PAK pilots on Sukhoi's

[MastanKhan]

Piston engines are more reliable than jet engines........and so would a $50 pack of juice be less in quality than a $100 bottle of wine of the same quantity????

Sir,

No----piston engines are not more reliable than the jet engines----american jet engine go between what 3----4000 hours now!!!

Here is a quote from aviation maintenance---


"Piston engine TBO is predominantly predetermined by their manufacturers, based on a combination of their hours of service and their age," explained Victor Sloan, president of Victor Aviation Service in Palo Alta, California. "Two thousand hours between overhauls is a pretty common requirement, assuming that the engine has been properly maintained in the interim. As well, Lycoming and TCM recommend that their engines be overhauled every 12 years, regardless of the number of hours on the engine."

 

[nightcrawler]

I said this before:...

Look at the piston engines they have (while operating) many opposing forces that are at work simultaneously...ponder over the pull/push movement of the pistons..
Also the idea that piston engines have many moving parts & thus are relatively unreliable also is wrong because there are no less moving parts in turbine engines too...lots of fan/compressor blades. However the most important point is that their occurs no opposing forces...

A tubine engine may have say, 500 turbine and compressor blades in it, if any one were to fail it could cause a flame-out and rundown.

Also, there's nothing intrinsic about the piston engine which makes it less reliable, but you have to compare like with like. For the same power / weight ratio a piston engine is likely to be much more highly stressed since its thermal cycle is less efficient and not continuous. (~~frm thermodynamic point of view)(in fact you can't build an piston engine with as good a power/weight ratio as a gt)

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I dunno but it looks like we , are gettin em Flankers

 

[lcloo]

Let set the record right. Those PLAAF Flankers are SU-27UBK, two seat conversion fighter made in Russia and imported by China along with the first batches of SU-27. One of the pilot would be an instructor while the other would be a trainee. This is not a fighter bomber like the Su-30MK series, it is air superiority fighter.

 

[Tajdar adil]

if already exist than merge it

these are posted on BR by DON

It means Pakistan getting these Jets...
Am i right...

 

[krash]

It means Pakistan getting these Jets...
Am i right...

Well not. necessarily.......we might just be trying to judge its capabilities more aptly considering the fact that a version of this bird is operated in our eastern neighborhood.

 

[zombieland]

What a wastage of time and effort by our PAF. Instead could have practiced more sorties on our own flankers. A BIG to this thread.

 

[Mani2020]

What a wastage of time and effort by our PAF. Instead could have practiced more sorties on our own flankers. A BIG to this thread.

When do we have flankers lol? We don't posses any flankers , and how could it be a wastage of time considering both probabilities of inducting it in PN or not, if PN is inducting it then obviously they need training on these birds, coz every aircraft is different to fly needs different type of training in order to exploit the bird in the best possible way, and even if PN is not inducting them then it will still give PAF the know how about its capabilities and weak points so they can exploit its weak points in a case of war with our eastern neighbors as they posses a substantial fleet of flankers thought might be more advanced in avionics etc but still not a bad ride by PAF

In both cases we have to be thankful to China and PLAAF that they trust us so much that they provide us inside out of their all birds, no airforce other than PLAAF would have allowed this

 

[Ahmad Abdullah Ravian]

Whatever it is , there are few parallel examples of such extent mutual co-operation between two countries

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[SBD-3]

What a wastage of time and effort by our PAF. Instead could have practiced more sorties on our own flankers. A BIG to this thread.

It not a combat training on Sukhois, its more of a friendly gesture. I dont know why do we try to make things out of nothing. If i am test driving a car does not necessarily means I will buy it. If at all a combat tarining would have been aimed, there would have quietly sent a bunch of pilots to PLAN combat school to train over Sukhois

 

[araz]

Guys
Lets not get ahead of the game. By the way PAF has already tried and evaluated the SU series from ukraine much earlier than this. The MKI has avionics and other changes which make its handling slighlty different but in general terms, barring minor differences, it would be similar to the originals. As to avionics and other suites, things have moved on from the 2000s and avionics are more advanced in any case and hence India is looking at upgrading these birds.
Whether PAF/PN gets these birds or not is something that needs to be seen. we also need to assess how FC20 fulfills our needs and what PAFs assesment of the bird is. So a lot more questions at the moment than answers. Whatever one might say it is one beautiful bird.
Araz

 

[shehbazi2001]

In the past, PAF has been evaluating adversary fighters like Hunters and arranged joint exercises with Royal Air Force in which Sabres and Hunters faced each other. These guns-only dogfights were sufficient in 1960s because both India and Pakistan Air Forces did not possess many air to air missiles or airborne radars or jammers.

F-7s, Mirages and F-16s have been pitted against other fighters in exercises which is a good step but in the current scenario, it would be better to go a step ahead like the establishement of an aggressor flight, if not a squadron. This would ensure a sufficient training against the missiles, radars and jammers carried by adversary fighters in addition to their flight envelopes.

This aggressor flight can consist of two Su-30, two Mig-29s and two jaguars. Mig-29 can be replaced by Mirage-2000 too. Current multi-national excercises may not cover all elements of air combat like Indian AF did not use the radars of its Su-30s in Red Flag in USA. We also do not know whether PAF pilots are trained against R-73, R-77 and ASRAAM missiles.

These fighters can be actively used in HighMark Exercises of PAF and made part of Combat Commanders School (CCS) syllabus.

This flight shall not only have a peacetime training role but shall also participate in actual war scenario. They may actually be better suited for some special missions because they may be confused with local fighters at least in visual recognition because IFF shall still make it impossible to mask foe as friendly.

This element can also prove helpful in dogfights during war. During a dogfight between PAF F-16s and IAF Su-30s, own Su-30s can be sent in to mix in the dogfight and thus gain higher chances of shooting down opposite Su-30s. Confusion can occur when you have to decide in seconds.

 

[SQ8]

Any attempts in the past to obtain Sukhoi's or Migs have been aggressively opposed by India.
Currently, our DACT with Su-30's will have to be met by the Chinese. perhaps a lend/lease program of Su-30MKK's would be a good option.
Mig-29 training is another problem, there are very few available mig-29's that would be available in the condition needed for stressful DACT.

The jaguar is a very unlikely purchase.. if anything.. the JH-7 can emulate the jaguar for our needs.

There was news of a dedicated Aggressor sq being stood up apart from the ones at CCS.
Dont have much info on anything after the initial news.

 

[Markus]

This element can also prove helpful in dogfights during war. During a dogfight between PAF F-16s and IAF Su-30s, own Su-30s can be sent in to mix in the dogfight and thus gain higher chances of shooting down opposite Su-30s. Confusion can occur when you have to decide in seconds.

Sorry but am not sure on the above part.

Sukhois (atleast those of IAF) are part of IAF's networked command system. Actually its not difficult to tell as to which pane is your and which is not.

Sukhoi's can interlink with each other and can operate as mini-AWACS themselves.

So I am not sure about Fulcrums and Jaguars, but somewhat sure that Su's cannot be mixed so easily with the enemy fleet.

 

[SQ8]

Sorry but am not sure on the above part.

Sukhois (atleast those of IAF) are part of IAF's networked command system. Actually its not difficult to tell as to which pane is your and which is not.

Sukhoi's can interlink with each other and can operate as mini-AWACS themselves.

So I am not sure about Fulcrums and Jaguars, but somewhat sure that Su's cannot be mixed so easily with the enemy fleet.

I am not sure how the mini-AWACS thing is relevant, but in a WVR mixup, with a similar visual scheme.. it is possible for pilots to mistake a grey su-30 with another similarly colored grey su-30. IR seekers with the HMS o not differentiate.. and unless the pilots keep glancing into the cockpit to see their SA picture. There will be mistakes. on both sides, since PAF forces could mistake their own Su-30s for the IAF ones.
Has happened before as well, IAF has almost shotdown its own canberra's mistaking them for B-57's.. and A EB-57 was shot down by PAf gunners mistaking it for a canberra. it could happen back then with all the time to spare.. chances are that it could happen today in the heat of the moment.