PAK-FA takes to the sky!

[DeathGod]

1. wow that sounds like you.
2. thanks for letting us know that you have a brain of a PIG!

@
Ulta Chor Kotwal Ko Daante

Bade ho jaa Fache.. college main BS kam hoti hai kya jo yahan pe fellane main laga rehta hai

@topic

I would like to understand that even if an objects RCS in 0.5 m2 can it be successfully painted(resolved) by the other aircraft. Also how effective will a firing solution be for an aircraft with such small RCS (if it matters at all). For eg. will the active radar of AIM-120 be able to resolve the aircraft all the time?

 

[PAFAce]

I don't understand all the animosity here. Any true competitor should always admire and acknowledge the opponents' victories. Russia (and by extension, India) are so far winning this round with the Flanker and MiG-29 series. Pakistan and China are catching up with the J-10B and the JF-17 series, so the round is not over by any standards. With the T-50, Russia and India are looking ahead to the next round, confident that a head start would lead to victory. It's not like Pakistan or China will sit idle and let the Russians and Indians run away with it, we'll come out with our own answers sooner or later.

My point being, my Pakistani brothers and sisters must acknowledge that the Russians have played this card well. T-50 looks fantastic. Obviously there will be those who will let their imaginations run away (smart skin, comparable to F-22 and whatnot), but it's far better than anything expected in the near future in this part of the World. Let's not bicker pointlessly, call the aircraft ugly, insult Russian tech or be sore losers in general. Instead, acknowledge, regroup and attack, that's how this stuff always works.

Edit
By the way, I read recently that, on average, you must reduce the apparent cross sectional area by 4 units to achieve an RCS reduction of 1 unit. Why am I saying this? Because I think those who claim a so-called "stealthy" Su-30MKI will be invisible to Pakistani radars deserve to be laughed at. How are you going to make the Su-30MKI look 4 times smaller than it currently does? A best, the Su-30MKI Stealth will be slightly more visible on radar than the original Lightweight Fighter, the F-16.

And in any case, the fact that a "Stealth" program is required for the Su-30MKI despite the MCA and the FGFA programs proves what we have been saying all along; despite all it's technology, the Su-30MKI lights up radars like a Christmas tree, which is its biggest Achilles heel.

 

[Awesome]

1.Take this lesson from me : The moment one starts swearing and sterotyping the same time the counterpatry should understand the shallowness of the person.

Growler your head is buried so deep in the sand that I guess no one can help you. First your stereotyping of India shows what kind of mentality you have. Dont know how you live with your concious


I am just stating a premise that one can't be confirm that PAK-FA will have huge IR signature by just looking at the nozzles because there can be other ways to reduce it. Is it too hard for you to even consider it?

2. Well I dont have a television at home, so I wont know but the truth is that TV channels are the culprits in India as well as in Pakistan and their penetration is not like textbooks which students have to memorize. ( In a certain 8th class history book its written : Hindus can never be trusted , this is an excerpt in a documentary by Pervez hoodhbhoy , show any parallel in Indian education system and I will concede)

Really? What are you two, 10 year old to start mud slinging names like dogs and pigs against each other?

 

[saurabh]

I don't understand all the animosity here. Any true competitor should always admire and acknowledge the opponents' victories. Russia (and by extension, India) are so far winning this round with the Flanker and MiG-29 series. Pakistan and China are catching up with the J-10B and the JF-17 series, so the round is not over by any standards. With the T-50, Russia and India are looking ahead to the next round, confident that a head start would lead to victory. It's not like Pakistan or China will sit idle and let the Russians and Indians run away with it, we'll come out with our own answers sooner or later.

My point being, my Pakistani brothers and sisters must acknowledge that the Russians have played this card well. T-50 looks fantastic. Obviously there will be those who will let their imaginations run away (smart skin, comparable to F-22 and whatnot), but it's far better than anything expected in the near future in this part of the World. Let's not bicker pointlessly, call the aircraft ugly, insult Russian tech or be sore losers in general. Instead, acknowledge, regroup and attack, that's how this stuff always works.

Edit
By the way, I read recently that, on average, you must reduce the apparent cross sectional area by 4 units to achieve an RCS reduction of 1 unit. Why am I saying this? Because I think those who claim a so-called "stealthy" Su-30MKI will be invisible to Pakistani radars deserve to be laughed at. How are you going to make the Su-30MKI look 4 times smaller than it currently does? A best, the Su-30MKI Stealth will be slightly more visible on radar than the original Lightweight Fighter, the F-16.

And in any case, the fact that a "Stealth" program is required for the Su-30MKI despite the MCA and the FGFA programs proves what we have been saying all along; despite all it's technology, the Su-30MKI lights up radars like a Christmas tree, which is its biggest Achilles heel.

Its fun to dissect the opponents victories and playing my stick is bigger!!
Honestly, after lengthy discussions, sometimes (most times) we get to learn something new. We get to know various perspectives. If we just accept things, no discussions, we miss that.

Besides, you can ignore anybody who claims mki can go stealthy, its just

Completely agree with you on the bold part

 

[marcos98]

I don't understand all the animosity here. Any true competitor should always admire and acknowledge the opponents' victories. Russia (and by extension, India) are so far winning this round with the Flanker and MiG-29 series. Pakistan and China are catching up with the J-10B and the JF-17 series, so the round is not over by any standards. With the T-50, Russia and India are looking ahead to the next round, confident that a head start would lead to victory. It's not like Pakistan or China will sit idle and let the Russians and Indians run away with it, we'll come out with our own answers sooner or later.

My point being, my Pakistani brothers and sisters must acknowledge that the Russians have played this card well. T-50 looks fantastic. Obviously there will be those who will let their imaginations run away (smart skin, comparable to F-22 and whatnot), but it's far better than anything expected in the near future in this part of the World. Let's not bicker pointlessly, call the aircraft ugly, insult Russian tech or be sore losers in general. Instead, acknowledge, regroup and attack, that's how this stuff always works.

Edit
By the way, you must reduce the cross sectional area by 4 to achieve a RCS of 1. Why am I saying this? Because I think those who claim a so-called "stealthy" Su-30MKI will be the be invisible to Pakistani radars deserve to be laughed at. How are you going to make the Su-30MKI look 4 times smaller than it currently does?

superbly put ....sir.....

 

[hembo]

STFU you indian. I did not say anywhere PAK-FA is not a stealth plane! all i am saying that PAK-FA is not as stealthy as F-35! I do not know anything about its technical specs so i can not comment on it and i probably think its going to be pretty much close to F-35.

Your posts contain so much foul and offensive languages so frequently, one wonders how you've been avoiding being banned. I mean seriously in comparison!!

Reported for the nth time.

Also wondering why your posts are not being edited whilst other's are. Any inside contact??

P.S.: Chill out guys, this is just a discussion forum, not a war zone. No need to stoop to low level of insulting each other. It only reflects one's low mentality and lack of civility. Discuss, debate and argue but do it civilly please.

 

[Awesome]

I don't understand all the animosity here. Any true competitor should always admire and acknowledge the opponents' victories. Russia (and by extension, India) are so far winning this round with the Flanker and MiG-29 series. Pakistan and China are catching up with the J-10B and the JF-17 series, so the round is not over by any standards. With the T-50, Russia and India are looking ahead to the next round, confident that a head start would lead to victory. It's not like Pakistan or China will sit idle and let the Russians and Indians run away with it, we'll come out with our own answers sooner or later.

My point being, my Pakistani brothers and sisters must acknowledge that the Russians have played this card well. T-50 looks fantastic. Obviously there will be those who will let their imaginations run away (smart skin, comparable to F-22 and whatnot), but it's far better than anything expected in the near future in this part of the World. Let's not bicker pointlessly, call the aircraft ugly, insult Russian tech or be sore losers in general. Instead, acknowledge, regroup and attack, that's how this stuff always works.

Edit
By the way, I read recently that, on average, you must reduce the apparent cross sectional area by 4 units to achieve an RCS reduction of 1 unit. Why am I saying this? Because I think those who claim a so-called "stealthy" Su-30MKI will be invisible to Pakistani radars deserve to be laughed at. How are you going to make the Su-30MKI look 4 times smaller than it currently does? A best, the Su-30MKI Stealth will be slightly more visible on radar than the original Lightweight Fighter, the F-16.

And in any case, the fact that a "Stealth" program is required for the Su-30MKI despite the MCA and the FGFA programs proves what we have been saying all along; despite all it's technology, the Su-30MKI lights up radars like a Christmas tree, which is its biggest Achilles heel.

I feel PAK-FA situation is just like the 1998 nuclear tests. India only test nukes and was boasting itself like it was ready to destroy Pakistan.

We had a trick up our sleeves back then we have many more today. The PAK-FA seen in these images is no where near ready it looks like a clunky first prototype, no other spec is seen other than that it has bay doors and some nice thrust vectoring.

I just don't feel its anything that warrants a doomsday scenario for Pakistan. Its a good 10-15 years away, enough time for Pakistan to catch up through China.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

here found something interesting from another forum, valid points

Ok, great thing the thread is reopened. It just shows how easily can a thread be locked by a newcomer.

First things first. It looks very good. It actually has more resemblance with the YF23 than the F 22. It looks like a YF 23 update of today's times. The crane like neck is a legacy of the flankers and i like it. its higher nozzles at the back gives it a very nice look from the back when on ground.

Also those wheels are HUGE!. the double tyres were meant for heavy planes in the flanker/Foxhounds, but why is it neccessary with the PAK FA? Isnt the PAK FA supposed to be a lighter than flanker series plane? Plus by reducing the wheels they can actually save weight and gain more space internally.

Regarding the engine inlets, it seems direct to the ine of sight of the engines. Is it direct or is there chins inside to block the view from front?

ALso from what Ive been reading, this plane still has alot of modifications , so this is not the final look. There is a tender for a sigle frameless glass canopy which i feel is a must.

Also stealthy engine nozzles as well as russian method of cooling its exhaust gasses.

plus all those riveting would/should be covered by the RAM coatings which are said to be made using NANO technology due to its better qualities/ability.

ALso what indeed is that conformal thing below the wing where the win meets its body? Its seems to small for a missile as someone suggested, but looking at the area beside the engine inlets which is taken by the huge wheels, i dont know where else the side bays can be.

we are indeed jumping too much

 

[Chanakyaa]

I feel PAK-FA situation is just like the 1998 nuclear tests. India only test nukes and was boasting itself like it was ready to destroy Pakistan.

Nuclear Tests and Fighter Jet Prototype Test are Analogous ??
I cant say who was "was boasting itself like it was ready to destroy" but The Kargil was NOT initiated from Indian Side surely implies it was NOT India trying to prove what u just stated.

Following the outbreak of armed fighting, Pakistan sought American help in de-escalating the conflict. Aide to then President Bill Clinton reported that the US intelligence had imaged Pakistani movements of nuclear weapons to forward deployments for fear of the Kargil hostilities escalating into a wider conflict between the two countries.

Its clear that which party was offensive and relying on nukes.

We had a trick up our sleeves back then we have many more today. The PAK-FA seen in these images is no where near ready it looks like a clunky first prototype, no other spec is seen other than that it has bay doors and some nice thrust vectoring.

Who is claiming that they Tested a F22 ??
Indeed Even ruskies are saying they need 5 Years to mature the final production variant.

But, where is the Fighter for PAF .. can u avail even a PICTURE ?

I just don't feel its anything that warrants a doomsday scenario for Pakistan. Its a good 10-15 years away, enough time for Pakistan to catch up through China.

If Russia is 15 Years away [ with 3 prototypes in hand ] u have ur self attested that China [ and PAF ] are 20 Years away from the same tech [ even the Name is NOT KNown ]

I am NOT underestimating China, but see the facts :

#1. You prefer Western Avionics over Chinese for JF17 , which means u dont rely on Chinese Tech. If 4th Gen Chinese Tech is NOT YET RELIABLE wht can one deduce about your Preference and Quality of A TOTALLY UNKNOWN , UNTESTED FIFTH GEN TECH ??

#2. The Engines are still Imported from Russia and Chinese dont even have an Engine leave aside a Complete Gen 5 Jet.
Why talk abt Chinese alone ; Even Ruskies are WORKING on the Final Engine for PAKFA

#3. And even if it does come to reality say by 2020 ..

A. How many $80-$100 Million Jets will Pakistan afford ? When India is Supplying $5 Billion in Development and then Getting $80 Million Per Plane

B. By Numbers : Where does Pakistan stand when PAF financially crippled PAF has cut the projected figure of 250 to 150 , when it costs just 20 million a plane. While India will Induct at least 250 FGFA and 250 MCA . [ Not to Forget 150+ LCA and 150+ MRCA ]

 

[gubbi]

We had a trick up our sleeves back then we have many more today.

China unfortunately does not have 5th gen technology, yet. Maybe in a decade or so. So that trick up your sleeve comment carries no weight.

The PAK-FA seen in these images is no where near ready it looks like a clunky first prototype, no other spec is seen other than that it has bay doors and some nice thrust vectoring.

'Clunky' you say? Isnt that exactly what is meant by a maiden flight? A prototye flies, hundreds or even thousands of man hours are spent in testing and working out kinks and finally after months or even years a final production version rolls out.
Do you have a pic of your much vaunted, respected, manna from the sky JF-17 prototype or even J-10 or even the J-XX prototypes? Lets see how that compares being "clunky". L.O.L.

I just don't feel its anything that warrants a doomsday scenario for Pakistan. Its a good 10-15 years away, enough time for Pakistan to catch up through China.

Not a doomsday scenario, but very close nonetheless.
Denying reality is what is hampering Pakistan's development. 10-15 years is a short time considering next gen aircraft development. China has none of that tech - another story if they manage that through industrial/military espionage, a trick they seem to be very efficient at. Even with "acquired" tech China will not be able to roll out a prototype anytime soon (they couldn't even make aircraft engines inspite of possessing RD-33 engines!). So yes, PAF indeed worries itself to a sick stomach!

Oh btw, what catching up with China are you talking about? How much aircraft tech does Pakistan possess?

 

[DeathGod]

1.I feel PAK-FA situation is just like the 1998 nuclear tests. India only test nukes and was boasting itself like it was ready to destroy Pakistan.

We had a trick up our sleeves back then we have many more today.

2.The PAK-FA seen in these images is no where near ready it looks like a clunky first prototype, no other spec is seen other than that it has bay doors and some nice thrust vectoring.I just don't feel its anything that warrants a doomsday scenario for Pakistan. Its a good 10-15 years away, enough time for Pakistan to catch up through China.

1. Quite contencious I must say when India has alway had & still has a 'no first-use policy'.

2. Its a prototype & IMO will take fewer than 10 years for sure. 2017 being a likely date for induction. Also PAK-FA will definitely be a problem for Pakistan's defence as even if China helps Pakistan procure its supposedely 5th gen fighter then it will take it atleast 10 yrs (Because no prototype is in sight and the chinese have still to master engine production).Though pakistan will never face a doomsday scenario from India as India will never attack without provocation. Lastly pakistan shouldnt depend on China on a whole sale basis that has been seen from past some time.

 

[albwd]

Nuclear Tests and Fighter Jet Prototype are Analogous ??

Out of the original context, both of them can be done say in los alomos.

 

[Kompromat]

here found something interesting from another forum, valid points



we are indeed jumping too much

yes indeed it is just a prototype which just looks pretty much like a poorly photoshopped design .

Same you may find with the prototypes of F16 JF -17 and many other jets which looked way different when became operational.

T50 will look better after furture testing as this test was just a maiden flight and landing.

 

[albwd]

China unfortunately does not have 5th gen technology, yet. Maybe in a decade or so.

Probably, at least China lacks the super-computers to do the calculations (I think China accounced some super computers in 2009). Besides, China probably needs a very good original "guess" of a craft's model to feed the computers. J10 and Su's don't seem to be a good candidate. Then comes the engineering difficulties plus a new flight control. Aviation, missile and radar is probably not that a very big deal.

 

[Awesome]

Nuclear Tests and Fighter Jet Prototype are Analogous ??

Its a takkar attitude of ours. Its a prototype, its not entering IAF.

I cant say who was "was boasting itself like it was ready to destroy" but The Kargil NOT was NOT initiated from Indian Side surely implies it was NOT India trying to prove what u just stated.

Kargil was after the tests...

Its clear that which party was offensive and relying on nukes.

I still remember clearly reading Indian army comments saying they will capture Lahore in one day

But, where is the Fighter for PAF .. can u avail even a PICTURE ?

Lol, It'll come. You don't have to scare me into producing a picture.

If Russia is 15 Years away [ with 3 prototypes in hand ] u have ur self attested that China [ and PAF ] are 20 Years away from the same tech [ even the Name is NOT KNown ]

It doesn't work like that. One of the key things slowing the Chinese down were their lack of ability to produce Engines. That's fast changing and in 15 years, who knows.

I won't be surprised if they pulled another JF-17 out of the hat.

I am NOT underestimating China, but see the facts :

#1. You prefer Western Avionics over Chinese i for JF17 , which means u dont rely on Chinese Tech. If 4rt Gen Tech is NOT YET RELIABLE wht can one say about your Prferance of A TOTALLY UKNOWN , UNTESTED FIFTH GEN TECH ??

Actually depends on what we need. We need Thrust vectoring, Stealth... Thats something we can rely on the Chinese more than our western friends to supply.

#2. The Engines are still Imported from Russia and Chinese dont even have an Engine leave aside a Gen 5 Jet.

Thats not quite so true any more... Anyway I'll let you say that for another year.

#3. And even if it does come to reality say by 2020 ..

A. How many will Pakistan afford ?

B. When India is Supplying $5 Billion in Development and then Getting $80 Million Per Plane and Ready to Induct at least 250 FGFA and 250 MCA .
Where does Pakistan stand when PAF financially crippled PAF has cut the projected figure of 250 to 150 , when it costs just 20 million a plane.

We need to maintain defensive capability. The very capability in our hands would be enough to deter the Indians.

The PAK-FA situation is interesting, but not so bad.