Pak Navy shows interest in Umkhonto (Surface-to-air Missile System)

[RedRock]

Yes. Specifically the Northern and Baltic fleets:

The Northern Fleet:

11th Squadron, Zaozersk

• • TYPHOON-class SSBN Dmitriy Donskoy (ТК-208) (Nerpichya)
  • Two other Typhoon class submarines are assigned to this squadron but are not active.
• 7th Division, Vidyaevo
  • Commander
    • RADM Aleksandr Ildashov
  • SIERRA I-class SSN Kostroma
  • SIERRA II-class SSN Nizhniy Novgorod
  • SIERRA II-class SSN Pskov (K-336)
  • VICTOR-III-class SSN Daniil Moskovskiy (K-414)
• other submarines

• 12th Squadron, Gadzhiyevo
  • • Commander
      • RADM Sergey Farkov
  • 31st Submarine Division (Yagelnaya Bay, Sayda Inlet)
    • Commander
      • Captain 1st Rank Aleksandr Moiseyev
    • Delta class submarine IV-class SSBN Verkhoturye (K-51)
    • Delta IV-class SSBN Ekaterinburg (K-84)
    • Delta IV-class SSBN Tula (K-114)
    • Delta IV-class SSBN Bryansk (K-117)
    • Delta IV-class SSBN Kareliya (K-18)
    • Delta IV-class SSBN Novomoskovsk (K-407)
    • Borei class SSBN K-535 Yuriy Dolgorukiy
  • 24th Submarine Division (Yagelnaya Bay, Sayda Inlet)
    • Commanders
      • Jul 1985-Oct 1987 VADM Vladimir Mikhaylovich Monastyrshin
      • Oct 1987-Dec 1989 VADM Nikolay Ivanovich Mazin
      • Dec 1989-Jun 1992 RADM Boris Sergeyevich Bogdanov
      • Sep 1992-Jun 1996 RADM Sergey Anatolyevich Bliznyuk
      • Jun 1996-Sep 1998 RADM Aleksandr Nikolayevich Bukin
      • Sep 1998-Aug 2000 RADM Aleksey Vitalyevich Burilichev
      • Aug 2000-xxx 200x RADM Vladimir Ivanovich Korolev
      • xxx 200x-present RADM Anatoliy Minakov
    • Akula class submarine I-class SSN Pantera (K-317)
    • AKULA I-class SSN Volk (K-461)
    • AKULA I-class SSN Leopard (K-328)
    • AKULA I-class SSN Tigr (K-154)
    • AKULA II-class SSN Vepr (K-157)
    • AKULA II-class SSN Gepard (K-335)

• 43rd Missile Ship Division
  • • Commanders
      • RADM Veregin
      • RADM Avakyants
      • RADM Kasatonov
      • Present - RADM Aleksandr Turilin
  • KUZNETSOV-class CV Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Kuznetsov (063)
  • KIROV-class CGN Pyotr Velikiy (099)
  • SLAVA-class CG Marshal Ustinov (055)
  • SOVREMENNYY-class DDG Gremyashchiy
  • SOVREMENNYY-class DDG Admiral Ushakov
• 2nd Anti-Submarine Ship Division
  • UDALOY-I Class DD Vice Admiral Kulakov - post-overhaul trials
  • UDALOY-I Class DD Severomorsk
  • UDALOY-I Class DD Admiral Levchenko
  • UDALOY-I Class DD Admiral Kharlamov
  • UDALOY-II Class DD Admiral Chabanenko

• • 4th Submarine Flotilla (Polyarnyy)
    • Commander
      • Captain 1st Rank Aleksandr Gorbunov
    • Kilo class submarine-class SS Novosibirsk (B-401)
    • KILO-class SS Vologda" (B-402)
    • KILO-class SS Yaroslavl (B-808)
    • KILO-class SS Kaluga (B-800)
    • KILO-class SS Vladikavkaz (B-459)
    • KILO-class SS Magnitogorsk (B-471)
    • KILO-class SS Lipetsk (B-177)

• Aviation Forces
  • 924th Independent Maritime Reconnaissance Aviation Regiment - HQ at Olenegorsk/Olenya - Tu-22M3;
  • 279th Shipborne Fighter Aviation Regiment - HQ at Severomorsk-3 - Su-25UTG, Su-33;
  • 73rd Independent Air Squadron - HQ at Kipelovo (Fedotovo) - Tu-142MK, Tu-142MR;
  • 403rd Independent Mixed Aviation Regiment - HQ at Severomorsk-1 - An-12, An-26, Il-38, Tu-134;
  • 830th Independent Shipborne Anti-Submarine Helicopter Regiment - HQ at Severomorsk-1 - Ka-27;

• Naval Infantry and Coastal Defence

The Baltic Fleet:

12th Surface ship Division

• 128th Surface ship Brigade
  • Pylkiy (Krivak-class frigate) (702) (Navy Commander issued an order to write off the ship in 2012)
  • Nastoychivyy (610) (Sovremenny-class destroyer) (1992)
  • Bespokoynyy (620) (Sovremenny-class destroyer)
  • Neustrashimyy (Neustrashimyy-class frigate)
  • Yaroslav Mudryy (Neustrashimyy-class frigate)
  • Steregushchiy (530) (Steregushchy-class corvette)
  • Soobrazitelnyy (531) (Steregushchy-class corvette)
  • Boikiy (532) (Steregushchy-class corvette)
  • Stoikiy (545) (Steregushchy-class corvette)
• 71st Order of the Red Star Landing Ship Brigade (Baltiysk)
  • Korolev (130) (Ropucha class LST)
  • Minsk (122) (Ropucha class LST)
  • Kaliningrad (102) (Ropucha class LST)
  • Aleksandr Shabalin (110) (Ropucha class LST)
  • Evgeniy Kocheshkov (770) (Zubr-class LCAC)
  • Mordoviya (782) (Zubr-class LCAC)

Leningrad Naval Base

• 123rd Submarine Brigade
  • 1 Lada-class submarine
    • B-585 Sankt Peterburg
  • 2 Kilo-class submarines
• 105th Naval Region Protection Brigade
  • 144th Tactical Group (Kronshtadt) ex 109th ASW ships div
    • 308 MPK 99 Zelenodolsk (Parchim-class corvette)
    • 304 MPK 192 Urengoy (Parchim-class corvette)
    • 311 MPK 205 Kazanets (Parchim-class corvette)
  • 145th Tactical Group (Kronshtadt) ex-22nd Red Banner Minesweeper Battalion
    • BT 115 (561) (Sonya-class minesweeper)
    • PDKA 89 PDKA 910 RChT 702 (353) RChT 61 (324) RT 57 (316) RT 248 (348)

Baltyysk Naval Base

• 64th Maritime Region Protection Brigade
  • 146th Tactical Group (former 264th Anti-submarine Warfare Battalion, Project 1331)
    • 218 MPK-224 Aleksin (Parchim-class corvette)
    • 232 MPK-229 Kalmykiya (Parchim-class corvette)
    • 233 MPK-227 (Parchim-class corvette)
    • 245 MPK-105 (Parchim-class corvette)
  • 147th, 148th Tactical Groups (former 323rd Minesweeper Division)
    • 4 Sonya-class minesweepers
• 36th Red Banner Order of Nakhimov Missile Ship Brigade
  • 1st Guards Missile Boat Battalion
  • 106th Small Missile Ship Battalion - attached from 1 June 1994. (Project 1234)
    • Liven' (551) (Nanuchka-class corvette)
    • Geyzer (555) (Nanuchka-class corvette)
    • Zyb' (560) (Nanuchka-class corvette)
    • Passat (570) (Nanuchka-class corvette)

Ships whose unit allocation is not precisely known

• 2 Ondatra-class landing ships
• 1 Serna-class landing ship
• 7 Tarantul-class corvettes
• 4 Pauk-class corvette
• 1 Natya-class minesweeper - not listed by warfare.be
• 6 Lida-class minesweepers

Naval Aviation (2007):

• HQ: Kaliningrad
• 689th Independent Fighter Aviation Regiment – Kaliningrad Chkalovsk – operating Su-27;
• 4th Independent Naval Assault Aviation Regiment – Chernyakhovsk Air Base – operating Su-24M/MR;
• 125th Independent Helicopter Squadron – HQ at Chkalovsk – operating Mi-8, Mi-24 (this was the former 288th Independent Helicopter Regt of the 11th Guards Army and used to be at Nivenskoye);
• 396th Independent Shipborne Anti-Submarine Helicopter Squadron – Donskoye Air Base – Ka-27/PS, Ka-29;
• 398th Independent Air Transport Squadron – HQ at Khrabrovo – An-2, An-12, An-24, An-26, Be-12, Mi-8.

Damn, that's a lot of firepower.



Norway's opponent isn't India. That's correct. But they've a threat equal in size and strength facing off against them.

It's Russia - these are photos that have been taken by Norwegian military photogs of Russian military systems in and around Norwegian water:

The two nations, Pakistan and Norway, face a similar threat profile. Out matched and overstretched with naval assets unable to provide long-range cover for themselves and thus operate closer to shore and act as coastal defense platforms, all while under the cover of land-based air-defense assets like the F-16 or JF-17.

i know this is sort of off topic, but, how i wish we had developed good military relations with Norway or even Sweden. What a waste. You were right next door fighting/advising in the war on terror, along with 40+ other nations and we squandered the opportunities. Our naval chief could have been in Norway right now looking at the NSM developed by Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace (KDA), if we had played our cards right.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Does Norway not come under NATO? If the answer is yes than shouldn't we be looking at the combine military capability of Norway and uncle SAM against Russian Northern and Baltic fleet?

Norway does come under NATO protection, but that doesn't preclude it having its own defense strategy. With or without US protection, Norway's role is going to remain the same - homeland defense - and its procurement policies reflect this.

Frigates outfitted with medium-range SAMs:

Interceptor aircraft (the F-35 is coming):

Maritime patrol aircraft:

Coastal protection missile torpedo boats:

Medium-range SAM batteries:

Regardless of US involvement, Norway's defense doctrine is defensive. Likewise, because of its defense policies, despite being a NATO partner, and due to its limit geographic area and defense budget, Denmark has a requirement to protect its coastling with a limited number of air-defense vessels. Because the number of these vessels is limited, they need a longer-ranged air-defense missile to compensate.

As a result the Iver Huitfeldt class frigates are outfitted with SM-2:

Being expeditionary forces, both Britian and France, also NATO partners, have requirements that differ from, say, Germany or Poland. Being part of NATO means you have the luxury of assistance from a well equipped force. But it doesn't mean you forgo your own defense policies either.

With NATO you contribute what you can, and NATO makes it work within its own defense doctrine. But NATO nations procure equipment based on their own national defense goals, not NATOs.

i know this is sort of off topic, but, how i wish we had developed good military relations with Norway or even Sweden.

I'd like to see better relations develop too. Both Sweden and Norway have a lot to offer Pakistan economically and militarily. The Archer artillery system, RBS-15 and Naval Strike Missile, F-16s that are being replaced or even Gripen. From tanks to small arms and naval patrol boats and MPAs, there's much we could offer you.

But it takes stronger relations and it is a shame such haven't developed for one reason or another.

 

[RAMPAGE]

@T-123456 @Sinan @cabatli_53

Will you guys equip your TF-100s with CAFRAD sensor suite?

 

[-SINAN-]

@T-123456 @Sinan @cabatli_53

Will you guys equip your TF-100s with CAFRAD sensor suite?

Fvck that.... spread the news....i'm very happy.

*********************************
- Turkey principally agreed to buy Super-Mushshak from Pakistan.
- 4 Milgems will be built in Pakistan, Turkey agreed to give 400$ Million credit to Pakistan.
- 3 Agosta Class submarines of Pakistan will be modernized in Turkey, deal expected to be signed in this month.

Spread the news bro.

http://www.dunyabulteni.net/dunya/366115/milli-savunma-bakani-isik-pakistanda

 

[RAMPAGE]

Fvck that.... spread the news....i'm very happy.

*********************************
- Turkey principally agreed to buy Super-Mushshak from Pakistan.
- 4 Milgems will be built in Pakistan, Turkey agreed to give 400$ Million credit to Pakistan.
- 3 Agosta Class submarines of Pakistan will be modernized in Turkey, deal expected to be signed in this month.

Spread the news bro.

http://www.dunyabulteni.net/dunya/366115/milli-savunma-bakani-isik-pakistanda

Mashallah! Allah Hu Akbar

Finally something substantial. I'll pray for Turkey in Taraweeh and drink to it on the eve of Eid!

 

[Basel]

Fvck that.... spread the news....i'm very happy.

*********************************
- Turkey principally agreed to buy Super-Mushshak from Pakistan.
- 4 Milgems will be built in Pakistan, Turkey agreed to give 400$ Million credit to Pakistan.
- 3 Agosta Class submarines of Pakistan will be modernized in Turkey, deal expected to be signed in this month.

Spread the news bro.

http://www.dunyabulteni.net/dunya/366115/milli-savunma-bakani-isik-pakistanda

great news if true. is ADA & Miligem are same? Because a thread on PDF that PN is interested n ADA class ships of Turkey.

 

[-SINAN-]

great news if true. is ADA & Miligem are same? Because a thread on PDF that PN is interested n ADA class ships of Turkey.

Yeap.

 

[Basel]

Yeap.

will those ships does with Hisar SAMS and AESA radar? Please share some specs. Why PN not going for bigger ships?

 

[S.Y.A]

The threat assessment for Norway and Pakistan are quite different, Pakistan faces an enemy much larger in its size and one which holds a blue water capability. PAF will be too stretched out countering the IAF to provide any decent air cover to PN surface fleet. Besides JF-17 lacks the range required to successfully provide an effective air cover. The range is a major handicap. IN can very well stay out of the range of Pakistani costal missile defense batteries as well as the range of JF-17 and still will be able to place blockade near karachi. There is no alternative to a decent surface fleet with its own air defence which includes its own air force.
My 2 cents

no it cant. cm-400-akg and the land based anti ship missile acquired by PN have ranges of more than 200km. apart from that gwadar is about to get operational. and navy's fleet will be shifted to ormara. PAF has other assets to counter IAF, 1-2 squadrons placed at karachi are exclusively for naval support role. 4 chinese awacs are placed at karachi as well. and then there are P3Cs, who I believe can be armed with harpoons.

 

[Penguin]

Thats a pretty long list. I have another question for you if i am not taking too much of your time. Does Norway not come under NATO? If the answer is yes than shouldnt we be looking at the combine military capability of Norway and uncle SAM against Russian Northern and Baltic fleet?

This is what happens. Traditionally UK + Dutch marines as well as a Marine Expeditionary Brigade would be landed in Norway in immediate ground support, for example

 

[Danish saleem]

Not all Tariq class are equipped with a SAM system, just 3 of the 6 were refitted with the 18 km range Chinese LY-60. The other 3 got Harpoon missiles. All got CIWS
This is a semi-active radar homing (SARH) missile, like Aspide and Sea Sparrow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LY-60_/_FD-60_/_PL10

All Zulfiquar class ships are fitted with the 15km Chinese HQ-7 / FM-90N. This is a command to line of sight missile (CLOS), like Barak 1 and Sea Wolf.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HQ-7#HQ-7A_.28FM-90.29

Harpoon is not a SAM sir, its anti ship Missile.

 

[Imran Khan]

again short range SAMs waste of more money

 

[Djinn]

- 3 Agosta Class submarines of Pakistan will be modernized in Turkey, deal expected to be signed in this month.


http://www.dunyabulteni.net/dunya/366115/milli-savunma-bakani-isik-pakistanda

What sort of modernization are we talking here? Do you think that Turkey will have some input in tailoring the 8 S20 submarines (which Pakistan will get from China soon) to suit Pakistani requirements?

 

[Basel]

@Penguin will these IR & RF SAMS be good for Miligem (Pakistan expected to purchase) and F-22Ps?? what radar they use and how good they are when compared to similiar SAM systems available in market?? how effective they will be against IN & IAF??

 

[-SINAN-]

will those ships does with Hisar SAMS and AESA radar? Please share some specs. Why PN not going for bigger ships?

CAFRAD and HISARs are not ready.

What sort of modernization are we talking here? Do you think that Turkey will have some input in tailoring the 8 S20 submarines (which Pakistan will get from China soon) to suit Pakistani requirements?

Unfortunetly, i don't know bro, will share when i get the details.