Very simplistic solution, what do you want to do with your retired father, old mother, home making spouse and finally your young kids....
Everyone becomes retired, old and kid when it comes to work.
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Very simplistic solution, what do you want to do with your retired father, old mother, home making spouse and finally your young kids....
Bhai Im not defending or propagating any one ,Im just sharing the economic model Pakistan has for the past 20 years which was kind off filling smaller hole withbigger hole concept ,real issue remains the non development spending till the time it will not be controlled we will end up like this .I understand your viewpoint. But you are oversimplyfing things. Has this model resulted in GDP to debt ratio reduction in PPP or PLMN term afterwards? Its all about the balance. Has our external deficit situation this dire in his tenure. Solely relying on import expansion without taking into account and strangulating your own local and export industries is a formula for disaster, it only leads to one end.
2nd please take into consideration type of investment or financing taken and its contribution to your economy. Electricity was in no doubt the need of the hour, but it has meet certain merits and be sustainable to our local economy. Was the debt taken really beneficial in Quaid e Azam solar park or Lahore metro train, choosing imported coal instead of thar local?
Cherry picking things which are good for argument is not an ideal waydata I shared is for the MUST BE PAID BACK 28 billion! A 2017 article! pmln was still in powa.
what! sukuk with 450 million dollar interest? are you ok? then to put the cherry on the cake a billion in bills!
?? what has this got to do with what is scheduled to be paid back?
are you now just sharing any odd article. what has this got to do with miftah saying that they falsely kept the rupee floated?
another thing to add is that orange train! the LNG deal with qatar!
You need to see where we are buying and what ,we buy 16 Billion US $ worth of items from China ,and China was ok with idea of trade in Yuan.Dollar is an international currency, I fully support that we should have bilateral currency agreements but we did not. We can negate some of the effects of out import bill by local currency arrangements. Our loans and imports have to be paid back in dollars. Our exports are in dollars. That's why artificially subsidizing dollar has such a huge impact on out local industry and economy.
Its called Dollar trap i have tried to answer in above post that you need to see what you are importing and in what currency ,India trades in basket of currency so we can also .its self imposing .For exports we need infrastructure investment and it will always dis balance trade balance since this sector has no or little investments till the time whole things will be wramped up we require couple of 100s of billion US$ for industry .e.g cost of one petro chemcial complex (which is absent in Pakistan) is closed to 60 to 70 Billion US$ .a Refinery can cost 10 Billion US$ a fertilizer plant 3/4 Billion US$ .Textile value addition can cause 30/40 billion US$ a manufacturing setup smaller scale can go uppto 500 Mil US$ easily .So understand these investments have to done irrespective of fact and real issue remains the managing of Dollar you cant free float dollar in Pakistan economyRegarding your point that the debt to GDP ratio is going up. It is bound to grow, there is no way around it in the short term. It is indicative of the deep imbalances in our economy.
We have to take loan to balance our foreign deficit we are in negative. We are even taking loans to pay interest on our existing loans. Than to pay the principal amount as well. This is a domino effect. The CLASSIC DEBT TRAP. Our current exports and remittances are not able to sustain this load. To reach an equilibrium we need time and serious efforts in our export industry which takes time as it was in recession and reduction in imports which were growing exponentially. There is no short cut.
Can you suggest an alternate solution to our problem. I am all ears and welcome healthy criticism.
Court is open also judges are free. Why dont take the case in lahore court lol? Get your decision and hang the culprit.I mean we Peshawaris don't even have BRT so Punjabis are better that they have roads and cheap metro train.
8 years and we only received a matric pass as education minister. Now that's what i call vision that nobody else has.
BRT is like a corruption goldmine for PTI. And the best part is nobody even questions them.
My friend I couldn’t have said that better. That’s exactly the mindset our people had. Blinded by Nawazs hatred and rightly so, because we as a nation are never satisfied by anything. Forget corruption, We start hating the person for why he is rich or why he is at a powerful post all due to HAsad. And in that hatred they start believing every allegation against the other person.I completely agree with you bro. I voted for PTI because i ate up everything Imran Khan spoke and used to hate Nawaz Sharif blindly thinking everything he did was wrong. I even believed that Nawaz Sharif should ride on a cycle because Imran Khan told me x country's PM rides on a cycle.
When a train accident would happen, then a whole army of reporters would rush to Bani gala and Imran Khan would give us lectures on West does this, India did this, minister resigns so inquiry can go on.
When it finally came time of Imran Khan government, i was ecstatic, oh yar now Imran Khan will show what government really is like and he will make Riasat e Medina.
****, he goes on helicopter instead of a car, forget a bicycle lol, that Sheikh Rasheed smokes a cigar everytime there's a train accident, what resignation?
Imran Khan proved to be even worse than any other we had experienced. Allah ki panah, we can't even speak about the wrongs of Imran Khan without being insulted by his cult, at least we could insult Nawaz and Zardari. It's become blasphemy to speak against Imran Khan.
We were too blind in hatred of Nawaz Sharif. Completely blind that we couldn't see his good. Imran Khan used to say PMLN has been ruling Punjab for 10 years, what have they done? Well, Imran Khan has been ruling KPK for 8 years now. What has he given us except make it Mohanjadoro. I still go to Punjab for healthcare, our people still go to Punjab for education, when people get rich they go to Punjab because KPK is a shithole.
These worshippers of Imran Khan, they think IK will make Pakistan something if he is in government for 5/10/15 years. Stupid. Imran Khan has been in government in KPK for 8 years with full majority, still uneducated, still backwards in healthcare, backwards province. What IK will achieve is make the whole Pakistan KPK.
IF there is any chance to bring a dime of that looted money back it will take YEARS. And this is a HUGE IF to start with. We will need something to bargain with, some serious diplomacy and relations for the countries holding billions of those dollars to give them back to us. The legal process and complications alone will take up years even if that country agrees to return the money.1 . zero compromise on looted money return
Another long term project. Its not right you need the money so send a few trucks to Riko Diq to bring some gold! The previous contracts signed are already a headache for the state. First we need to get out of that, then start the project. Again, a years long process.2. gold from riko diq . could have been sold in intl market to raise equity
Agree. This should have been done. How successful it would have been is a different debate.3. creation of a sovereign wealth fund
Absolutely true. Must have been done. Need strong institutions however to ensure the loosening of regulations do not end up costing the state. However that is the job of gov. They should put checks in place and then facilitate the business.4. loosen regulations to boost real estate , industry
Agreed again, but in an ideal situation. With mounting debts, both external and internal, a huge budget deficit etc either we had to increase taxes or borrow more money OR DO BOTH. But i do agree that the increase taxes are damaging the industry. I agree to this measure only on a short term basis. The government need to start relaxing the loosen the taxes no that the initial crunch have passed. This is already under debate by the way however the COVID19 issue may delay this measure by a year or so.5. loosen taxes
YES! Must be done. Do not pay heed to media and people who will cry about it, esp privatizations. Should do what needs to be done.6. cut down govt spending , loose the govt tit suckers like PIA, SNGPL
Do not artificially support the rupee. That have turned into a disaster already thanks to daronomics!7. protect the rupee from mkt free fall of the speculators and whales .
Necessary evil. With no money at hand, the recovery of looted money or domestic mineral recourse exploitation a years long process (if not decades long) and no one willing to lend money to gov. (local banks denied request, IMF came up with very strict terms for loan as well) the taxes and tariffs were raised IMF door was knocked.went running to IMF lenders .......
if there is no logic or substance then why other peoples time? or your own!Cherry picking things which are good for argument is not an ideal way
Lol height of irony that you are saying this.Cherry picking things which are good for argument is not an ideal way
I completely agree with you bro. I voted for PTI because i ate up everything Imran Khan spoke and used to hate Nawaz Sharif blindly thinking everything he did was wrong. I even believed that Nawaz Sharif should ride on a cycle because Imran Khan told me x country's PM rides on a cycle.
When a train accident would happen, then a whole army of reporters would rush to Bani gala and Imran Khan would give us lectures on West does this, India did this, minister resigns so inquiry can go on.
When it finally came time of Imran Khan government, i was ecstatic, oh yar now Imran Khan will show what government really is like and he will make Riasat e Medina.
****, he goes on helicopter instead of a car, forget a bicycle lol, that Sheikh Rasheed smokes a cigar everytime there's a train accident, what resignation?
Imran Khan proved to be even worse than any other we had experienced. Allah ki panah, we can't even speak about the wrongs of Imran Khan without being insulted by his cult, at least we could insult Nawaz and Zardari. It's become blasphemy to speak against Imran Khan.
We were too blind in hatred of Nawaz Sharif. Completely blind that we couldn't see his good. Imran Khan used to say PMLN has been ruling Punjab for 10 years, what have they done? Well, Imran Khan has been ruling KPK for 8 years now. What has he given us except make it Mohanjadoro. I still go to Punjab for healthcare, our people still go to Punjab for education, when people get rich they go to Punjab because KPK is a shithole.
These worshippers of Imran Khan, they think IK will make Pakistan something if he is in government for 5/10/15 years. Stupid. Imran Khan has been in government in KPK for 8 years with full majority, still uneducated, still backwards in healthcare, backwards province. What IK will achieve is make the whole Pakistan KPK.
I don't want to brag but since this person thinks we are on PTI payroll I'll have to bring it up. In last 6 months alone I have sent back $10k to support family and for donation/Zakat. It's not much, may Allah give me more strength and ability to send back more but for losers on here to come sh-t on Pakistanis living abroad on the back of which the country is still standing is quite disappointing. The around 5 million Pakistanis abroad send remittances of $20b while the 220million Pakistanis in Pakistan have an export earnings of just $22-25b. Pakistan's books won't balance if we remove these remittances. May Allah give aqal to my fellow Pakistanis.You are entitled to what ever you believe in .... no matter how bizarre or untrue....but this actually made me laugh ....
“Don't also forget that many people are on payroll of PTI in other countries and that's why you see them be so vicious. “
payroll??? So I am on their payroll buddy we sitting outside working hard and sending money home make it possible for people like you to come and type on the computer .... last I checked out remittances help you pay your bills.....since people like you have never paid taxes and most likely never paid electricity bills either.
Just for the records yes I do donate to PTI and many other noble causes :...
he must have electricity kunda or running from paying income taxes otherwise anyone could see who made this country defaulter almost in 2017You are entitled to what ever you believe in .... no matter how bizarre or untrue....but this actually made me laugh ....
“Don't also forget that many people are on payroll of PTI in other countries and that's why you see them be so vicious. “
payroll??? So I am on their payroll buddy we sitting outside working hard and sending money home make it possible for people like you to come and type on the computer .... last I checked out remittances help you pay your bills.....since people like you have never paid taxes and most likely never paid electricity bills either.
Just for the records yes I do donate to PTI and many other noble causes :...
... our loan policy. translated from Deutsche
we will keep begging IMF-
till IMF is bank-rupt
I completely agree with 'filling smaller holes with bigger holes' argument. But if we look more broadly we will see that majority of projects had no long term economic viability in mind rather political benefits in the short term, we ended up creating one sink hole after an another. It was mostly a political show for the gullible instead of long term planning.Bhai Im not defending or propagating any one ,Im just sharing the economic model Pakistan has for the past 20 years which was kind off filling smaller hole withbigger hole concept ,real issue remains the non development spending till the time it will not be controlled we will end up like this .
When i say improve your knowledge it means self studying avoiding Klasra shit .For Electricity all projects are IRR based and on IPP policy again which was done by General Musharaf regime .IRR doesnt bother your loan protfolio but in later you need to buy electricity which was 8 cents at that time & 65% thermal efficiency better than Khusro bhaktiar`s and Razaq Dawood`s thermal power plants but still Govt is issuing them PO and furnace oil .Local Coal has higher sulphur content then imported one and moisture levels are higher as well so feasibility was in question mark .for Metro it is debatable but hey we have BRT as well .
Cherry picking things which are good for argument is not an ideal way
You need to see where we are buying and what ,we buy 16 Billion US $ worth of items from China ,and China was ok with idea of trade in Yuan.
Its called Dollar trap i have tried to answer in above post that you need to see what you are importing and in what currency ,India trades in basket of currency so we can also .its self imposing .For exports we need infrastructure investment and it will always dis balance trade balance since this sector has no or little investments till the time whole things will be wramped up we require couple of 100s of billion US$ for industry .e.g cost of one petro chemcial complex (which is absent in Pakistan) is closed to 60 to 70 Billion US$ .a Refinery can cost 10 Billion US$ a fertilizer plant 3/4 Billion US$ .Textile value addition can cause 30/40 billion US$ a manufacturing setup smaller scale can go uppto 500 Mil US$ easily .So understand these investments have to done irrespective of fact and real issue remains the managing of Dollar you cant free float dollar in Pakistan economy
Bro, ignore people like these. These are Munafiqeen of the highest order.
They are sitting in foreign countries or have someone in family abroad abusing the currency exchange rates and wishing PKR devalues even further so they can exploit it. If Pakistan gets destroyed, they couldn't care less as Pakistan is just a vacation resort for them.
You can see his language how much he really cares. Calling me dumb and stupid for believing in IK and blaming me. I guess he doesn't know what Islam thinks, if i am the stupid one or Imran Khan is when he will have to answer for his promises.
I have stopped giving any importance to these people. They're akin to me be very rude to some Nigerian insulting him calling him names meanwhile i am sitting in Pakistan without a care that there's an ebola outbreak happening there.
Don't also forget that many people are on payroll of PTI in other countries and that's why you see them be so vicious. In real life, you will not see anyone resort to such vile and rude behaviour because someone speaks bad against Hakim e waqt. Because they are normal people not media cell workers.
Surely all that was missing from this thread was a highly educated quality comment such as above. Vielen dank fur deinen beitrag.
Clearly you have some financial knowledge but your attitude is very unpleasant. I'm currently working from home, I'm taking a break, am logged into bloomberg terminal remotely. Let me know what you which rate you're looking at, I'll have realtime market data.
LIBOR is lower on previous months, as are rates in general. Sure, but markets were troubled initially on the back of risk sentiment. Yields are low because of QE and central bank intervention in markets. APP's are continuing in Europe, Fed has stepped in US markets, PEPP is a new programme from the ECB. This is the reason yields are low, there are wider macroeconomic trends that have lowered it historically, but nothing unique from the perspective that you're using here.
Also, why are you quoting LIBOR? We don't borrow anywhere near LIBOR, EURIBOR, etc. Our sovereign debt is still expensive, latest Iss price I see is 92.8863, with yield at 7.68%, don't mislead people by suggesting we're borrowing anywhere near a lowered LIBOR rate, PAKTB 2 years ago was being priced around the same. In fact, just having looked at some Q2 2018 zero cpn 6M PAKTB, issue yield then was 6.35% whereas the latest issuance has 7.845% yield. So what exactly are you claiming here? Borrowing is cheaper for us? It's clearly not, and where it is relative to another time period, it's for a whole host of reasons, none of which contribute to this argument.
I think you are trying to put a positive spin on this when in fact, it's just a case of IK doing what exactly other Pakistani government has done since time immemorial; borrow to finance when in need is pressing. It has nothing to do with false perceptions of ability to borrow really cheaply. Also, your quote of raw yields, are you a finance guy? If you are, I'm guessing you aren't in fixed income. Cheap and expensive is not in terms of raw yield, it's usually spread vs xyz, measure, whether that's mid-swaps, LIBOR/EURIBOR etc, or comparable sovereigns. Our debt is not cheap, and this borrowing has nothing much at all to do with low yields that have resulted from CB intervention in Europe and elsewhere. @Nilgiri
Last of all, I'd ask you to tone down this sort of rhetoric:
Knowing something that others might not is not license to make such disparaging remarks. I have responded to your post without belittling you I hope, and keeping it respectful. Pls let's keep that for all members. Thanks.
Brother, in simple English can you explain the debt situation, and the new govt's response, and where does it leave the common man?
Good post.
I will be having minimal presence in this forum henceforth, but you my friend can tag me and if I have anything to add or respond (nothing in this case), I will when I get to it.
That is fine. Atleast people have Metro Train of $4 billion and roads ka jaal.
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