Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

[Mav3rick]

It was Gen.musharaf who controlled the army (read whole country and govt ) so don't tell me that a powerless puppet PM went to America by his own to agree a with drawl of troops.. and your army followed his your PM rather than your general. if nawaz was powerless to stop the army from starting a war what makes you think that he could stop the war?

I will tell you what changed, while starting your general was confident of his plan but in execution he failed and got his *** kicked by Indian army.. international pressure was also building up and his all whether friends also didn't move a finger. so musharaf got no option other than withdrawal from remaining areas.

And therein you lost any credibility, if you ever had any! NS, for information, had over 2/3rd majority in the Parliament and he commanded authority over all of Pakistan including the Military. That's why Musharraf was leapfrogged and made the Army Chief by NS because he could do what ever he wanted to do!

Another reality check, while we are at it, a few thousand fighters were raping your military left, right and centre and there was hardly anything you could do except spread tales of bravado, albeit all based on lies and imaginations. Imaginations such as to depict Indian soldiers, riddled with bullets but still, running after Pakistani tanks with anti Tank mines and Pakistani tanks trying to run away! If only your nation had some sense where Pakistan is concerned.

So what did you do after 30,000 soldiers + special units + artillery + Air Force could not achieve the military objective? You threaten the world with a full scale war and eventual exchange of Nuclear weapons. You kick up a storm worldwide just to make sure that Pakistan's friends also force Pakistan to back down because you could not achieve anything militarily!

As I said earlier, we know you are gutless cowards as otherwise you would not have backed down in 2001/2 against a country 1/7th in population, 1/3rd in military power etc., even today you can not take back point 5353. All you really have going for you is the support in international community, a community that we cannot avoid listening to....otherwise thing would have been very different and you all know it.

Whats with all you indians???It takes people to imagine a great victories in the war.In the real world all imagination falls flat and now you come as guest on the the pakistani forum and here also you dont give pakistanis to imagine in peace and you bombard them with facts and figures.If cant be an ideal enemy to them atleast be an ideal guest.but then manners is not the word known to the indians and you disrespect your host on his own forum with facts and figures.I despise this attitude among indans a lot.

Facts and figures from the movie 'Border' alright! All your figures are based on movies so they are movie facts. Unfortunately kid, Pakistanis are trying to bring in ground facts and figures while you want to bring in all kinds of concocted figures from movies trying to present them as facts. Feel the difference??

 

[ajtr]

You would do well to educate yourself on the facts of the matter before getting emotional.

I'm sure he is old enough to educate himself/herself.Why this clamour from Indians to educate him/her.Are indians insufferable know it all????

 

[karan.1970]

Facts and figures from the movie 'Border' alright! All your figures are based on movies so they are movie facts. Unfortunately kid, Pakistanis are trying to bring in ground facts and figures while you want to bring in all kinds of concocted figures from movies trying to present them as facts. Feel the difference??

Ok.. You win.. In 1971, we lost the war and Bangladesh was carved out of Indian territory that India later propagandized to be Pakistani territory that broke away.. Aw Cr@p.. You busted out secret that we managed to preserve for 41 years

 

[ajtr]

Facts and figures from the movie 'Border' alright! All your figures are based on movies so they are movie facts. Unfortunately kid, Pakistanis are trying to bring in ground facts and figures while you want to bring in all kinds of concocted figures from movies trying to present them as facts. Feel the difference??

Thank god i'm now confident that you know the facts and figures of border Loc bollywood movies.You know i was exhorting the indians the same about why bring in facts and figures when you already know border facts and figures through pirated DVDs.

Ok.. You win.. In 1971, we lost the war and Bangladesh was carved out of Indian territory that India later propagandized to be Pakistani territory that broke away.. Aw Cr@p.. You busted out secret that we managed to preserve for 41 years

you are a prime example of insufferable know it all indian....cease and desist.

 

[Blastermaster]

Kargil was humiliation for Pakistan so much so that they even refused to take back their dead troops.

 

[bronxbull]

He didn't talk about Islamic Rule of India ....

He talked about thousands of years of Islamic Military tradition which , according to Western Scholars , launched wars on the most grandest and most successful scale in the human history...

West only took-over after industrialization , that is last some 300 years etc ....

Anyways , don't get hurt ....



Yes , Pakistan Army was involved ..but on the scale indian army was involved..

We had just 4000 or so troops involved in Kargil conflict...with no PAF support..while you had 30,000 troops , artillery divisions and IAF air cover..had Pakistan escalated the conflict to the same level...Indians would've lost 10X more lives than they did...and would probably have left utterly defeated at Kargil...

Pakistan Army gave up few posts (Tiger Hill) due to IAF bombing...BUT..we kept other strategic indian posts like point 5353 , and three other peaks etc ...

In the end however , Kargil ended at Pakistan's military victory. We conquered Indian strategic posts like 5353 , Saltro Ridge , Dalu Nag etc etc ..and we earned the capability of over-watching your supplies through NH-1D!

Indians gained NOTHING from the conflict ....They only lost ...

Lost land , territory , hill pots , and most of all , numerous soldiers and officers...

Dude,

It is just a religion and your heads/mullahs used it as an excuse to wage war and give you motivation.

If you are proud of that,congratulations.But Military victories are only as good as what you win and keep.

What do you have today? Does anyone give you free food because your apparent clansmen won XYZ 300 years ago.

The west also fought tooth and nail during the crusades and as a matter of fact are your masters today as they have technological advancement over you.

They got you(Arabs that is) out of Spain and whitewashed you off without a trace.

They even have Palestine now and even told you that you have Oil underneath and still have you.

You are right,it was a great tactical masterpiece, typical of a Muhajjir General to screw the Indians behind their backs and send Pakistani Soldiers up the peaks in winter.Congratulations.

But why did you fail then? You got one peak 5353,we dont know whether it was ours before,but nonetheless congratulations.

Your goal is to get Kashmir,get the water and the dams and the electricity.

why are you debating Ifs & Buts here?

If Prithviraj chauhan had cut Ghori's head off,i may not have to be listening to you today.

Or if Hitler did not attack Russia, he would have won the war.

Ifs & Buts exist in every military victory and political and diplomatic victories are as real as anything else.

The first Muslims won in Delhi with their technology much more than anything else,go read up.

It is not a kushti match to fight with a refree.

You are free to feel proud about anything else.

But for me,i am happy about the kargil war because it made the priorities of the Indian government clear and the public also are now clear about how and why pakistan should never be trusted.

Regarding Land,i dont think you won much.We cut your country into two,took Siachen and compared to that this is nothing.

Today we are building a tunnel to connect Srinagar and Leh,so you ll see less and less supplies in the next few years.

After Kargil,you made us learn so many lessons.

In a way,you helped us.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

And therein you lost any credibility, if you ever had any! NS, for information, had over 2/3rd majority in the Parliament and he commanded authority over all of Pakistan including the Military. That's why Musharraf was leapfrogged and made the Army Chief by NS because he could do what ever he wanted to do!

Another reality check, while we are at it, a few thousand fighters were raping your military left, right and centre and there was hardly anything you could do except spread tales of bravado, albeit all based on lies and imaginations. Imaginations such as to depict Indian soldiers, riddled with bullets but still, running after Pakistani tanks with anti Tank mines and Pakistani tanks trying to run away! If only your nation had some sense where Pakistan is concerned.

So what did you do after 30,000 soldiers + special units + artillery + Air Force could not achieve the military objective? You threaten the world with a full scale war and eventual exchange of Nuclear weapons. You kick up a storm worldwide just to make sure that Pakistan's friends also force Pakistan to back down because you could not achieve anything militarily!

As I said earlier, we know you are gutless cowards as otherwise you would not have backed down in 2001/2 against a country 1/7th in population, 1/3rd in military power etc., even today you can not take back point 5353. All you really have going for you is the support in international community, a community that we cannot avoid listening to....otherwise thing would have been very different and you all know it.



Facts and figures from the movie 'Border' alright! All your figures are based on movies so they are movie facts. Unfortunately kid, Pakistanis are trying to bring in ground facts and figures while you want to bring in all kinds of concocted figures from movies trying to present them as facts. Feel the difference??

lol it was the same nawaz with 2/3 majority and command over army who could not stop your general and army from a mis adventure.. so don't tell me about what power nawaz had.
result of the war shows who won and who lost.. we sure has taken some hit because of our position but we have taken back all of the important peeks.
A capable country may uses diplomatic or military powers according to the need and situations. In kargil we used both together and achieved victory ..
if you see the map you will come to know where is point 5353 and how insignificant it is.. we recaptured all other hills and all you got is point 5353 to cheer up against a diplomatic humiliation and failed military action. And before starting the mis adventure your general should have calculated the international pressure especially from your big daddy America.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/kargil-99.htm

 

[ajtr]

Kargil was humiliation for Pakistan so much so that they even refused to take back their dead troops.

Do not spread the lies of indian media here.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I'm sure he is old enough to educate himself/herself.Why this clamour from Indians to educate him/her.Are indians insufferable know it all????

Apologies.

This mistake will not be repeated.

 

[angeldude13]

Do not spread the lies of indian media here.

i would rather believe my brother who was in the army at the time of 99.he told me some bitter truth from the indian side and some from pakistani side.the
a soldier deserve a national hero burial.forget the burial they didn't accepted the dead bodies of there heroes who were fighting an poorly organised war with poorly organised tactics.atleast they deserve a proper burial in there homeland..

 

[ajtr]

i would rather believe my brother who was in the army at the time of 99.he told me some bitter truth from the indian side and some from pakistani side.the
a soldier deserve a national hero burial.forget the burial they didn't accepted the dead bodies of there heroes who were fighting an poorly organised war with poorly organised tactics.atleast they deserve a proper burial in there homeland..

your brother is propagating false propaganda.IA and Intelligence agencies do fight propaganda war and this was one of them.Like alert issued on three lahore businessmen sitting in lahore on being L-e-T terrorists who had entered mumbai by RAW.

Apologies.

This mistake will not be repeated.

I cant tell you good boy!!! as you are much much elder to me and knowledgeable than me.I'm just a rain drop as compared to vast ocean of experience urself.

 

[angeldude13]

your brother is propagating false propaganda.IA and Intelligence agencies do fight propaganda war and this was one of them.Like alert issued on three lahore businessmen sitting in lahore on being L-e-T terrorists who had entered mumbai by RAW.

I cant tell you good boy!!! as you are much much elder to me and knowledgeable than me.I'm just a rain drop as compared to vast ocean of experience urself.

sitting in your home and enjoyin luxuries of life and calling army a bunch of liers.very good buddy.if he wanted to do some sort of propaganda he wouldn't have told me how kargil was an intelligence failure,how much of the soldiers we have lost and from which battalions we have lost the most,which peak we did not managed to conquer and which were the peak who were not manned.

p.s-i can't share that info here so don't ask me to share it

 

[IND151]

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rc...0oCIBA&usg=AFQjCNFDg8-Ch1vDao98BHpCpaXdot4CWQ

 

[ajtr]

sitting in your home and enjoyin luxuries of life and calling army a bunch of liers.very good buddy.if he wanted to do some sort of propaganda he wouldn't have told me how kargil was an intelligence failure,how much of the soldiers we have lost and from which battalions we have lost the most,which peak we did not managed to conquer and which were the peak who were not manned.

p.s-i can't share that info here so don't ask me to share it

Even I've truck load of classified info which i cant share in open forum.infact it can only be shared among selected group of 5 only

 

[KRAIT]

Even I've truck load of classified info which i cant share in open forum.infact it can only be shared among selected group of 5 only

What will you choose, Indian propaganda against other country or other country's people engaged in terrorist attack on Indian soil. How picky you are, Intelligence one mistake about those people, but if they haven't taken action, just like their info was discarded by higher officials during Mumbai attack and these people turned out to be terrorist and killed innocent people.

At one place you defend villagers killing CRPF, Army killing local people and at this place your are ready to take a risk regarding suspect who could be potential terrorist. Its better safe than sorry.

You don't like Indian govt, inteliigence agencies and armed forces, do it, but provide solution for cross border terrorism, protection of our national interests, illegal immigrants and aggressive maneuvers by hostile country making defense pact with our neighbors to encircle us. Its not paranoia, it has been successfully used by many countries.

Provide solutions alternative of what our armed forces and intelligence agencies do.