PAK pilots on Sukhoi's

[Zabaniyah]

Both F-15 and Su 27 were designed at the time when both USA and USSR had a little technological gap...

The USSR lost that technological advantage after its collapse. The MKI uses many Western subsystems, much of them from France and Israel. The Algerian variant uses many French sub systems.

again on the broad picture you still didn't consider the options like the rear facing radar, ability to fire weapons behind, Longer ranged IRST, ability to datalink and use each other radar data.... and many other things which the Su 30MKI has and the F-15 doesn't even the senior USAF pilots have openly admitted in public that Su 30MKI is over all a better plane than F-16s and F-15s.

Source for the bold part please. And no exercises.

Aerodynamic factor is still very important and forms the basis of structure which is modeled on the user requirements for Americans... stealth and for Russians super maneuverability.

I'd rather maintain a low profile. And it is better to make it difficult for your enemy to see you.

That was for your views that F-15 have a larger scope for expansion.... while Su 27 have had more variants... for different purposes... such a Su 27, Su 30MKK, Su 37, Su 35BM, Su 33, Su 34 to name a few prominent ones... the expense is there in the case of Su 30 also... depending on the package user wants it to have...

And what does that prove?

Don't see much of a future for silent eagle... However would like to remind you that a similar upgrade program for flankers was also proposed but dropped since no customer was found for it..

The Chinese are apparently working on something like that.

The Saudis have displayed interest in the Silent Eagle.

Again you didn't mention the flanker variant....the Su 30MKI has higher T/W ratio and Su 35BM has even higher.

NO.

Thurst to Weight Ratios of all Fighters

But yes, you are right, the SU-35BM scores the highest in that category.

 

[SQ8]

Unrelated but fairly cool.. A F-35's DAS tracks a rocket launch. So much for the Russian's touted OLS.. this is the tech of tomorrow.

 

[DARKY]

Darky,

You guys are going around in circles-----bottomline----what is the max speed that the su 30 can activate the tvc, do the reverse 180 flip and the pilot can bear the G forces---and the plane does not tear apart----. That is simple physics.

To the other guy-----the underdogs never under perform---it was your first chance to show your stuff and you out did yourself---you wanted to show the americans that you are no less than the pakistanis or anyone else---they welcomed you with open arms and absorbed all that you had to give---.

When the americans admit that you have a better plane than them---means that they have analyzed what you got----here is how they look at you----on a scale of 1----to---10----they are a 10------. They assess at you at a 3---to---5 at max performance----exceptional 6---to---7. If you come within that range of 6--7, they will tell you that you are the superstars----the best thing that happened after vanilla ice cream and apple pie----. But they don't tell you that you are superstars only in your own minds----for they will come and get you and take you out in their own way---.

Remember the first gulf war---when the israelis wanted to strike iraqi targets---the u s had to stop them---for the israelis were not upto par with what the americans were doing and would bog the americans down----. Just think about that for a moment.

But---enough said-----you insist you have what it takes to take on the americans---then I say yes----you have what it takes to stand upto them---more power to you---I hope to see some fireworks to prove your point---.

When TVC is applied the throttle is reduced automatically... If not reduced by the pilot... the question what you must be asking here is how long does it take the MKI to recover from such a maneuver(law of inertia)... same with any flying object be it a missile, UCAV..etc with TVC looses the speed when TVC is applied.... however the quicker they recover the better they utilize TVC on their respective engines.

They had their chances in Cope-Indias also... Red Flag was accepted mainly to give an international experience to young ones and show the level of professionalism of the best in the business besides... It was also a recce operation where they gathered data on western electronic some which they could face against their western neighbors.... What kind of showoff is possible when your radar is in training mode along with no IFF... and AWACS support... They did perform good... and exceptionally well in some cases... while they had some trouble with F-15 one-on-one face off.... the Rafael had a hard time catching them... the level of experiences can be assumed from the fact that the pilots most of the time had 3-4 years experience on their birds while the USAF were generally 10 year old veterans.

Americans definitely have an upper hand with numerical and technological superiority... It would take then 2 years to roll out the 1st squadron of a TVC canard equipped stealthy F-15 having inter weapon bays and would have a couple of hundreds in 5 years..... exceptional speed thanks to their Industrial base.... besides they also employ a great number of force multipliers which is generally not the case with any other airforce in the world... for example the use of satellite surveillance, Stealth fighters and bombers, dedicated electronic attack aircrafts and AWACS fleet... which make their job easier and cost effective... hence their pilots can say Do we need them ??... unlike many other airforces who are cheating themselves by repeating the same..

I never said we have the things to compete the whole AF... however equipment wise its an open book for every one to analyze.. on one-on one basis... same with the capabilities offered.

 

[DARKY]

The USSR lost that technological advantage after its collapse. The MKI uses many Western subsystems, much of them from France and Israel. The Algerian variant uses many French sub systems.

Thats specifically in accordance to what customer requires and asks... It not that Russians don't have such sub-systems... see Su 35BM for example.

Source for the bold part please. And no exercises.

Look for the famous lecture by that USAF colonel on Red flag 2008 and Su 30MKI flankers....

I'd rather maintain a low profile. And it is better to make it difficult for your enemy to see you.

As I said depending on the doctrine.... Stealth doesn't make you invisible.

And what does that prove?

Su 27 have also the same amount of expansion scope than what F-15 design offers.... If not more and has been appreciated and adopted more... the more you're willing to pay the better package you get in both cases.

The Chinese are apparently working on something like that.

The Saudis have displayed interest in the Silent Eagle.

The Chinese are apparently working on almost all Failed or unadopted Russian projects...
F-35 shows better future currently.

NO.

Thurst to Weight Ratios of all Fighters

But yes, you are right, the SU-35BM scores the highest in that category.

I don't know which engine has been considered for Su 30MKI but it looks to be Al-31FP... which has been replaced by Al-31-FN with 135kN net thrust output in full AB mode... which would perhaps bring MKI close to EF2000... however they are again being replaced with Al-31FN-M-2/3 which have outputs similar to that which Item 117S/C offers on Su 35BM.... and composites are being used against heavier titanium hence expect Higher ratios in near future.

 

[MastanKhan]

MK, They told us that we are 'super stars' and got better stuff than them..and you think we believed that? Are our planners/strategists are so dump? can't we 'analyze?'

Hi,

Not at this stage---it was the first encounter on the american soil---your analysts and planners are will possibly be not sure how to take it----was it for real or was it made up----. With the americans you never know---till the day they come to get you----.

This is my sincere and honest opinion---if I was in any other position ( if I had a different flag )---I would say the same thing to you---.

 

[rockstarIN]

Hi,

Not at this stage---it was the first encounter on the american soil---your analysts and planners are will possibly be not sure how to take it----was it for real or was it made up----. With the americans you never know---till the day they come to get you----.

This is my sincere and honest opinion---if I was in any other position ( if I had a different flag )---I would say the same thing to you---.

Anyway I disagree, there were no Raptor vs MKI...only F-16 & F-15s were present from American side. Both of us were not flying against the each other's machines for the first time. We knew F-15s & F-16s so were Americans. And nobody will deploy their best in terms of electronic as well as tactics against each other in training exercises.

Thx

---------- Post added at 01:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 AM ----------

Hi,

Not at this stage---it was the first encounter on the american soil---your analysts and planners are will possibly be not sure how to take it----was it for real or was it made up----. With the americans you never know---till the day they come to get you----.

This is my sincere and honest opinion---if I was in any other position ( if I had a different flag )---I would say the same thing to you---.

Anyway I disagree, there were no Raptor vs MKI...only F-16 & F-15s were present from American side. Both of us were not flying against the each other's machines for the first time. We knew F-15s & F-16s so were Americans. And nobody will deploy their best in terms of electronic as well as tactics against each other in training exercises.

Thx

 

[SQ8]

Darky

the answer to that query

I assume you speak of the Su-35 and T-50 (PAK-FA), and I think they have vertical and lateral vectoring, with left and right engine having independent movement. Considering three axis stability, pitch, roll, and yaw, I don't see any advantage for widely spaced engines for pitch and yaw. Of course, TV can give additional control power, but the wide space adds nothing. In roll, wide spacing can provide additional control power, but roll stability is generally not an issue. So, unless your colleague is thinking of some other mode of stability, I must agree with you that wide spacing makes no significant difference.

So stability in the supersonic regime is no advantage for wide spacing.

---------- Post added at 02:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 PM ----------

Hi,

Indeed---quality, reliability and friendly interphase has a value of its own---which can be termed as a force multiplier as well.

Santro---I didn't know that the MKI's cockpit was shaped along the lines of M2k-----well---I guess it says it all---similiar controls---ease of operation---makes it very easy to switch from one aircraft to the next.

Sorry MK.. I actually meant to write that the MKI's pit was NOT shaped along the lines of the M2K.
Because if it was, you would see people having to reach behind their back to use a switch...

 

[paritosh]

Unrelated but fairly cool.. A F-35's DAS tracks a rocket launch. So much for the Russian's touted OLS.. this is the tech of tomorrow.

dude..infrared threat detectors(i dont know what the technical name is) onboard a plane is a common thing in most of the modern planes...it's like a last ditch counter-measure...against passive missiles...to detect the IR signature of their exhaust plumes...when all else fails...correct me if I am wrong.

 

[SQ8]

dude..infrared threat detectors(i dont know what the technical name is) onboard a plane is a common thing in most of the modern planes...it's like a last ditch counter-measure...against passive missiles...to detect the IR signature of their exhaust plumes...when all else fails...correct me if I am wrong.

This isnt only an IR detector as such(although it does that too).

 

[DARKY]

Darky

the answer to that query



So stability in the supersonic regime is no advantage for wide spacing.

Thanks for the time taken...
3D TVC on engines having space is more utilized... while the recovery is also better.... stability I would take the words of the person.
And the position of that switched was changed after Jaisalmer Crash.

 

[Super Falcon]

Sukhoi is leading fighter jet producers real killers like these man

 

[manojb]

on the 300th post already, anyone tell me the relevance of current posts to the thread.

should we change the subject to SU-30 good or bad

on topic: it appears that PAF pilots did the right thing by flying thse aircrafts. well thats the impression I get from the Indian posts.

Title should be changed to "Is PAK pilots still on Sukhoi's?" or "Is sukhoi still on PAK pilots mind?". LOL. But this is very informative topic. was there any feed back from pak pilots on tvc performance, i guess not.

In laymans lingo TVC is like manual stearing v/s power steering.

 

[skybolt]

In March 2011 a joint Sino-Pakistani exercise, Shaheen 1, was conducted at a Pakistan Air Force (PAF) base involving a contingent of Chinese aircraft and personnel from the PLAAF. Information on which aircraft were used by each side in the exercise was not released, but photos of Pakistani pilots inspecting what appeared to be Chinese Shenyang J-11B fighters were released on the internet. The exercise lasted for around 4 weeks and was the first time the PLAAF had deployed to and conducted "operational" aerial maneuvers in Pakistan with the PAF.

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 PM ----------

“Shaheen 1” Exercise Signals Expansion of China-Pakistan Alliance