PAF's possible answer to MRCA

[sancho]

i doubt j-10b can compete with the mrca. why? well there are 5 a/c competing and surely the best will be picked and all 5 of those countries have more experience with airplanes than china does and if the best is picked it will CRUSH the j-10b. i mean look at the strengths of all the a/c compared with the j-10b.

-ef has supercruise and good electronics and good ew system
-rafael has 2nd best ew system in the world and claimed to have supercruise
-sh proven in many wars has best and cheapest weapons and also REALLY good aesa and ew systems
-f-16 same as sh
-mig-35 aesa is prolly 3rd best after sh and f-16 and mig has more design experience than dassault or ef team, that combined with proven Israeli/western avionics, ew systems, and tvc make this 1 powerful bird
-gripen ppl say its the underdog but it prolly has the least maintenence costs and can be operated from anywhere and is comparable to the f-16/lca block 2 which has 100 kn engine, aesa, and possibly tvc. there are also reports of it supercruising without weapons load... why's this important? u can get back faster after a mission is done.

First of all, I don't think that the best aircraft must win MMRCA, but that aircraft that suits best to MKI, LCA and FGFA, or that aircraft that offers most ToT, even a political choice is likely.

I can't agree with you on China and J10, they learned a lot by reassembling Mig 21 and Su 27 and the base of the J10 is the Israeli Levy, which is an improved F16 design. The actual AL 31 engine should provide comparable thrust to J10 as Gripen NG, or F16 block 52 (the GE engines of block 60 have more thrust) and rumors says the TVC nozzels of MKI are on offer. Also there were reports of the same Zhuk AESA radar on offer for J10b in the J10 thread. PAF surley can add western avionics, or weapons like mica on it too and who knows how good the Chinese radar and engine will be, maybe even better than Rafales.
The point is, the base is pretty comparable to F16IN, Gripen NG and Mig 35 and these would give F18SH, EF, Rafale of course MKI also a tough time. Much will depend on which radar, EWS, engine and weapons it will have and how good they will be.

 

[maverick2009]

36 j10 v 126 mrca = mrca wins me thinks.

regardless of wat radar or weapons paf may source.

 

[SBD-3]

36 j10 v 126 mrca = mrca wins me thinks.

regardless of wat radar or weapons paf may source.

Do you really think that PAF is gonna sleep with IAF increasing the number of planes?
well PAF will increase J-10Bs if MCRA is gone ahead.
other option includes J-11B as well

 

[Jako]

Do you really think that PAF is gonna sleep with IAF increasing the number of planes?
well PAF will increase J-10Bs if MCRA is gone ahead.
other option includes J-11B as well

no i dont think,you are already going ahead with 250 thunders.....,.avialibility of funds for investing in another jet may be the biggest hurdle for pak

 

[Gucci Juice]

First of all, I don't think that the best aircraft must win MMRCA, but that aircraft that suits best to MKI, LCA and FGFA, or that aircraft that offers most ToT, even a political choice is likely.

I can't agree with you on China and J10, they learned a lot by reassembling Mig 21 and Su 27 and the base of the J10 is the Israeli Levy, which is an improved F16 design. The actual AL 31 engine should provide comparable thrust to J10 as Gripen NG, or F16 block 52 (the GE engines of block 60 have more thrust) and rumors says the TVC nozzels of MKI are on offer. Also there were reports of the same Zhuk AESA radar on offer for J10b in the J10 thread. PAF surley can add western avionics, or weapons like mica on it too and who knows how good the Chinese radar and engine will be, maybe even better than Rafales.
The point is, the base is pretty comparable to F16IN, Gripen NG and Mig 35 and these would give F18SH, EF, Rafale of course MKI also a tough time. Much will depend on which radar, EWS, engine and weapons it will have and how good they will be.

f-16 IN and Gripen NG are way more advanced than the j-10b in terms of avionics, radar, maintenance costs, and reliability.

the j-10 compares well with them aerodynamically but in terms of electronically... no.

and mig-35 with its tvc and high t/w ratio would fly circles around the j-10 not to mention more powerful electronics.

heck if the lca recieves the 100 kn engine, aesa radar, and the eurojet offer for tvc is followed through it'll be superior to the j-10b and jf-17 not only in terms of avionics but also in terms of maneuverability (which right now the j-10 and jf-17 are better than lca in but their electronics are not on par with the lca). but lca blk 2 remains to be seen.

and dont forget the Indian standards are much higher than pakistani or even chinese standards so the best plane is likely to be picked. they dont take 8 years to decide on what plane to pick.

 

[PAFAce]

f-16 IN and Gripen NG are way more advanced than the j-10b in terms of avionics, radar, maintenance costs, and reliability.

the j-10 compares well with them aerodynamically but in terms of electronically... no.

and mig-35 with its tvc and high t/w ratio would fly circles around the j-10 not to mention more powerful electronics.

heck if the lca recieves the 100 kn engine, aesa radar, and the eurojet offer for tvc is followed through it'll be superior to the j-10b and jf-17 not only in terms of avionics but also in terms of maneuverability (which right now the j-10 and jf-17 are better than lca in but their electronics are not on par with the lca). but lca blk 2 remains to be seen.

and dont forget the Indian standards are much higher than pakistani or even chinese standards so the best plane is likely to be picked. they dont take 8 years to decide on what plane to pick.

Ooh. Where do I start with this mess? You seem to be an expert on the J-10B and almost every aircraft in the MMRCA contest. Moreover, you seem pretty damn sure of the superiority of the Indian standard, which tells me that it would be useless debating with you.

36 j10 v 126 mrca = mrca wins me thinks regardless of wat radar or weapons paf may source.

On paper, and One-on-one, yeah I agree with your assessment. But that is if it stays just 36 J-10Bs. With 250 JF-17s, we'll have a solid defensive force. The J-10Bs and a handful of F-16 Block 52s will be enough of an offensive force to deter any Indian plans 1965 style. Ask yourself this question, why was Muhammad Ali the greatest boxer of all time?

Also, we're obviously excluding the intangibles, such as training or the preparedness of the forces, in your assessment. Ask any military man, the intangibles are sometimes the most important factors of all. We've known that fact for thousands of years, just read "The Art of War".

First of all, I don't think that the best aircraft must win MMRCA, but that aircraft that suits best to MKI, LCA and FGFA, or that aircraft that offers most ToT, even a political choice is likely.

I can't agree with you on China and J10, they learned a lot by reassembling Mig 21 and Su 27 and the base of the J10 is the Israeli Levy, which is an improved F16 design. The actual AL 31 engine should provide comparable thrust to J10 as Gripen NG, or F16 block 52 (the GE engines of block 60 have more thrust) and rumors says the TVC nozzels of MKI are on offer. Also there were reports of the same Zhuk AESA radar on offer for J10b in the J10 thread. PAF surley can add western avionics, or weapons like mica on it too and who knows how good the Chinese radar and engine will be, maybe even better than Rafales.
The point is, the base is pretty comparable to F16IN, Gripen NG and Mig 35 and these would give F18SH, EF, Rafale of course MKI also a tough time. Much will depend on which radar, EWS, engine and weapons it will have and how good they will be.

A much needed voice of reason. Thank you sir. I won't say the J-10B gives us an edge over the IAF (qualitatively), but it definitely gives them something to think about, which is more than enough to prevent wars.

 

[aimarraul]

no i dont think,you are already going ahead with 250 thunders.....,.avialibility of funds for investing in another jet may be the biggest hurdle for pak

pakistan will have their own-made F-20 line someday,worry about your LCA ,pakitan's JF-17 line is already working now,and we will give them j-10 or j-11 first without talking about money if it's necessary,that's what brother country means,china is in danger if pakistan is in danger

 

[MZUBAIR]

QUOTE]

yaar you are talking of a spare parts eating meachine heavy weight class F-15s for paf? lately all F-15E were grounded due to brake up of fuselage in midair!

the best answer to indian 126 MRCA will be a squadron of EF-2000 backed up with Erieye AWACS!

the most likely 126 MRCA will be Mig-35 or Gripens..
india cant just all of suden put all eggs in uncle sam's basket... MRCA, Nuke deal, SAMs, radars etc.... Russia cant afford such loss in defence market!
or... Russia may sell its MRCA to Pakistan to cover up the loss from indian MRCA deal..

This can only happen, If Pakistan have money in their pocket........atleast 6 billion $

 

[Jako]

pakistan will have their own-made F-20 line someday,worry about your LCA ,pakitan's JF-17 line is already working now,and we will give them j-10 or j-11 first without talking about money if it's necessary,that's what brother country means,china is in danger if pakistan is in danger

buddy ,we are having a discussion here ,what is this-'you take care of lca' crap?.........also,'we'll give them free jets and all',who are you?...chinese president?.....anybody wd laugh at your kiddish post........period........pakistan wd not go for more than 50 j10b's in the next decade or so,seeing their orders of the thunder it feels like.....also they will be getting mlu-ed and new f16-blk52-s...,...with all this in line,funding is definitely a problem for pak

 

[MZUBAIR]

36 j10 v 126 mrca = mrca wins me thinks.

regardless of wat radar or weapons paf may source.

Dear, PAF will get 36 J-10B in 2010-11. At that time there will be no MRCA .................126 MRCA order will take atleast 8 to 9 years to get in IAF. Till then PAF will be more modernised.

So far, I think 126 MRCA deal is imaginary.....as discussion have been going since 2004 (When I first time heard abt MRCA deal).

At the moment PAF is taking J-10B for MKI.

PAF 2015 plan.

Chengdu FC-20 Total 36 Multi-role
Lockheed Martin F-16 C/D block 52+ Total 18 Multi-role
Lockheed Martin F-16AM/BM Total 46 Multi-role
Lockheed Martin F-16 Used Total 26 Multi-role
PAC JF-17 Thunder Total 250 Multi-role
Chengdu F-7PG/T Skybolt-G Total 55 Interceptor
Dassault Mirage ROSE (PAF/PN) Total 60 Strike
___________________________

IAF 2015 plan.

MiG-27 Total 100
MiG-29 Fulcrum Total 56 .
Sukhoi Su-30MKI Flanker-H Total 229 (1 Su-30 MKI has been lost to attrition).

Dassault Mirage 2000 Total 40
SEPECAT Jaguar France Total 110
HAL Tejas Total 50 (If serial production starts in 2010).

 

[MZUBAIR]

f-16 IN and Gripen NG are way more advanced than the j-10b in terms of avionics, radar, maintenance costs, and reliability.

the j-10 compares well with them aerodynamically but in terms of electronically... no.

and mig-35 with its tvc and high t/w ratio would fly circles around the j-10 not to mention more powerful electronics.

heck

Please discuss with proves, it looks childish when some one talks without logic.
These things looks stories.

if the lca recieves the 100 kn engine, aesa radar, and the eurojet offer for tvc is followed through it'll be superior to the j-10b and jf-17 not only in terms of avionics but also in terms of maneuverability (which right now the j-10 and jf-17 are better than lca in but their electronics are not on par with the lca). but lca blk 2 remains to be seen.

Dont put this, IF.

Mr IF can even do many more things for Pakistan.

and dont forget the Indian standards are much higher than pakistani or even chinese standards

This reminds me my childhood proverb "Apnay moon mian meeetho"

so the best plane is likely to be picked. they dont take 8 years to decide on what plane to pick.

U already wasted 6 years...........First time I heard abt MRCA in 2004.

 

[duhastmish]

I think - paf's best answer to- MRCA should be - PAFKUT- A NEW social networking site where people could talk and chat for 24 hours and end up wanting more.

MRCA is just a social networking unit - as proven by - mrca thread in DEFENCE.PK- NOTHING happens we just talk for years and i see the trend to contibue since MRCA is never goign to happen - if IAF can tap its potentiam it can outrace - FACEBOOK.

 

[MZUBAIR]

I think - paf's best answer to- MRCA should be - PAFKUT- A NEW social networking site where people could talk and chat for 24 hours and end up wanting more.

MRCA is just a social networking unit - as proven by - mrca thread in DEFENCE.PK- NOTHING happens we just talk for years and i see the trend to contibue since MRCA is never goign to happen - if IAF can tap its potentiam it can outrace - FACEBOOK.

MRCA just looks imajinary now. Too much talks but nothing have happen so far.

Even India didnt performed complete flight tests of MRCA competetors.
I heard big Indian defence plans......but at the moment none of them exist.

 

[Arsalan]

for indian fanboys

well MUZBAIR you must get seriour about the discussion!

offcoure we do not have any answer to the great MRCA which will even bring down the best we have , even if we get an F22 the INDIAN MRCA will bring them down as the F22 will be pakistani and the MRCA will be of the might indians ,. you talk about man behind machine but you forget there bhagwan roop pilots behind machine!

for seroius members
well this is not the time to for finding an answer to MRCA, the deal is really goiing slow and will take 8 to 10 years before the induction starts so for the time being we must stick to the FC20 and the JF17 they will be good to tackel MKI, theis have been disscussed to death in many threads many times so let us just stop this and leave this thread for our indian friends to say whatever they want to say!

regards!

 

[pakpower]

Indians only can do one thing perfectly is to imagine things without vision or proper thoughts.