Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

[Joe Shearer]

I remember Kaiser Tufail was in service during the Kargil time and after one of the meetings of the commanders about kargil operations from the PA he and his airforce buddies were unconvinced about the army palns and after the meeting kaiser tufail's one of the buddy said,"After the war it will either be a court martial or the coup"

And Exactly 3 months after the kargil musharraff did the coup.And This trend always happen after every war between india and pakistan.Jut to keep an eye on this trend mentioned by tufail.

1.Gen.Ayub was deposed after the 1965
2.Gen.Yahya got deposed after 1971
3.Musharraffa did coup after 1971.

So this trend does speaks volumes about PA officer's corps of which neither PAF nor PN are convinced.but they go with the army coz PA is dominant force in Pakistan's defence structure.

After 1999.

 

[IND151]

I hope after nato pullout we attack the indians again. I have full faith in our military. Funny how for a Pakistan defence website all some do is bash our armed forces. And for what? To appease indians. What a ghulam mentality.

things are not that simple

 

[ajtr]

All India needs is a prolonged conventional war with Pakistan atleast 15 days. It will have massive impact on our economy but we can absorb its effects while Pakistan's economy will come down to its knees.

People should rather think about the consequences of war even if India don't gain or lose any land. Intellectuals already say that in case of war, its the economy of the country doing better than the other will be the winner.

Think about it, rather than getting on your horses and start aggression against India.

I will try to give an analogy regarding PA officer corp I'm especially separating PA officer corp from rest of army coz its always the generals who impose war....

PA officer corp is like the pampered child who tries to punch above its weight.Adults just keep such antics from child as tantrums or just laugh it off due to the love and affection towards the child.but when tantrums become to much for the parents they sometime slap the child 1-2 times to keep him in limit.Thats where i see the indo-pak wars as.Now when this child get punished by the parents he goes to mohalla or school and bullies the weaker classmate in his class.now that weak classmate is Pak govt and pakistani awm which has to see bullying from PA officers corp in the form of coups and martial laws.In that way bullying child thinks that his respect his intact after he bullies the weakest after getting punished by his parents.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I will try to give an analogy regarding PA officer corp I'm especially separating PA officer corp from rest of army coz its always the generals who impose war....

PA officer corp is like the pampered child who tries to punch above its weight.Adults just keep such antics from child as tantrums or just laugh it off due to the love and affection towards the child.but when tantrums become to much for the parents they sometime slap the child 1-2 times to keep him in limit.Thats where i see the indo-pak wars as.Now when this child get punished by the parents he goes to mohalla or school and bullies the weaker classmate in his class.now that weak classmate is Pak govt and pakistani awm which has to see bullying from PA officers corp in the form of coups and martial laws.In that way bullying child thinks that his respect his intact after he bullies the weakest after getting punished by his parents.

How true!

Very well put!

things are not that simple

To the simple-minded,they are.

 

[ajtr]

How true!

Very well put!



To the simple-minded,they are.

going to become parent so ive to think like one.But i dread the tantrums from my child in future.

 

[Joe Shearer]

going to become parent so ive to think like one.But i dread the tantrums from my child in future.

If you have a daughter, there will be no tantrums, only a beautiful childhood.

 

[ajtr]

If you have a daughter, there will be no tantrums, only a beautiful childhood.

No joe sir,
Ask my parents how much tantrums they had to bear from me .being the only child in the family i was obviously laadali and pampered.

 

[KRAIT]

If you have a daughter, there will be no tantrums, only a beautiful childhood.

Do you know, she is going to gifet her daughter, if she has one, a AK-47 on her 16th b'day.

By the way the analogy seems correct. What India has to look forward is the future of the country lead by these weak kids. Do they curb what they hated the most in their childhood or will they follow the suite of the bullying the next weaker kid when they get a chance.

 

[GoodBoy]

I doubt it.

Both countries tested nuclear weapons the previous year.

So this was to be a limited conventional war if the Kargil War Spread but USA, NATO and other world powers would have forced both countries to sue for peace.

In case you don't know , it was Pakistan who was FORCED by USA to back off.

Wake up Sid

I feel sad for the Indians. Kargil must eat away at their souls day and night. Tsk Tsk.

Thanks a lot for showing condolences... we are also sad for the 4,000 Pakistani Soldiers who were killed by Indian Army and rotted on our land.

It's such a shame that Pakistan simply refused to take back rotting maggot filled bodies of their own soldiers.Those soldiers fought for Pakistan but got disowned by their own people.We know how hard it can be for the families of those soldiers who never got the bodies back.Kargil is a deep wound on Pakistans recent history which they simply REFUSE to admit but cry hard deep inside because it was a national shame.

We are so sad

 

[Black Widow]

In case you don't know , it was Pakistan who was FORCED by USA to back off.

Wake up Sid



Thanks a lot for showing condolences... we are also sad for the 4,000 Pakistani Soldiers who were killed by Indian Army and rotted on our land.

It's such a shame that Pakistan simply refused to take back rotting maggot filled bodies of their own soldiers.Those soldiers fought for Pakistan but got disowned by their own people.We know how hard it can be for the families of those soldiers who never got the bodies back.Kargil is a deep wound on Pakistans recent history which they simply REFUSE to admit but cry hard deep inside because it was a national shame.

We are so sad

Very Strong words for RazPak... I am waiting for razPak reply.

 

[GoodBoy]

To believe there will never be another Kargil like event is to believe and have faith in the ego and greed of powerful men. For it is not the Pakistani people who have any interest in waging a war against India...a common man has far bigger problems, of mere survival, than the conquering of the world.

The misadventures that we seem to take every decade and a half has much more to do with the politicized nature of the Pakistani armed forces. Soon after the founding of the nation, the army took on a mythical status, not because of its exploits, but the first of the military dictators had staked his claim on the nation. Pakistanis saw the armed forces as the only defense against an aggressive and unpredictable India...in reality, that more accurately portrayed the Pakistani side. Military glory was the only way these generals could gain power and hold onto it...well if not really glory, then one feigned through propaganda. War became a crucial part of the "election campaign", for no man or woman would pick a general to fix fiscal policy and social issues...they were a necessity due to the constant threat of war. Were the threat to disappear, what reason would there be for an all powerful military?

As long as Pakistan functions under the rules set forth in the 1950s, aggressive military actions will always be a very real possibility...every ambitious new military leader will first look to carve his place in Pakistani lore, legitimizing his eventual reign. Thankfully for him, history has proven, only a war has to be undertaken (planning optional), the details of which can be manipulated to make the relevant leader seem like the second coming of Alexander the Great...a glory created from the blood of brave young men who would die defending, not Pakistan's honor, but the misguided ambition of their military leaders.

That is not to say all military leaders are of the same ilk. But unfortunately due to the formidable framework already set forth by the army and then cultivated over decades, it only takes one man every couple of decades; one man with ambition and greed...everything else easily falls into place.

This seems to be the MOST sensible and balanced post of a Pakistani member(let's hope it's a Pakistani)

Pakistani Army has successfully brainwashed it's emotional awaam by projecting India as the evil Hindu aggressor or Boogyman and thus ruling Pakistan.Pakistani Army has given Pakistan nothing but humiliation and division.Indian counter offensives could have been much much stronger but it always contained itself thinking of having "future friendly relations".India even gave back lot of land it won in wars but to no avail.

Today Pakistan has landed itself in a deep pit today and only they can come out of it by themselves by changing their rhetoric anti-Indian ideology.Image of Pakistan is not only tarnished on an international level but they have tarnished the overall image of Islam in general as well.It's still time that Pakistani awaam understand this and do something about it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Do you know, she is going to gifet her daughter, if she has one, a AK-47 on her 16th b'day.

By the way the analogy seems correct. What India has to look forward is the future of the country lead by these weak kids. Do they curb what they hated the most in their childhood or will they follow the suite of the bullying the next weaker kid when they get a chance.

I think it is an excellent analogy. Notice that it applies to little boys, not little girls.

I am curbing myself with a HUGE effort, trembling on the verge of a MAHA-RANT. Do NOT trigger it.

 

[ajtr]

Do you know, she is going to gifet her daughter, if she has one, a AK-47 on her 16th b'day.

Agar mera bas chale to usko main bofors gun gift karoon

 

[GoodBoy]

Very Strong words for RazPak... I am waiting for razPak reply.

RazPak will be back again and lose his chaddi for the 6579057th time.

He likes to have "shame shame" in public...... ganda shaitan besharam baccha.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I will try to give an analogy regarding PA officer corp I'm especially separating PA officer corp from rest of army coz its always the generals who impose war....

PA officer corp is like the pampered child who tries to punch above its weight.Adults just keep such antics from child as tantrums or just laugh it off due to the love and affection towards the child.but when tantrums become to much for the parents they sometime slap the child 1-2 times to keep him in limit.Thats where i see the indo-pak wars as.Now when this child get punished by the parents he goes to mohalla or school and bullies the weaker classmate in his class.now that weak classmate is Pak govt and pakistani awm which has to see bullying from PA officers corp in the form of coups and martial laws.In that way bullying child thinks that his respect his intact after he bullies the weakest after getting punished by his parents.

@ajtr
Rather incisive there, and accurate beside.
'Pampered child' is certainly one thing while unrestrained bully is the other. The combination is severely problematic to both siblings and even other family members. Not to forget the neighborhood.

The fact of the matter is that the Gernails of the PA have consistently embarked on rather ill-advised misadventures and on few occasions (at least 2) have had the PAF pull their chestnuts out of the fire them. AM. Noor Asgar Khan has clearly articulated about what he had to do. What may have motivated the GHQ to do what it did has been explained by PAFpilot in his post above. That is really a pity because the Pakistani Armed Forces have had some very outstanding officers across the three services. IMO, many of them were submerged in swell of mediocrity (and sycophancy) that these specific Gernails had to create and foster for their self-preservation. One name outstandingly comes to mind in this context; that of Zia-ul-Haq. The lasting damage that Zia did to the institution to the PA in particular is still to be fully understood. Zia's political legacy is another matter altogether. The flotsam and jetsam of that is spread all across Pakistani society today.

But eventually it will be for the Awaam in Pakistan to set that right.

Agar mera bas chale to usko main bofors gun gift karoon

Come now, that may trigger off a landslide of a scandal. PMs and Govts. got shown the door because of that Badnaam Naam.
Bacchi deserves better than that.