Pak-Afghan after Kunduz

[I M Sikander]

Is Afrasiab Khattak (the writer) a senator from ANP? The ones who oppose Durand Line?

Just curious...

What else you expect from this anp easy load politician.

Thy are still living in 1980s era.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Dont you worry ..... pakistan will and has uprooted all the Raw agents .... Time to pay back .... just wait a little more and you would hear the crying voice .

Is it all right if we don't hold our breath?

 

[Sipahi]

Article is rubbish. Unless Afghanistan becomes a Pakistani province, its not our business to clean up the mess created by Soviets and NATO.

In my personal capacity, I will support the Idea of fifth province

 

[Jacob Martin]

Taliban are Afghans. TTP is not. Taliban were provided sanctuaries in Pakistan. US and Pakistan Military hunted Al-Qaeda together in FATA. Taliban operate in Afghanistan and not our headache. If they come in Pakistan we will deal with them. TTP attacks in Pakistan. They are our problem. We will hunt them. Kunduz city which fell is not even close to Pakistan border. If there is cross border movement from Pakistan, Afghan Army has been called upon many times to seal border with us. Fact is only Pakistan mans it's posts, ANA doesn't. We asked to mine the border. Karzai went through the roof. We started digging trench and Karzai wouldn't eat in despair. So let's cut the crap and see who is doing what. We will help if Afghanistan wants us to or they should handle it themselves. If India feels so obliged they are free to use their mighty Army to crush Taliban. We don't care. People of Pakistan don't have the patience to listen to crap whether Kunduz falls or Kabul falls. It is Afghanistan's problem.

Yes, Taliban were provided sanctuary in Pakistan. And please don't pretend that Pakistanis never went to fight for Taliban in Afghanistan. TTP didn't arise overnight. It was the product of the collaboration between Pakistani state and Taliban. So own up to your responsibility as a country.

Why should India do anything more than extend diplomatic support to Afghanistan? The Taliban is Pakistan's creation. So is TTP. Pakistan should deal with it. If APkistan runs away from its responsibilities not our problem; nothing new there.

Yes we created and financed them, with saudi and american help.

Whats wrong in that, every country had a proxy in Afghanistan. So did Pakistan.

Afghanistan is a proxy heaven and being an important neighboring country, we have every right to secure our interests in Afghanistan.

Should i tell you about the russian, iranian and indian proxies in Afghanistan.

No you don't need to elaborate any further. Half of the Pakistanis here deny that the present situation in Afghanistan is your creation. Thanks for acknowledging this at least.

Mujahideens were already there in 1976 before arrival of Soviets. Their main concern back then was communists who took over Afghanistan by Saur Revolution. The fighting only Intensified when Soviet came to equation and were also joined by Pro China Communist Party members as well.

Wrong. Most of Mujaheddin were Comprised of mainly Tajiks United under leadership of Ahmad Shah Massoud while there was Gulbaddin Himatyar as well but he was very uneffective while a Pashtun Communist Leader Najibullah was ruling the Country.

Thanks for the history lesson. The point of discussion is Pakistani sponsoring of Taliban. How does this have anything to do with that?

When Soviets left USA also Abandoned Afghanistan while putting Sanctions on Pakistan for their Nuclear Program left Afghanistan in Completely Helpless situation to establish Schools or Hospitals in the first place leaving Likes of Usama Bin Ladin to capitalize the situation hence Madarsaas in Afghanistan instead of Schools. The Blame goes both ways not just rest with Pakistan only.

Of course Pakistan is to blame exclusively! Why, in the name of realpolitik, does Pakistan have to indulge in all the mischief-making possible? And then rue the inevitable outcome.

Wrong the idea of Strategic Depth has never been Utilize otherwise there would have been Pakistani Troops in Afghanistan rather then Taliban back in 1990s while Govt. in Kabul serving as Client dependent on Pakistan Military.

You are crediting the Pak military/ISI with no brains. After the fate of the Soviets, why would they dare invade Afghanistan directly?

TTP has nothing in common except for the term "Taliban". They had been Disowned by Afghan Taliban many times before and currently taking refuge under banner of IS and are in Conflict with Afghan Taliban after being Beaten out of Pakistani Territory.

Wrong TTP didnt even exist before 2007 while Taliban had been Fighting since 1994. Both doesnt have any Connections with each other in fact they are fighting each other right now in Afghanistan.

Saying that TTP and Taliban are different may serve Pakistani interest today. But does that explain the origins of TTP? They arose in the same Madrasahs that where started with Saudi funding to feed the Mujahedeen factory. They were part of the Taliban. Many Pakistanis from these Madrasahs fought in Afghanistan for the Taliban. So the only party directly to be blamed for the situation is Pak Army/ISI.

Mujahideens were already there in 1976 before arrival of Soviets. Their main concern back then was communists who took over Afghanistan by Saur Revolution. The fighting only Intensified when Soviet came to equation and were also joined by Pro China Communist Party members as well.
Wrong. Most of Mujaheddin were Comprised of mainly Tajiks United under leadership of Ahmad Shah Massoud while there was Gulbaddin Himatyar as well but he was very uneffective while a Pashtun Communist Leader Najibullah was ruling the Country.
When Soviets left USA also Abandoned Afghanistan while putting Sanctions on Pakistan for their Nuclear Program left Afghanistan in Completely Helpless situation to establish Schools or Hospitals in the first place leaving Likes of Usama Bin Ladin to capitalize the situation hence Madarsaas in Afghanistan instead of Schools. The Blame goes both ways not just rest with Pakistan only.
Wrong the idea of Strategic Depth has never been Utilize otherwise there would have been Pakistani Troops in Afghanistan rather then Taliban back in 1990s while Govt. in Kabul serving as Client dependent on Pakistan Military.
Pakistan Changed their Approach in return USA would not allow former Mujaheddin and Warlords in Govt. either because they were Threats to Majority Pashtun and their Interests. USA refuse, Pashtuns reorganize Taliban Pakistan left with nothing but Hostile Afghanistan and insurgency Spillover.
Wrong TTP didnt even exist before 2007 while Taliban had been Fighting since 1994. Both doesnt have any Connections with each other in fact they are fighting each other right now in Afghanistan.
TTP has nothing in common except for the term "Taliban". They had been Disowned by Afghan Taliban many times before and currently taking refuge under banner of IS and are in Conflict with Afghan Taliban after being Beaten out of Pakistani Territory.



.

Mujahideens were already there in 1976 before arrival of Soviets. Their main concern back then was communists who took over Afghanistan by Saur Revolution. The fighting only Intensified when Soviet came to equation and were also joined by Pro China Communist Party members as well.

Wrong. Most of Mujaheddin were Comprised of mainly Tajiks United under leadership of Ahmad Shah Massoud while there was Gulbaddin Himatyar as well but he was very uneffective while a Pashtun Communist Leader Najibullah was ruling the Country.

Thanks for the history lesson. The point of discussion is Pakistani sponsoring of Taliban. How does this have anything to do with that?

When Soviets left USA also Abandoned Afghanistan while putting Sanctions on Pakistan for their Nuclear Program left Afghanistan in Completely Helpless situation to establish Schools or Hospitals in the first place leaving Likes of Usama Bin Ladin to capitalize the situation hence Madarsaas in Afghanistan instead of Schools. The Blame goes both ways not just rest with Pakistan only.

Of course Pakistan is to blame exclusively! Why, in the name of realpolitik, does Pakistan have to indulge in all the mischief-making possible? And then rue the inevitable outcome.

Wrong the idea of Strategic Depth has never been Utilize otherwise there would have been Pakistani Troops in Afghanistan rather then Taliban back in 1990s while Govt. in Kabul serving as Client dependent on Pakistan Military.

You are crediting the Pak military/ISI with no brains. After the fate of the Soviets, why would they dare invade Afghanistan directly?

TTP has nothing in common except for the term "Taliban". They had been Disowned by Afghan Taliban many times before and currently taking refuge under banner of IS and are in Conflict with Afghan Taliban after being Beaten out of Pakistani Territory.

Wrong TTP didnt even exist before 2007 while Taliban had been Fighting since 1994. Both doesnt have any Connections with each other in fact they are fighting each other right now in Afghanistan.

Saying that TTP and Taliban are different may serve Pakistani interest today. But does that explain the origins of TTP? They arose in the same Madrasahs that where started with Saudi funding to feed the Mujahedeen factory. They were part of the Taliban. Many Pakistanis from these Madrasahs fought in Afghanistan for the Taliban. So the only party directly to be blamed for the situation is Pak Army/ISI.

 

[Donatello]

The fact remains is that we did try to take advantage of the situation in Afghanistan close to the end of the first Afghan war, but specifically of the that little jut between us and Tajikistan. Essentially the route that would give us a reliable connection to Tajikistan and ipso facto Central Asia and the Soviet Eastern states.

The rest of Afghanistan and Afghanis be damned for all Pakistan cares. That is the bitter yet very common selfish attitude that the rest of the world takes with their interests, and we should too.

Why can't we invade and annexe that Wakhan area? One week of bombing, send in artillery and drop SFs from the coming MI35s.

It's not like it will affect Afghanistan in any way.....they can't handle what they already have.

 

[Paksanity]

Yes, Taliban were provided sanctuary in Pakistan. And please don't pretend that Pakistanis never went to fight for Taliban in Afghanistan. TTP didn't arise overnight. It was the product of the collaboration between Pakistani state and Taliban. So own up to your responsibility as a country.

Why should India do anything more than extend diplomatic support to Afghanistan? The Taliban is Pakistan's creation. So is TTP. Pakistan should deal with it. If APkistan runs away from its responsibilities not our problem; nothing new there.



No you don't need to elaborate any further. Half of the Pakistanis here deny that the present situation in Afghanistan is your creation. Thanks for acknowledging this at least.




Thanks for the history lesson. The point of discussion is Pakistani sponsoring of Taliban. How does this have anything to do with that?



Of course Pakistan is to blame exclusively! Why, in the name of realpolitik, does Pakistan have to indulge in all the mischief-making possible? And then rue the inevitable outcome.



You are crediting the Pak military/ISI with no brains. After the fate of the Soviets, why would they dare invade Afghanistan directly?





Saying that TTP and Taliban are different may serve Pakistani interest today. But does that explain the origins of TTP? They arose in the same Madrasahs that where started with Saudi funding to feed the Mujahedeen factory. They were part of the Taliban. Many Pakistanis from these Madrasahs fought in Afghanistan for the Taliban. So the only party directly to be blamed for the situation is Pak Army/ISI.






Thanks for the history lesson. The point of discussion is Pakistani sponsoring of Taliban. How does this have anything to do with that?



Of course Pakistan is to blame exclusively! Why, in the name of realpolitik, does Pakistan have to indulge in all the mischief-making possible? And then rue the inevitable outcome.



You are crediting the Pak military/ISI with no brains. After the fate of the Soviets, why would they dare invade Afghanistan directly?





Saying that TTP and Taliban are different may serve Pakistani interest today. But does that explain the origins of TTP? They arose in the same Madrasahs that where started with Saudi funding to feed the Mujahedeen factory. They were part of the Taliban. Many Pakistanis from these Madrasahs fought in Afghanistan for the Taliban. So the only party directly to be blamed for the situation is Pak Army/ISI.

Yes, Taliban were provided sanctuary in Pakistan. And please don't pretend that Pakistanis never went to fight for Taliban in Afghanistan. TTP didn't arise overnight. It was the product of the collaboration between Pakistani state and Taliban. So own up to your responsibility as a country.

Why should India do anything more than extend diplomatic support to Afghanistan? The Taliban is Pakistan's creation. So is TTP. Pakistan should deal with it. If APkistan runs away from its responsibilities not our problem; nothing new there.



No you don't need to elaborate any further. Half of the Pakistanis here deny that the present situation in Afghanistan is your creation. Thanks for acknowledging this at least.




Thanks for the history lesson. The point of discussion is Pakistani sponsoring of Taliban. How does this have anything to do with that?



Of course Pakistan is to blame exclusively! Why, in the name of realpolitik, does Pakistan have to indulge in all the mischief-making possible? And then rue the inevitable outcome.



You are crediting the Pak military/ISI with no brains. After the fate of the Soviets, why would they dare invade Afghanistan directly?





Saying that TTP and Taliban are different may serve Pakistani interest today. But does that explain the origins of TTP? They arose in the same Madrasahs that where started with Saudi funding to feed the Mujahedeen factory. They were part of the Taliban. Many Pakistanis from these Madrasahs fought in Afghanistan for the Taliban. So the only party directly to be blamed for the situation is Pak Army/ISI.






Thanks for the history lesson. The point of discussion is Pakistani sponsoring of Taliban. How does this have anything to do with that?



Of course Pakistan is to blame exclusively! Why, in the name of realpolitik, does Pakistan have to indulge in all the mischief-making possible? And then rue the inevitable outcome.



You are crediting the Pak military/ISI with no brains. After the fate of the Soviets, why would they dare invade Afghanistan directly?





Saying that TTP and Taliban are different may serve Pakistani interest today. But does that explain the origins of TTP? They arose in the same Madrasahs that where started with Saudi funding to feed the Mujahedeen factory. They were part of the Taliban. Many Pakistanis from these Madrasahs fought in Afghanistan for the Taliban. So the only party directly to be blamed for the situation is Pak Army/ISI.

Intoxication from media booze could be bad for you, you know!

 

[Jacob Martin]

Intoxication from media booze could be bad for you, you know!

Media is actually not that bad a source for info. Better than cooking up stories in one's own head. You should try media for a change.

 

[Sine Nomine]

 

[WaLeEdK2]

While our soldiers are kicking a$$

 

[Inception-06]

Genau



Welcome to forum.
First you need to know who was helped by Zia and ISI in Afghanistan. Not that Indian version, search independently.
Hopefully that bin Laden real story will be published some day by US govt, may be after after 5 to 10 years.

Aus welcher Stadt kommst du, ich lebe in Berlin

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

British left but the fact is the great game never ended. Pakistan inherited it all of it from Fata to Afghanistan and Russia on the other side. Either way if someone wishes or not Pakistan is the preeminent power next door to Afghanistan and directly relevant to the fate of Afghanistan. No India or powers on the other side of the world can dictate that and they know it! Fact is the instability in Afghanistan is not due to Pakistan but is in every way due to all "concerned" parties not interested in accepting Pakistani preeminence. Peace will prevail once "concerned" parties have exhausted themselves and thrown the gauntlet.

 

[MastanKhan]

After the extremely deep involvement of the Pakistani state in Afghan “Jihad” in 1980s (subsequently recognized to be the largest covert US anti communist operation) and after becoming a hub for international “Jihadist” project attracting every known “Jihadist” entity to its soil from around the globe, many people thought that it is impossible for Pakistan to grow out of this quagmire any time soon. The problem was not confined to just using militant outfits as “assets and instruments” of foreign policy in countries like Afghanistan and India. Uighur separatists from Xinjiang China who initially operated from Taliban’s Afghanistan shifted to Pakistan after 9/11 and worked from here against China, the best friend of the country. Iran faced similar problem from our soil as Jandullah and some lesser-known outfits launched regular attacks in the border areas of that country. In 1990s there would be hardly any terrorist attack anywhere in the world that could not be traced back to Pakistan. This was obviously poisonous for the country’s international image and resulted in its large-scale isolation.

After 9/11 when all eyes turned towards Pakistan as supporter of the Afghan Taliban who had given shelter to OBL, General Musharraf’s government did take some action against terrorist outfits but it also proved to be haphazard and without a clear long term strategy, the rhetoric about “enlightened moderation” not withstanding. Particularly his U turn on Afghanistan proved to be a double U turn as Taliban who retreated from Afghanistan were allowed to regroup here and launch yet another war in Afghanistan from Pakistani soil. Military operation in FATA was more aimed at containing the Taliban than fully eliminating them. Even those operations were dubbed as US inspired by pro Taliban political parties not without the tacit support of the establishment. Al-Qaida had to be around as “trainer, financier and supporter” of Taliban. Hence the presence of OBL in Abbotabad. The rest is history.

After the launching of the long delayed Operation Zarb-e-Azb against terrorist sanctuaries in June 2014 and approval of National Action Plan (NAP) in December 2014 it appeared that finally Pakistan has decided to go through a paradigm shift in it’s war against terror. All political parties and state institutions publicly declared that it is our own war and no distinction will be made among good and bad Taliban while fighting against them. It was clearly hinted in the end of 2014 that the country’s Afghan policy, which is, now overtly and formally handled by the country’s military is changing in favor of establishing friendly and peaceful relations with Afghans. After all the fight was about the presence of foreign troops in Afghanistan and now when they were leaving there is no justification of war. Military operation in Waziristan did target bases and training camps of Afghan Taliban but their leadership, in some cases relocated, remains firmly based in Pakistan.

Although Afghanistan faced a winter of fierce fighting in 2014 but she was given to understand that it is only temporary and that Pakistan will broker peace between Taliban and Afghan government in the spring of 2015. Moreover the blueprint of a coordinated war on terror by the armies of Pakistan And Afghanistan on both sides of the Durand Line was also discussed to defeat terrorists. It is not that these promises did not materialize but Afghanistan also saw the summer offensive by Pak based Taliban that has been the fiercest in so many decades.

And then comes the fall of Kunduz to Taliban fighters. There was no Pak official condemnation of the death and destruction inflicted on the citizens of Kunduz for almost twenty-fourhours. It means terrorism in Pakistan will be fought but if the attack is in Afghanistan, Pakistan remains “neutral”. Taliban are RAW agents in Pakistan but “freedom fighters” in Afghanistan. The double standards have gone too far. The way most of the Pak media and pro Taliban political circles started gloating over the reports fromKunduz the first evening shows that there is almost no change in the country’s Afghan policy. Afghan Taliban had been promising over the years that they will part with Al-Qaida and other foreign terrorists when they go back to their country. But they have taken hordes of Chechens,Uzbeks, Arabs, Uighur and a good number of Pakistani fighters with them into Afghanistan for the current offensive.How has Pakistani state reacted to this breach of promise by Taliban? Like always it has turned a blind eye to it. But how can Pakistan remain indifferent to the shifting of transnational terror syndicate to Afghanistan once again. Apart from destroying peace in Afghanistan the presence of this multinational group of terrorists threaten the countries of Central Asia. Is this the way that we want to have an entry into Central Asia? Last but not the least we should be concerned aboutthe Taliban’s designs in Badakhshan. They are trying to capture parts of that northeastern Afghan province that borders at the restive Chinese Autonomous Region of Xinjiang. How would our great friend react to become a neighbor to a militant group that has a history of having links with the separatists of the so-called Islamic Movement of Turkistan? The penetration of such elements into Wakhan Corridor creates security threats for the CPEC.

Pakistan’s tacit support for Afghan Taliban has not only buried NAP in Pakistan but has also put the National Unity Government in Afghanistan in general and President Ashraf Ghani in particular in a very awkward position. The only way out after events in Kunduz is a drastic rethink of Pakistan’s Afghan policy and taking bold decisions. After such military “victories” of Afghan Taliban in their own country Pakistan can’t afford any more their presence in Pakistan. How can we allow existence of Afghan Taliban’s Shuras (who claim to be parallel governments) in Pakistan? They should go back to their own country. That can revive Pakistan’s position as a neutral facilitator in the intra Afghan dialogue that should not be hostage to the whims of any side and should have a clear time line. Pakistan can make similar demands from Afghanistan on TTP sanctuaries in that country. Distancing itself from the discredited brand Taliban fighters Pakistan’s case for demanding action against TTP shall get stronger. If we don’t come clean on Taliban, Afghans will be justified in claiming that Pakistan is still following the policy of strategic depth towards Afghanistan and its ultimate aim remains to install a puppet government in Kabul.

Pak-Afghan after Kunduz

Tehrik A Taliban Pakistan are raw agents---ie TTP-----and not the afghan Taliban.

The attack on Kunduz was not the doing of the TTP---the Pakistani Taliban or the raw supported Taliban.

 

[!eon]

Aus welcher Stadt kommst du, ich lebe in Berlin

Schön, Berlin ist in China ?
Ich bin aus Süden, kleinem Dorf neben Kaiserslautern.

 

[Spectre]

Why can't we invade and annexe that Wakhan area? One week of bombing, send in artillery and drop SFs from the coming MI35s.

It's not like it will affect Afghanistan in any way.....they can't handle what they already have.

Why don't you if you have the cajones?

Truth of the matter is the glory days went away after '65. Since then it has been one egg after the other on your face whenever you have gotten in an adventurous mood.

Better to protect what you have got and root out TTP so that they don't kill anymore of your civilians eh?

Don't mistake yourself for Russia and US and even they had indigestion after swallowing Afganishtan.

 

[Syed Bilal Abbas]

I just wasted my precious minutes in reading this shitty article.