#Pak: 61 Bodies; Casual, Insensitive attitude or Fatigue?

[Joe Shearer]

The most unfortunate part is that many on PDF view such callous disregard for human life as a "strength". Something that will give them a dubious upper hand in an imaginary war of attrition.

How easy it is to play a game of last man standing when others are pulling the gun.



You should seriously consider giving lessons in maintaining composure to Indian members on PDF - and I don't mean it as a joke. I have read many of your posts and fail to understand as to how you manage to remain calm and non-abusive through all of it. PDF members can gain a lot from your abilities.

To be honest, very often, when I lose my temper (which I do far, far too often), I write something angry. And then I go and look up the person who has annoyed me, and it turns out to be someone young enough to be my daughter (she is 36) or far younger than that even, and am overcome by remorse. Sometimes I have crawled back to a negative rating handed out, and erased it, hoping that nobody noticed it. Many of those posting are young people feeling their oats, so to speak, and ultimately, I should learn to leave them alone and pretend that something never happened.

For you younger people, I suggest you remember that people are dying for our countries; remember them, and honour them, and never let that be forgotten. Second, the world belongs to you, not to us; we messed it up, now don't go and do the same damn' thing over again. Third, it's fine to cut someone to size with a zinger, but not if it hurts; just make sure that you would have been able to handle it if it had been said to you. Fourth, keep a sense of humour; sometimes someone mocks my age, my knowledge or my English; there is no point in getting furious, it is better to smile broadly and move on. Fifth, remember that if you were meeting face to face, you would never, ever address each other in such a belligerent manner (I don't matter; whenever a Pakistani boy has found out my age and my occupation, I have been treated with the most exquisite courtesy, such that I myself feel embarrassed to contradict whatever he has said, never mind if it was right or wrong). Sixth, whatever we say on this forum is seen as Indian, not as personal to us. It is so important to maintain our self-respect and dignity. I know, I don't always succeed, but I also know that I genuinely mean well, and that I wish for peace, and that I hope that some day, I can take my very dear friends who happen to be Pakistani around my beautiful country. That helps; one can't get angry with a future guest.

You Indians don't even know how talaq works. It's because you have been living within an extremist hindu society for so long.

You do realize that if someone says talaq three times it is not acceptable in Islam. There has to be a waiting period of a month after one says talaq. In essence a divorce is not finalized until after one says talaq at least three times while being in the waiting period. It's not acceptable to say talaq 3 times at one moment to divorce. And the married couple is encouraged to reconcile their differences between these waiting times by the community.

It's too bad Indian Muslims live in darkness and jahiliya. I suppose you guys are better off bowing to statues than actually reading about Islam.


Btw, I have a hard time believing you are actually Muslim after posting the bs that you did. Take care Hindian.

DON'T say Hindian. It's very annoying.

The whole trouble is the misuse of talaq in India, thanks to a rotten, dirty set of qazis and mullahs. We seriously need a better lot.

Thank you for creating a good thread where people from other countries can learn and definitely help us (Pakistanis) about our shortcomings.
The bad part about such threads is that they get hijacked.
On Topic:
//Why is Pakistani media so casual about bodies that they forget about that incident in 3 days and that incident is not mentioned again unless there is a new attack?//
This shows a general behavior of us Pakistanis that we cash on such opportunities to create a sense of mayhem disguising as concerned citizens and after the rating we look towards another incident.

//How did those politicians, any of them, get succefull to change the narrative of attack from accountability to politics about something else? //
A very pertinent questions. The answer lies in the visible struggle of military and politicians to have unchallenged power. Since military in the past has imposed 4 marshal laws toppling elected governments so it becomes easier for democratic govt to hide their incompetency by declaring it an act of sabotage by armed forces or establishment.

//Is 20 or 60 lives so small number or Pak people are so used to it that they call it just a bad day and move on? Why that anger is not translated into protest? Is it the fatigue of carrying dead bodies? //
It was supposed to happen back in 2006-7 period, but we have become accustomed to so many dead bodies that no amount of dead bodies wakes us from the slumber.
After the APS massacre i was confident that we are gonna stand up now, we are gonna work for a secular government, we are gonna throw away bigots and extremists out of our lines. Though it happened but not to the extent it should have.

@Lurch Adams , look at this post; this is one of the best of the young people on the other side. Also @salarsikander and others like them; how can you quarrel with them?

 

[lastofthepatriots]

DON'T say Hindian. It's very annoying.

The whole trouble is the misuse of talaq in India, thanks to a rotten, dirty set of qazis and mullahs. We seriously need a better lot.

Well, I used the word hindian, because I think the guy is not Muslim.

Regardless, If the Islamic clergy in India allow someone to finish their marriage by saying talaq three times in rapid succession then they are ill-informed and misguiding people. We say lots of things when we are angry. The point of the waiting period is to let the spouses cool off and realize that perhaps they said something out of anger.

When you let village Mullahs dictate Islamic law then such ignorance occurs.

first of all i am not muslim lol muslims now make 14% of indian population and some argue that they shouldn't even be called minority anymore since they make such a huge number. And talking about the triplw talaq yes i agree with you that its unislamic the way its performed here in India and thats exactly what modi is saying. this is also exactly why muslims are supporting modi. but i don't get understand however how indian muslims making these oppressive rules have anything to do with hindu extremism when modi is actually standing up for the muslim women. i guess its just your blind hatred for hindus

Here's the thing genius. Muslim women have just as much right to ask for divorce as the men. I feel the the Islam that is practiced in India is saturated with Hindu culture. It's not a good thing because it leads to unjust decisions. Lets be honest, hinduism is not very fair to women or gender friendly. It's just that today some educated hindus of India have been open to reforms of some religious/cultural practices.

 

[Joe Shearer]

first of all i am not muslim lol muslims now make 14% of indian population and some argue that they shouldn't even be called minority anymore since they make such a huge number. And talking about the triplw talaq yes i agree with you that its unislamic the way its performed here in India and thats exactly what modi is saying. this is also exactly why muslims are supporting modi. but i don't get understand however how indian muslims making these oppressive rules have anything to do with hindu extremism when modi is actually standing up for the muslim women. i guess its just your blind hatred for hindus

Which minority has names like Zakir? I am intrigued.

 

[ManavKalia]

Well, I used the word hindian, because I think the guy is not Muslim.

Regardless, If the Islamic clergy in India allow someone to finish their marriage by saying talaq three times in rapid succession then they are ill-informed and misguiding people. We say lots of things when we are angry. The point of the waiting period is to let the spouses cool off and realize that perhaps they said something out of anger.

When you let village Mullahs dictate Islamic law then such ignorance occurs.



Here's the thing genius. Muslim women have just as much right to ask for divorce as the men. I feel the the Islam that is practiced in India is saturated with Hindu culture. It's not a good thing because it leads to unjust decisions. Lets be honest, hinduism is not very fair to women or gender friendly. It's just that today some educated hindus of India have been open to reforms of some religious/cultural practices.

You conveniently forget while blaming Hinduism saturated Islam in India, that Pakistan also had triple talaq till it was reformed some decades ago.

Islam in Pakistan is quite influenced by deobandi and barelvi schools, which are located in India and had been (saturated??) influenced by (Hindu??) Indian culture.

The difference is that Islam in Pakistan has gone thru some reforms that Indian Islam hasn't, the reason being that Islam is a pampered minority in many ways in India. If you don't believe me then, just Google Shah Bano case.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

I also know that I genuinely mean well, and that I wish for peace, and that I hope that some day, I can take my very dear friends who happen to be Pakistani around my beautiful country. That helps; one can't get angry with a future guest.

There will be no peace or friendship till 2047

That is Not in your lifetime

 

[Lurch Adams]

To be honest, very often, when I lose my temper (which I do far, far too often), I write something angry. And then I go and look up the person who has annoyed me, and it turns out to be someone young enough to be my daughter (she is 36) or far younger than that even, and am overcome by remorse. Sometimes I have crawled back to a negative rating handed out, and erased it, hoping that nobody noticed it. Many of those posting are young people feeling their oats, so to speak, and ultimately, I should learn to leave them alone and pretend that something never happened.

For you younger people, I suggest you remember that people are dying for our countries; remember them, and honour them, and never let that be forgotten. Second, the world belongs to you, not to us; we messed it up, now don't go and do the same damn' thing over again. Third, it's fine to cut someone to size with a zinger, but not if it hurts; just make sure that you would have been able to handle it if it had been said to you. Fourth, keep a sense of humour; sometimes someone mocks my age, my knowledge or my English; there is no point in getting furious, it is better to smile broadly and move on. Fifth, remember that if you were meeting face to face, you would never, ever address each other in such a belligerent manner (I don't matter; whenever a Pakistani boy has found out my age and my occupation, I have been treated with the most exquisite courtesy, such that I myself feel embarrassed to contradict whatever he has said, never mind if it was right or wrong). Sixth, whatever we say on this forum is seen as Indian, not as personal to us. It is so important to maintain our self-respect and dignity. I know, I don't always succeed, but I also know that I genuinely mean well, and that I wish for peace, and that I hope that some day, I can take my very dear friends who happen to be Pakistani around my beautiful country. That helps; one can't get angry with a future guest.



DON'T say Hindian. It's very annoying.

The whole trouble is the misuse of talaq in India, thanks to a rotten, dirty set of qazis and mullahs. We seriously need a better lot.



@Lurch Adams , look at this post; this is one of the best of the young people on the other side. Also @salarsikander and others like them; how can you quarrel with them?

I will try to imbibe and follow all that you have said. Thanks.

Yes, about @salarsikander I have noticed - he is definitely one of the better members here. And based on the above evidence, so is @Vapnope . Have made a mental note to be particularly gracious towards them in future.

There will be no peace or friendship till 2047

Kyun Sir? What's happening in 2047?

Shah Bano case.

Instances such as that case have convinced the AIMPLB that it can hold all Muslims in India to ransom. They are anti-women and no heed should be paid to their disingenuous chest-beating.

 

[H!TchHiker]

You conveniently forget while blaming Hinduism saturated Islam in India, that Pakistan also had triple talaq till it was reformed some decades ago.

Islam in Pakistan is quite influenced by deobandi and barelvi schools, which are located in India and had been (saturated??) influenced by (Hindu??) Indian culture.

The difference is that Islam in Pakistan has gone thru some reforms that Indian Islam hasn't, the reason being that Islam is a pampered minority in many ways in India. If you don't believe me then, just Google Shah Bano case.

Please tell us how come this triple Talaq issue is suddenly important while The total population of Muslims in India is about 17 crore. of these 0.5% or 3.5 lakh persons had taken divorce. Also, of the total divorce cases in Muslims, less than 1% are of triple talaq. Triple talaq is being exaggerated. Compared to this, 3.7% of total 100 crore Hindus had taken divorce. If Modi Ji is so much intersted about Mulims he need to do something in terms of education, and economic betterment of Muslims rather interfering in there personal matters. Or rather it is just new illusory "Ram Mandir" to clinch elections ?

 

[ManavKalia]

Please tell us how come this triple Talaq issue is suddenly important while The total population of Muslims in India is about 17 crore. of these 0.5% or 3.5 lakh persons had taken divorce. Also, of the total divorce cases in Muslims, less than 1% are of triple talaq. Triple talaq is being exaggerated. Compared to this, 3.7% of total 100 crore Hindus had taken divorce. If Modi Ji is so much intersted about Mulims he need to do something in terms of education, and economic betterment of Muslims rather interfering in there personal matters. Or rather it is just new illusory "Ram Mandir" to clinch elections ?

I had written about Indian Islam vs Pakistani Islam in my post.

From where has Modi come into the picture? When did I say that Modi has any interest in Muslims? Or that it is not election ploy like ram mandir?

At least read the post before replying to it.

 

[H!TchHiker]

I had written about Indian Islam vs Pakistani Islam in my post.

From where has Modi come into the picture? When did I say that Modi has any interest in Muslims? Or that it is not election ploy like ram mandir?

At least read the post before replying to it.

Dear , you mentioned about tripal talaq and my reply was in the same context.And if you think Modi has nothing to do with this issue then case closed.

 

[SBD-3]

The evolution of print to electronic media has contributed a lot in shortening the memory. In print media, the editorial quality was good. Time to establish reliability was ample and the content need was limited. The print editor had to find enough stuff for filling the required space. Journalist compensation was average and only those people used to opt for journalism who had a craze for it. With the news media things are completely different as the news have to flow 24/7/365. So need for content has increased exponentially. The journalism has become more lucrative and as result you see half of the anchor jobs being held by either news casters or doctors. The ultimate result is a fall in quality of the content and need to sensationalize since we have about 20 newspapers vs 60+ channels. With frequency being high and topics running short we see a move on attitude developing since the people tend to behave what they are being fed continuously.

 

[ManavKalia]

Dear , you mentioned about tripal talaq and my reply was in the same context.And if you think Modi has nothing to do with this issue then case closed.

My post was about Indian and Pakistani Islam and what's same and what's different in them. Triple talaq and Shah Bano case were mentioned as examples. And it was basically a reply to some other member's post.

At least read the entire post, see what was said, and who it was said to, before replying to it. There was nothing about Modi or Muslim problems in India like education or poverty.

For the record, I think Modi is like any other politician in this world, whose primary objective is the vote bank. If anyone didn't know this already I would be very surprised at their naivety.

 

[Hellfire]

@Lurch Adams , look at this post; this is one of the best of the young people on the other side. Also @salarsikander and others like them; how can you quarrel with them?

You can't. I shut up when they say something I may not agree with .....

 

[salarsikander]

@Joe Shearer @Lurch Adams.

Extremely humbled by your appreciation guys

Yes At time i do lose my temper over silly member be it Pakistani or Indian. But when I come across brilliant members like Joe himself and host of other ( I can't recall all of them atm) I definetly make sure it is worth spending sometime with them by learning their outlook on different matters

One doesn't need to go too far to look at the appalling attitude of Govt or its people.
(since govt is from those very people whom they represent).

It was few months back i remember how graciously Some Indian minister went to Arabia to secure the return of Indian workers there, and they were assured too. Whereas pakistani beggars ( govt ) good for nothing didnt even flinch their eyes on the ordeal of overseas Pakistani who bring their hard earned income to Pakistan, shoring ups its foreign exchange.

Its not just Govt but even the normal citizen of Pakistan has hardly any sympathy left in them for their fellow citizens

 

[Joe Shearer]

You can't. I shut up when they say something I may not agree with .....

On the contrary, I believe that we owe them the honour of saying what we really think and trusting their chivalrous big-hearted natures to overcome the shock of any upset they might receive. And reciprocally.

@WAJsal

Just look at this series of the last five or six posts. Aren't they worth that initiative? And they are all likely to be sharing your interests.