Pak Army to grow by 180,000; Change to offensive posture?

[waz]

Thats not true.The total active duty army as of today is 5,50,000.May be u are confusing the size of Pak army with that of combined number of all armed forces which stands at 6,19,000.
Pakistan Military Strength

That's incorrect and the figures of 550,000 are the same force levels for the 90's. Pakistan has added thousands of troops since then, especially with the wars on the Western front.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sir

I fail to see what purpose this will achieve. PA is already split up in North, South and Central Command each lead by a 3 Star General. Than you have different Corps that are again lead by 3 Star Generals whom directly report into their respective Commands.

I fail to see how adding additional HQ's will further streamline PA's Operations.

Your questions deserve a fuller and thoroughly reasoned reply. I know exactly what I want to say, but just at this moment, I am not in the frame of mind to compose the quality of reply that you deserve. Please bear with me; I will get back to you.

@notorious_eagle

 

[MastanKhan]

I think @MastanKhan explained his logic a few posts before. This latest post fits right into the earlier one.

Hi,

Smaller units are better managed---either out of competition--ego to prove yourself and focus on your region rather than an overall scenario.

Each and everyone of these 5 HQ's that I pointed out---have a very crucial area to protect---the importance of which is only known to the area HQ commander and his troops----. He is operating INDEPENDANT and in league with the other commanders as well---. His priority is to his area of influence---.

So---what maybe a give and take to the central will be life and death for the local battle group.

He must also have designated air force bases under his command as well. The Panu Aqil battle group knows and understands how important his position is and his only and only priority is the desert in front of him.

The Battle group at Karachi has its own unique problems---to give protection to Hyderbad nawabshah and Karachi area---multan and upper punjab command would have their own unique issues.

Each one of them can compliment each other---and correct the mistakes of the other very quickly---but if there is one command for upper Punjab to lower Punjab---any errors in judgement and delay in correction would be totally disasterous.

Smaller wedges and tringles are comparatively stronger overall when used in concert than larger wedges and triangles.

 

[Last Samuri]

I don't get this THE MATHS DONT ADD UP

550,000 men in ARMY over 625000 IN TOTAL; ARMED FORCE and a budget of $8 billion or 3% of GDP

That much man power the equipment training salaries and pensions and INFRASTUCTURE must be poor.

UK FRANCE GERMANY saudi israelis enjoy $40 billion & $50 billion budgets yet have one third the MANPOWER of Pakistan.

AND YOU WANT TO ADD ANOTHER 150,000 MEN what how you equipping them

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hi,

Smaller units are better managed---either out of competition--ego to prove yourself and focus on your region rather than an overall scenario.

Each and everyone of these 5 HQ's that I pointed out---have a very crucial area to protect---the importance of which is only known to the area HQ commander and his troops----. He is operating INDEPENDANT and in league with the other commanders as well---. His priority is to his area of influence---.

So---what maybe a give and take to the central will be life and death for the local battle group.

He must also have designated air force bases under his command as well. The Panu Aqil battle group knows and understands how important his position is and his only and only priority is the desert in front of him.

The Battle group at Karachi has its own unique problems---to give protection to Hyderbad nawabshah and Karachi area---multan and upper punjab command would have their own unique issues.

Each one of them can compliment each other---and correct the mistakes of the other very quickly---but if there is one command for upper Punjab to lower Punjab---any errors in judgement and delay in correction would be totally disasterous.

Smaller wedges and tringles are comparatively stronger overall when used in concert than larger wedges and triangles.

@notorious_eagle

I had thought perhaps it was a little unfair to drag @MastanKhan back into a thread where he had had his say and left, but what I would have said is more or less the same as what he says over here (perhaps I might have put it with less brevity and skill in saying no more than needed to be said). I hope that the old fox has put the case sufficiently well to satisfy.

 

[MastanKhan]

I don't get this THE MATHS DONT ADD UP

550,000 men in ARMY over 625000 IN TOTAL; ARMED FORCE and a budget of $8 billion or 3% of GDP

That much man power the equipment training salaries and pensions and INFRASTUCTURE must be poor.

UK FRANCE GERMANY saudi israelis enjoy $40 billion & $50 billion budgets yet have one third the MANPOWER of Pakistan.

AND YOU WANT TO ADD ANOTHER 150,000 MEN what how you equipping them

Hi,

The military has other business ventures as well.

 

[Humble Analyst]

I don't get this THE MATHS DONT ADD UP

550,000 men in ARMY over 625000 IN TOTAL; ARMED FORCE and a budget of $8 billion or 3% of GDP

That much man power the equipment training salaries and pensions and INFRASTUCTURE must be poor.

UK FRANCE GERMANY saudi israelis enjoy $40 billion & $50 billion budgets yet have one third the MANPOWER of Pakistan.

AND YOU WANT TO ADD ANOTHER 150,000 MEN what how you equipping them

Because the salaries are much lower in Pakistan

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Its about time..they sud have increased it about 7 to 10 years ago..now region is in fire in any situation we gonna need alot of trained personal in every field. We do need quality instead of quantitiy.... but we need to grow numbers.....
We need to work on our economy and technology... eliminate currption and catch those who ecome billionair with in few years...

 

[SipahSalar]

550,000 men in ARMY over 625000 IN TOTAL; ARMED FORCE and a budget of $8 billion or 3% of GDP

The purchasing power of a dollar is five times higher in Pakistan. So that $8 billion budget you are seeing is more like $48 billion for a European country.

And then there is the hidden budget on top of that.

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

That's incorrect and the figures of 550,000 are the same force levels for the 90's. Pakistan has added thousands of troops since then, especially with the wars on the Western front.

Source?????????No army can simply just increase its size by just adding NCO`s.There has to be more officers added too.So,How come Pakistan had increased thousands of troops while the number of battalions in PMA remained the same.

P.S.PMA has retained its 3 battalions until now when there are plans to add an additional battalion of the officer corps.

 

[Foxtrot-Bravo]

Its a good news for guys who have yet to apply their luck for 2 chances in ISSB.

 

[Donatello]

Hi,

Smaller units are better managed---either out of competition--ego to prove yourself and focus on your region rather than an overall scenario.

Each and everyone of these 5 HQ's that I pointed out---have a very crucial area to protect---the importance of which is only known to the area HQ commander and his troops----. He is operating INDEPENDANT and in league with the other commanders as well---. His priority is to his area of influence---.

So---what maybe a give and take to the central will be life and death for the local battle group.

He must also have designated air force bases under his command as well. The Panu Aqil battle group knows and understands how important his position is and his only and only priority is the desert in front of him.

The Battle group at Karachi has its own unique problems---to give protection to Hyderbad nawabshah and Karachi area---multan and upper punjab command would have their own unique issues.

Each one of them can compliment each other---and correct the mistakes of the other very quickly---but if there is one command for upper Punjab to lower Punjab---any errors in judgement and delay in correction would be totally disasterous.

Smaller wedges and tringles are comparatively stronger overall when used in concert than larger wedges and triangles.

Well, ....Karachi, Nawabshah and Hyderabad don't need much protection....they are well away from border. We need a strike and holding force in Thatta region that can blunt and thwart any attacks westwards.....if they do their job right, Karachi will need minimum Army power, only logistics capability to supply the forward forces. The current strike corps are at Mangla and Multan. That leaves whole of Sindh out. A third strike corps needs to be raised in Sindh, equipped with fast rolling light-medium tanks and armor that can thrust into Rajasthan backed by MBRL and Howitzers ( though i am not sure what value would holding a bunch of sand bring)

Also, i noticed you mentioned Gwader/Quetta split in your earlier post. Gwader will need it's own division in due time. There must be an individual command for AJK and GB region that i agree.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The 180,000 Troops increase is good process , however I think we need perhaps to introduce special training for advance training of troops

a) More Education
b) More focus on technology integration
c) More Armour for protection and situational awareness


May be after the Mandatory Physical Training

• Introduce a 1 Year Educational Component to introduce technology to cadets
• More focus on nutritional /physical training

The thing is I don't see Doctrine to "Make the Ground Troop Unit" more tech savy in Pakistan Army , the troops are crude with rifle and Semi automatic bam bam bam ....

Its almost we need a Soldier Class , which is more aware of the Technology and surrounding around operations , who can guide other soliders with their advance knowledge on field

 

[waz]

Source?????????No army can simply just increase its size by just adding NCO`s.There has to be more officers added too.So,How come Pakistan had increased thousands of troops while the number of battalions in PMA remained the same.

P.S.PMA has retained its 3 battalions until now when there are plans to add an additional battalion of the officer corps.

Yes here is an academic, focusing on force numbers and economics.

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Here is another which states the numbers at 617,000

Pakistan Military Strength

Well, ....Karachi, Nawabshah and Hyderabad don't need much protection....they are well away from border. We need a strike and holding force in Thatta region that can blunt and thwart any attacks westwards.....if they do their job right, Karachi will need minimum Army power, only logistics capability to supply the forward forces. The current strike corps are at Mangla and Multan. That leaves whole of Sindh out. A third strike corps needs to be raised in Sindh, equipped with fast rolling light-medium tanks and armor that can thrust into Rajasthan backed by MBRL and Howitzers ( though i am not sure what value would holding a bunch of sand bring)

Also, i noticed you mentioned Gwader/Quetta split in your earlier post. Gwader will need it's own division in due time. There must be an individual command for AJK and GB region that i agree.

Agreed the army can't do much there, but Karachi is perhaps the most vulnerable city in Pakistan due to the overwhelming strength of the Indian navy. The next few years should be the defining times for the Pakistani Navy.

 

[Pakistani till death]

I don't get this THE MATHS DONT ADD UP

550,000 men in ARMY over 625000 IN TOTAL; ARMED FORCE and a budget of $8 billion or 3% of GDP

That much man power the equipment training salaries and pensions and INFRASTUCTURE must be poor.

UK FRANCE GERMANY saudi israelis enjoy $40 billion & $50 billion budgets yet have one third the MANPOWER of Pakistan.

AND YOU WANT TO ADD ANOTHER 150,000 MEN what how you equipping them

Can we see a budget increase in the future due to this?