PAF's possible answer to MRCA

[Areesh]

I always believed the FC-20 was the best answer to MRCA and the best option for a 4.5gen fighter for PAF.

They indeed are. The most feasible AC for PAF right now.

 

[indiaworldpower]

Why no one answer me....WHY WHY WHY.....i am hearing about MRCA since i joined back in 2008, The MRCA thread first post is in 2005....when will they select MRCA???? I feel like in 2015 we'll be seeing post in 2020 we'll have 35+ MRCAss....

This is how bureaucrats and government work in India. 10 years is less, sometime it takes for ever....eg LCA, Arjun Tanks..

 

[kingdurgaking]

Who had numerical superiority as well as technical one?
anyways... lets forget it.

Yes accepted we had numerical superiority but technically we owned the same generation of fighters..

Actually u have.... check ur post.

First get LCA mk-1 operational then think of mk-2.... also do keep in mind how mig 27s and 21s are falling out of the skies and so are ur jaguars... they are obsolete i repeat again... OBSOLETE.

Now i understand for Mig you took everything... But i referred mig only Mig 21... ....

Jaguar Upgrades are taking place.. Mig 27 is nowhere in the picture.. but during the war they will be used.. which was my argument...

18 more are comming as per ACM and out of the embargoed some 14 have returned rest will also be returned.
Thts why they are thinking of buying a Air refueller for F-16s.

so you have got 110 F16's in the inventory

It has been reported a hundred times... by alot of websites... care to search?

Oke lets assume 300 JF 17 how many by 2017? all 300? we will take 250 .. As per source 300 JF17 will be made to replace all F-7, Mirage and other older generation fighters...

Rumored by all defence sites for examle asian defence,kanwa,janes kempur etc.... not all 150 but aleast 80-100+ dont u think?

As far rumored i am not sure whether to take oke lets take 100 J10 for your happines...

F-7s arent going anywhere coz most of them were purchased in the late 90s when Pakistan was embargoed..... its the A-5s tht are getting phased out as of now.

But as per reports F-7 will be replaced by JF17.... so we will drop it as we added 250 JF17 ..

And yes Mirages which were Upgraded with ROSE Prog... are BVR capable and so are F-7Ps.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/44991-capabilities-paf-mirage-3-5-a-6.html

hmmm are they some PAF professionals?

Try brahmos.... and we will be sitting there just watching right?
Try babur,Raad and other babies....

I said we both have capabilities.. i pointed you have just 30 bases and we have more that 100+ bases..


so on a whole

300 JF17 block 2 4.5 gen
150 J10 4.5 gen
110 F16 block 52 -CFT 4.5 gen

= 560

against

3 Squad of MKI 4.5 gen
2 Squad of MMRCA 4.5 gen (Lets say only Western command has deployed and only 2 squad was created by 2017)
3 squad of Mig Bison 3.5 gen
2 squad of Jaguar 3 gen
1 Squad or Mirages 2000 4 gen
1 squad of Mig 29 SMT 4 gen

= 240 western command + around 200 south western command + Navi force which comes to around 500+ fighters alone capable to defend your entire futuristic force..

I can understand PAF will be able to fill the technology gap(Not numerical) with your futuristic orders and which again will be widened again when our older fighter get replaced with capable fighters


As for our MMRCA 150 J10's are needed to defend our MMRCA

 

[kingdurgaking]

Yup we'll fire Anti Radiation and then wait 2 hours and then attack

Fan boy stuff...We'll be sitting ducks and will miserably fail...Ok let it be this way.

Buddy you forgot that we both have AWACS when a fighter of yours enters LOC itself our fighters will be on air.. forget about firing missiles... As i said PAF lost the advantage of striking first with the introduction of Radars and AWACS at the border..

Though looks like a Fan boy stuff if you analyze with patience what i have said holds true..

When i said on order. i meant 40+ for MLU ordered and are in up gradation process and new F16s. I hope i clear my point now.

Source please....
2ndly even if this the case which i doubt. All matters is that they fly when needed.

So you say you are here for discussion still brought something out of the blue.

Yeah you are not here to flame.



On which ground you are saying Mirages are not BVR capable

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/64160-could-f-7p-pgs-even-mirages-upgrade-bvr-2.html

Your friend has given the requisites thanks....

And yes PAF is stupid to waste million on A2A refueling ACs.

Not sure what was your strategy for this Mid air refuellers.. is it just for a show?

Yes..>Those which we cant bomb is going to face the fighters in the air...Thats what fighters are for.

Fine .. but they are not going to face your fighters but your Air base will ... If given a chance we will test it on your base for your satisfaction as we are satisfied

I think most in the world think their air force is better than their rivals. And if war broke out they will do a clean sweep. But history have proven false. I think you should roam around more on PDF and get to know even with low resources PAF won the air wars.

Yes you did it when we had just fighters... Now things are different buddy ...

 

[kingdurgaking]

And how many Mirages PAF had in 1971 comparison to IAF fleet of Mig 21?

Just 24 Mirages!!! Do a research and tell me how many Mig-21 IAF had at the time of 1971 war... You might your answer. By the way IAF performance in 1971 with all this force was average or even less than that. Anyways it is off topic.

Yes buddy... accepted.. thats why the performance of IAF improved in 1971 compared to 1965... where as PAF performance went down when we compared to 1965 .. all though IAF lost lot of Fighters in PAF preemptive strike as it was done in 1965... still IAF managed to fly more sorties

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yes accepted we had numerical superiority but technically we owned the same generation of fighters..

I bet Gnats and mig 21 were more advanced then sabre?anyways even then with numerical and technological advantages indian airforce was tarnished by PAF.

Now i understand for Mig you took everything... But i referred mig only Mig 21... ....

I hear mig 21s will be phased out by 2016?

MiG-21s will fly till 2016: IAF - The Times of India

Jaguar Upgrades are taking place..

Anyways buddy... its(100 jaguars in IAF) obsolete an old airframe... its planned to be retired
http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...ce-200-fighter-aircrafts-next-five-years.html

Mig 27 is nowhere in the picture.. but during the war they will be used.. which was my argument...

so you have got 110 F16's in the inventory

Right now we have 80+..... 18 more will be bought and embargoed will be returned.

As far rumored i am not sure whether to take oke lets take 100 J10 for your happines...

Not for my happines but ur welcome to google it.

But as per reports F-7 will be replaced by JF17.... so we will drop it as we added 250 JF17 ..

Dude dont u get it? Most of the F-7Ps are new bought in 1998 or something! why would they be retired by 2017?
Its the damn A-5s and non ROSE mirages tht will be retired!!

hmmm are they some PAF professionals?

We do have PAF pilots on PDF which contribute..... also the specs and the links are given in the thread aswell.

I said we both have capabilities.. i pointed you have just 30 bases and we have more that 100+ bases..

How big is ur country?

so on a whole

300 JF17 block 2 4.5 gen
150 J10 4.5 gen
110 F16 block 52 -CFT 4.5 gen

= 560

JFT will come in 3 blocks! and eventually all will be upgraded to BLK-III.
Also here ur forgetting Mirage ROSE, F-7Ps..

against

3 Squad of MKI 4.5 gen
2 Squad of MMRCA 4.5 gen (Lets say only Western command has deployed and only 2 squad was created by 2017)
3 squad of Mig Bison 3.5 gen
2 squad of Jaguar 3 gen
1 Squad or Mirages 2000 4 gen
1 squad of Mig 29 SMT 4 gen

Jags,migs will be phased out by 2016..... MRCA nobdy knows?! u have to select it first then place an order for it.... which itself takes years for delivery.

 

[kingdurgaking]

I bet Gnats and mig 21 were more advanced then sabre?anyways even then with numerical and technological advantages indian airforce was tarnished by PAF.

No buddy they may look advance in performance wise they where 2 gen fighters.. and Mig 21 bison comes under 3rd gen

I hear mig 21s will be phased out by 2016?

MiG-21s will fly till 2016: IAF - The Times of India

yes buddy mig 21 and not bisons.. i guess they will stay further

Anyways buddy... its(100 jaguars in IAF) obsolete an old airframe... its planned to be retired
http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...ce-200-fighter-aircrafts-next-five-years.html

No dude Jags are going for a substantial upgrade and they will hold good for a decade .. until AMCA comes and replace them...

Right now we have 80+..... 18 more will be bought and embargoed will be returned.


Not for my happines but ur welcome to google it.

i have included 110 Block 52 an optimistic view

Dude dont u get it? Most of the F-7Ps are new bought in 1998 or something! why would they be retired by 2017?
Its the damn A-5s and non ROSE mirages tht will be retired!!

I got your point but i have a article which states PAF will maintain only 3 type of fighters after 2015.. and i have included 300 JF17 block 2 by 2017 which is more optimistic..

How big is ur country?

Very big dont you see 7+ times more than you.. do you think you have got that much fire power fire.. honestly i feel no.. but from IAF point of view 30 bases is nothing in there fire power.. am i sounding logical now?

JFT will come in 3 blocks! and eventually all will be upgraded to BLK-III.
Also here ur forgetting Mirage ROSE, F-7Ps..

against

I have put Optimistic 300 block 2 which i a 4.5 gen fighters .. do i need to count your rose and F-7? i dont think so...

Jags,migs will be phased out by 2016..... MRCA nobdy knows?! u have to select it first then place an order for it.... which itself takes years for delivery.

Only older Migs will be phased out by Tejas-1 dude .. Rest will stay upgraded.. so both western ,south western + IN has enough fighters in current inventory which are strong enough to hold your future fighters

 

[mjnaushad]

Your friend has given the requisites thanks....

Please come with that softloan source....A credible one...

 

[mjnaushad]

850 or so posts and still going on and still not decided what can be the possible answer.

Is it that hard to decide ??

Americans are not gonna sell to us, nor can we afford or want from them.

Same with Europeans, very expensive as well as many other issues.

Russians, out of the question for decades.

French, may be, but difficult as its expensive, as well as no other operator of the rafale or in numbers.

Thus, what is left, the Chinese and the FC-20, custom built with our own requirements, specifications and fully meeting our operational needs.

So, the answer is very simple, FC-20 is the only best and viable option to counter the future MRCA or even the Flankers.

Is it that hard to decide ??

How many would be procured, what should be the balance between fighters or what should be the ratio against IAF, etc etc, are all the answers which will come with time, depending on the condition of different factors. The more the better, simple as that, which needs money and that is the real issue.

I said this before. Lets close the thread until the MRCA is decided. See you guys again in 2015.

 

[foxbat]

I said this before. Lets close the thread until the MRCA is decided. See you guys again in 2015.

How far is the JFT block 2... ?? Quite some.. Right? You dont even have a second squad of Block 1 started. Still that gets refered to in every aviation thread.. Then why such a restrictive view towards MRCA?

 

[mjnaushad]

How far is the JFT block 2... ?? Quite some.. Right? You dont even have a second squad of Block 1 started. Still that gets refered to in every aviation thread.. Then why such a restrictive view towards MRCA?

Is there anything left to discuss.....

We got the answer...And repeated it many many times

the most recent is Taimi's post

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/11236-pafs-possible-answer-mrca-57.html#post1212059

 

[kingdurgaking]

Please come with that softloan source....A credible one...

hmmm i am not sure what is credible from your point of view..

I view the below link has credible one

ASIAN DEFENCE: First Pakistan made JF-17 to fly by end of 2009: PAF Air Chief

 

[mjnaushad]

hmmm i am not sure what is credible from your point of view..

I view the below link has credible one

ASIAN DEFENCE: First Pakistan made JF-17 to fly by end of 2009: PAF Air Chief

First of all its Blogspot

I am assuming you meant this part

Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman inaugurated the final assembly work in a ceremony at Kamra. Top military and civilian officials of Pakistan and China attended, senior officers of Chinese company CATIC attended the ceremony. "The project was near to end in 1999 due to sanction imposed on Pakistan after the nuclear tests but in 2001 it was reviewed. The agreement in this respect could not be signed in 2007-08 due to unavailability of funds but Government of China arranged loans on soft installment and the role of CATIC Company in this respect is laudable", Qamar said.

Where it says the planes are on Softloan. More like he is talking on some investment required at the end of the project in 07-08 which was financed by softloans. Maybe it was about the facility to build in Pakistan. we dont know.

I like when you guys assume

 

[kingdurgaking]

F
Where it says the planes are on Softloan. More like he is talking on some investment required at the end of the project in 07-08 which was financed by softloans. Maybe it was about the facility to build in Pakistan. we dont know.

I like when you guys assume

You also do assume here that it may be for the facility... It could be also for the fighters.... And i have seen such a discussion do happening here... And the blogger hasnt given his views but you Chiefs view..

 

[applesauce]

2)Remember US F16s were not even detect these Mig21 Bisons and couldn't even locked it.LOL..Think about what will happen to ur F16s when Bison starts firing R77.

i have a real hard time believing this