first thing you should know, is when to cut your losses and get out. NS is enjoying his life in London, and AAZ is king of Sindh. The End.


Bhai Sahab, this is the problem with civilians. You bankrupt our motherland, then when we step in, everybody goes ape shit.

If it were upto me, all I need is just 7 days. Thats it, and then you would see how these corrupt ba$tards would pay. Inka baap bhi kabar main sya nikalkay paisay wapis karta.

As to the Iranians, we are slowly building capacity to put them in their place. Enough of thier back stabbbing.

They way they threw, poor afghanis into the river, is not an example enough for blinded folks, to realize what the regime thinks of us.

Wow this is the longest post you have ever written .... hats off sir and some valid points .

I live in Peshawar so what do i do? Sit in Mohanhadoro ruins i mean Corruption bus of Imran Khan and send galiyan Imran Khan's way?

This support for corrupt people is disgusting.

If you really are in Peshawar please tell me what Mohinjodaro you are referring to ? please point out which section of the bus station is not finished and I will ask my brother to visit there and report to me directly. So name the sites of Mhenjodro...

 

[Path-Finder]

That is also bad project and should not be done in first place. Rather we should have invested all money in dams or some other useful project which could bring $. Someone should also file case on this and grab the culprit even if its from pti or if its IK

what about khatti train!

I live in Peshawar so what do i do? Sit in Mohanhadoro ruins i mean Corruption bus of Imran Khan and send galiyan Imran Khan's way?

This support for corrupt people is disgusting.

Interesting, you dont find corruption in nawaj and kabaria tubbar who has been leeching the nation since the 80's!

 

[AZ1]

what about khatti train!


Interesting, you dont find corruption in nawaj and kabaria tubbar who has been leeching the nation sincethe 80's!

Build anything you like but as investment or you have enough money and not on loans. It's hurt more than it give.

 

[Path-Finder]

Build anything you like but as investment or you have enough money and not on loans. It's hurt more than it give.

but we already discussed orange metro which does not cover the entirety of Lahore(goes towards raiwind) and will continue to cost an arm and a leg dues to the way contracts were signed BUT that is a halal project.

 

[Blacklight]

Wow this is the longest post you have ever written .... hats off sir and some valid points .

I soon realized, it is quite impossible to actually have an intellectual discourse here.

Either people are clueless, and like to hear the sound of their own voice, or they are here promoting idiotic nationalistic or sectarian agendas. Without even thinking for a second, how foolish they look.

The truth, ground realities, published data, introspect, an open mind, are all concepts totally alien to them. So I downshifted.

 

[Flight of falcon]

You have raised valid points, I will attempt to address some:

Broaden tax base - Actually there needs to be a decrease in flat taxation, like sales tax. At the same time an increase in business, and corporates who are either sitting outside the tax net or paying pittance.

Local Manufacturing of Smart Phones - GoP needs to incentivize major manufacturers to set shop in Pak, and make good quality products at a reasonable price, as is being done in India and Bangladesh.

Our import policy needs more than a visit, our car manufacturing sector, which after years of protectionism should have been exporting, is producing over priced junks.

Electricity - The poor pay through their nose, will suffering load shedding, while the rich......? This hasn't changed, and needs a massive overhaul.
Just as an e.g. KESC is still owned indirectly by ZAA, due to GoP not having given the nod to Shanghai Electric to take over. At the same time, the hurdles KESC face from local & federal depts has forced it to put all future power plants on hold. At the same time the nuke plant that is coming up in Karachi will not share any power generation capacity with KESC, and will send it up north to Wapda.

Remittance - Our remittance base needs to be strengthened by increasing vocational and technical schools, but that is not happening.

Min of Overseas Pakistanis and Human Resource Development - What this ministry actually does under the new GoP, is no different then previous govt's. just ask any semi skilled laborer in GCC. There is no focus, or urgency on how to increase remittances except lip service.

Issues which are critical, and do not need a lot in depth analysis, and should have been addressed on a war footing, are as usual being dealt with in an "all is well" manner. There is no urgency. If they will actually be addressed at all, is the most worrying part.



Due to a corrupt judicial system this cannot be fixed.




SO I Agree with everything you wrote above however everything below I don’t.

Sir, actually having served in law enforcement, I can tell you that this is a myth. THE issue lies with OUR courts, they are either too corrupt, or too incompetent. I can assure you, if International Red Warrants are issued, or official explanations sought from Foreign jurisdictions, about public officials, with the exception of India, and a few African countries, most do comply with Foreign court orders.


Yes and no. First of all the money that is stuffed in suit cases and sent through hawala system outside the country in cash is simply untraceable. Dubai is the number one destination of cash transactions. How do I know ? Some in my family have done that.
You can pay in Pakistan and pick up money in Dubai. Heck the guy who sold our factory for nine caror got five in Pakistan and four in Dubai. How do we know because his partner told us under oath in front of DC . Dubai by far is the biggest money laundry destination after London. Iranians pass their money through Dubai and so does Iraqis .

We have complained to the Canadian government that people are bringing in millions from Pakistan claiming that they sold business or houses in Pakistan and for them to properly vet the source of this money . We have seen absolutely zero interest in investigating and making laws against illegal money coming in. They want this money in... it creates jobs when these people buy luxury homes and luxury cars etc .
People coming in as immigrants are allowed to bring anything they own inc Jewellery. Now this may shock you but any item that is not in the raw form can be brought in unlimited quantity. So they make Gold Jewellery and bring it here and sell it!!!! its that easy!

Red warrant? Haram corruption money paid in cash usually has no paper trail. I don’t care what Pakistani authorities do I care what our government is doing to stop money coming in.


You will one day realize that he is neither a good leader, nor a good business man. In Business 101, you are taught, the first thing you should know, is when to cut your losses and get out. I didn't even go to oxford, and I know this.


Not true .... he is a greatest leader we have available today .... once we have a better leader I will jump the ship and support the next better one . Until then he is the best we have and deserving of all our support.
I studied economics 303 and I can assure you this is a win win situation and no way in hell his decisions are wrong. We may not like them but they are necessary and will give us results in due time.


NS is enjoying his life in London, and AAZ is king of Sindh. The End.

correct.


Bhai Sahab, this is the problem with civilians. You bankrupt our motherland, then when we step in, everybody goes ape shit.

If it were upto me, all I need is just 7 days. Thats it, and then you would see how these corrupt ba$tards would pay. Inka baap bhi kabar main sya nikalkay paisay wapis karta.

As to the Iranians, we are slowly building capacity to put them in their place. Enough of thier back stabbbing.

They way they threw, poor afghanis into the river, is not an example enough for blinded folks, to realize what the regime thinks of us.

I could t agree more on this point.

SO I Agree with everything you wrote above however everything below I don’t.

Sir, actually having served in law enforcement, I can tell you that this is a myth. THE issue lies with OUR courts, they are either too corrupt, or too incompetent. I can assure you, if International Red Warrants are issued, or official explanations sought from Foreign jurisdictions, about public officials, with the exception of India, and a few African countries, most do comply with Foreign court orders.


Yes and no. First of all the money that is stuffed in suit cases and sent through hawala system outside the country in cash is simply untraceable. Dubai is the number one destination of cash transactions. How do I know ? Some in my family have done that.
You can pay in Pakistan and pick up money in Dubai. Heck the guy who sold our factory for nine caror got five in Pakistan and four in Dubai. How do we know because his partner told us under oath in front of DC . Dubai by far is the biggest money laundry destination after London. Iranians pass their money through Dubai and so does Iraqis .

We have complained to the Canadian government that people are bringing in millions from Pakistan claiming that they sold business or houses in Pakistan and for them to properly vet the source of this money . We have seen absolutely zero interest in investigating and making laws against illegal money coming in. They want this money in... it creates jobs when these people buy luxury homes and luxury cars etc .
People coming in as immigrants are allowed to bring anything they own inc Jewellery. Now this may shock you but any item that is not in the raw form can be brought in unlimited quantity. So they make Gold Jewellery and bring it here and sell it!!!! its that easy!

Red warrant? Haram corruption money paid in cash usually has no paper trail. I don’t care what Pakistani authorities do I care what our government is doing to stop money coming in.


You will one day realize that he is neither a good leader, nor a good business man. In Business 101, you are taught, the first thing you should know, is when to cut your losses and get out. I didn't even go to oxford, and I know this.


Not true .... he is a greatest leader we have available today .... once we have a better leader I will jump the ship and support the next better one . Until then he is the best we have and deserving of all our support.
I studied economics 303 and I can assure you this is a win win situation and no way in hell his decisions are wrong. We may not like them but they are necessary and will give us results in due time.


NS is enjoying his life in London, and AAZ is king of Sindh. The End.

correct.
But who is to be blamed for that? Cause IK didnt appoint the judges. They are making money and making mockery of the law as well.....and no one can stop these crows...

Bhai Sahab, this is the problem with civilians. You bankrupt our motherland, then when we step in, everybody goes ape shit.

If it were upto me, all I need is just 7 days. Thats it, and then you would see how these corrupt ba$tards would pay. Inka baap bhi kabar main sya nikalkay paisay wapis karta.

As to the Iranians, we are slowly building capacity to put them in their place. Enough of thier back stabbbing.

They way they threw, poor afghanis into the river, is not an example enough for blinded folks, to realize what the regime thinks of us.[/QUOTE]


I could t agree more on this point.

 

[nahtanbob]

So u r saying it is the ppl(an average person in Pak) who is borrowing this money from IMF, World Bank, ADB, etc. and living lavishly beyond his/her means? That was ur original argument wasn't it? That "stop blaming the politicians and quit living beyond ur means"...
...so if according to u...politicians are not responsible...then it must be the ppl who are living beyond their means and borrowing money.

Do explain if it's not the corrupt politicians...then who is it that is to blame. I'm curious to know...so plz do provide details rather than one liners.

compare public transport in Pakistan with India
Pakistanis despite being poorer have a poorer public transport system than India
that would be one good example of living above your means

 

[Blacklight]

Yes and no. First of all the money that is stuffed in suit cases and sent through hawala system outside the country in cash is simply untraceable. Dubai is the number one destination of cash transactions. How do I know ? Some in my family have done that.
You can pay in Pakistan and pick up money in Dubai. Heck the guy who sold our factory for nine caror got five in Pakistan and four in Dubai. How do we know because his partner told us under oath in front of DC . Dubai by far is the biggest money laundry destination after London. Iranians pass their money through Dubai and so does Iraqis .

How illegal money flows in and out, is exactly why we are in the FATF grey list, there is no conspiracy, it is our very own incompetence.

We have complained to the Canadian government that people are bringing in millions from Pakistan claiming that they sold business or houses in Pakistan and for them to properly vet the source of this money . We have seen absolutely zero interest in investigating and making laws against illegal money coming in. They want this money in... it creates jobs when these people buy luxury homes and luxury cars etc .
People coming in as immigrants are allowed to bring anything they own inc Jewellery. Now this may shock you but any item that is not in the raw form can be brought in unlimited quantity. So they make Gold Jewellery and bring it here and sell it!!!! its that easy!

Most govts will not waste time investigating everyone who brings in anything, unless there is credible evidence. The manpower is simply not there.

Red warrant? Haram corruption money paid in cash usually has no paper trail. I don’t care what Pakistani authorities do I care what our government is doing to stop money coming in. Bhai Jaan we talked about the Saudi guy and how you said he stole millions. How did his money end up in Canada ? Stolen money right?

So you want to charge NS and AAZ without a paper trail? No country in the world will entertain you without proper legal documents.

We have been discussing Pakistan, and its issues, I fail to understand how, you or Canada are relevant.

Besides, I have no idea, who you spoke to, about any guy.

Not true .... he is a greatest leader we have available today .... once we have a better leader I will jump the ship and support the next better one . Until then he is the best we have and deserving of all our support.
I studied economics 303 and I can assure you this is a win win situation and no way in hell his decisions are wrong. We may not like them but they are necessary and will give us results in due time.

This is actually a very sad moment in history, that we have run out of credible honest leaders.

Nonetheless, with his U turns, I personally find it next to impossible to support anything he says. But you go right ahead!

I studied economics 303 and I can assure you this is a win win situation and no way in hell his decisions are wrong. We may not like them but they are necessary and will give us results in due time.

I was expecting this answer from you.

Riyast e Madina having historically high interest rates, as per which economic genius is an economic stimulus? do kindly elaborate.

A great man once said: Never love someone so much, that you become blind to their ills.