PAF's JF-16 Fighter Jet

[SQ8]

Even u Mastan sahib don't know the full story......if u or the public knew even half of the story as to wts going on with the PAF procurements n how all these so called consultants r looting PAF blind n that too with full knowledge of the brass than u will be shocked n want nothing less than the court martial for all these bast@rds

There is enough of the story known about the armed forces to see the exact level of dishonesty and corruption shown. However, there are those that fight back; but like ACdre Tufail found out.. are sidelined because they aren’t yessir to these deep rooted SOCIAL tendencies to bow down to god.. whose name is money.

 

[Fieldmarshal]

Hi,

You are right about that---. Mine is pure and simple assessment thru what I have read---and what I have seen being presented---.

And that has led me to the conclusions that the Paf heirarchy in plain and simple words deceitful---intentionally deceptive and intentionally treasonous towards the nation of pakistan.

That is why in one of my posts I wrote---" the nation of Pakistan needs more potent aircraft for its defense " and why did I not write Paf---because the Paf is being run by traitors---the needs of the traitors are never the same as the needs of the nation---and that is a historical fact---.

For that man who was being sarcastic at my comments---and did not have the ability to understand what I wrote---here is that answer---.

Their were only two CnCs in the history of the PAF that actually brought PAF forward or died trying to do so.
1. Noor Khan
2. Mushaf Ali mir
Musharaf once said about Air marshal Mushaf, "that it was only Mushaf that gave him hope during kargil n that was one of the main reasons that kept me going".
Baki saray the less said the better

 

[Raider 21]

Their were only two CnCs in the history of the PAF that actually brought PAF forward or died trying to do so.
1. Noor Khan
2. Mushaf Ali mir
Musharaf once said about Air marshal Mushaf, "that it was only Mushaf that gave him hope during kargil n that was one of the main reasons that kept me going".
Baki saray the less said the better

Elaborate please.....

 

[araz]

Either that or it was perhaps the biggest blunder in PAF history. And for the life of me, I can't figure out which.

It was a willful act.
A

 

[MastanKhan]

Either that or it was perhaps the biggest blunder in PAF history. And for the life of me, I can't figure out which.

Hi,

It was indeed a massive blunder and there was a lots of deceit and mischief behind it---.

As I wrote 12 + years ago on this board---getting the F16 was like stabbing the nation of pakistan by its air force---the Paf---.

It left the door wide open for the enemy to get the supposed 2nd best aircraft in the market---ie---the Mirage 2k---.

If the Paf had taken the Mirage 2K---then the enemy had no choice but to stay with russian equipment of that time or opt for Saab Viggen---.

So---who is the enemy of pakistan---it is the Paf---. Then against all advice they make a cash deal for the 2nd batch of the F16's while sanctions are looming---. So---judge for yourself---who is the traitor---and where does the treason start---.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Net centric warfare: EA6B Prowler introduced in 1971 is still the most important component of any strike package........an airframe is just a vehicle to carry equipment

Stand off weapons: are heavy and must be carried in numbers, It does not make war economic or war fighting sense to carry just weapon per sortie that translates to one weapon delivery per 3 hours. Consider your fighter as an assault rifle and munitions as rounds, you don't just load a single bullet and run to the border, you carry 30 in a mag and then carry multiple mags (not a good analogy but conveys the message)

Ability to stay in the air longer gives options and opportunities. When all your fighters are small with limited range, enemy can pretty much estimate their approach and defend it with SAM/AAA, with bigger platforms with longer ranges you are not limited in you attack approach.

A bigger platform with bigger AESA radar, long duration and range and 6+ BVR's can provide protection to smaller fighter units specially over sea when your enemy naval force is 20 times more bigger and lethal than yours.

... Modern day aviation is all about net centric warfare and stand off weapons. The days of bomb trucks are fast receeding. The only reason for some countries using twin engines is either because of travelling over sea or large land mass ...
A

 

[GriffinsRule]

Hi,

It was indeed a massive blunder and there was a lots of deceit and mischief behind it---.

As I wrote 12 + years ago on this board---getting the F16 was like stabbing the nation of pakistan by its air force---the Paf---.

It left the door wide open for the enemy to get the supposed 2nd best aircraft in the market---ie---the Mirage 2k---.

If the Paf had taken the Mirage 2K---then the enemy had no choice but to stay with russian equipment of that time or opt for Saab Viggen---.

So---who is the enemy of pakistan---it is the Paf---. Then against all advice they make a cash deal for the 2nd batch of the F16's while sanctions are looming---. So---judge for yourself---who is the traitor---and where does the treason start---.

Who knew you were the adviser for PAF's procurement throughout the 80s.

 

[MastanKhan]

Who knew you were the adviser for PAF's procurement throughout the 80s.

Hi,

If I was---I would have done a much better job---.

I was in the US since 1983---so when the deal for the second batch came up---there were already rumors of sanctions floating around---.

Actually congressman Solariz and the senator had tried it twice during Reagan's time---but Reagan being a tactful and strong president turned motion down---.

When Bush sr came in---the motion was put forward again---Bush sr did not have the same clout as Reagan---so he had to sign the sanctions---. The sanctions were brought forward to not sell the F16's primarily due to the workings of the indian lobby---.

If the Paf had heeded the advice of pakistan's welwishers at that time who were advising them to go for the Mirage 2000's---the mirage purchase would negate the sanctions and the american may not even put sanctions---because there would be no purpose left if pakistan got the mirage 2000's---.

Those mirages were the cancelled Jordanian order and were more advanced than the indian mirages---. But treason overcame reason---and Paf sabotaged the integrity of pakistan one more time.

To top it off---even though the sanctions were in place---Paf still made the payments on those aircraft to the americans---that was the worst of the worst form of treason against the state---.

 

[jupiter2007]

USA most likely will approve the sale of used F-16 to Pakistan by the end of 2018.

 

[Fieldmarshal]

One of the main reason for the over the top corruption in the procurement department is the simple fact that complacency has set in n the result is that they think that its all baap ka mall n hence don't even bother to do any back ground checks even on the basic details e.g. price.
To give u n example as to him farcical things have become until a few months ago the PAD dident even know the price of a aces II ejection seat used in our f-16....things were even more comical when under the fms program the Americans were charging them 400,000$ per seat....when the actual price is around 50,000$...so after the expirery of the fms program their was need for the above mentioned seats by the PAF so they floated a tender......the actual price was revealed by a contractor recently who too had given a quotation for 150,000$ ....which by the way was the lowest n the idiots at the pocurment department were not willing to accept this price consider g it too low. They were giving it to company that was selling to the PAF for 800,000$ .....only when the contractor showed them the original docs did them come to find out the original price.
N this is just the tip of the ice burg

 

[Raider 21]

One of the main reason for the over the top corruption in the procurement department is the simple fact that complacency has set in n the result is that they think that its all baap ka mall n hence don't even bother to do any back ground checks even on the basic details e.g. price.
To give u n example as to him farcical things have become until a few months ago the PAD dident even know the price of a aces II ejection seat used in our f-16....things were even more comical when under the fms program the Americans were charging them 400,000$ per seat....when the actual price is around 50,000$...so after the expirery of the fms program their was need for the above mentioned seats by the PAF so they floated a tender......the actual price was revealed by a contractor recently who too had given a quotation for 150,000$ ....which by the way was the lowest n the idiots at the pocurment department were not willing to accept this price consider g it too low. They were giving it to company that was selling to the PAF for 800,000$ .....only when the contractor showed them the original docs did them come to find out the original price.
N this is just the tip of the ice burg

On a side note personally for me it doesn't matter how much the cost of the ejection seat is......the ACES II allowed my old man to come home...just my opinion...

 

[litman]

Their were only two CnCs in the history of the PAF that actually brought PAF forward or died trying to do so.
1. Noor Khan
2. Mushaf Ali mir
Musharaf once said about Air marshal Mushaf, "that it was only Mushaf that gave him hope during kargil n that was one of the main reasons that kept me going".
Baki saray the less said the better

please never quote a liar again. as far as telling lies are concerned there is not much difference between musharaf and nawaz.

 

[Raider 21]

Hi,

If I was---I would have done a much better job---.

I was in the US since 1983---so when the deal for the second batch came up---there were already rumors of sanctions floating around---.

Actually congressman Solariz and the senator had tried it twice during Reagan's time---but Reagan being a tactful and strong president turned motion down---.

When Bush sr came in---the motion was put forward again---Bush sr did not have the same clout as Reagan---so he had to sign the sanctions---. The sanctions were brought forward to not sell the F16's primarily due to the workings of the indian lobby---.

If the Paf had heeded the advice of pakistan's welwishers at that time who were advising them to go for the Mirage 2000's---the mirage purchase would negate the sanctions and the american may not even put sanctions---because there would be no purpose left if pakistan got the mirage 2000's---.

Those mirages were the cancelled Jordanian order and were more advanced than the indian mirages---. But treason overcame reason---and Paf sabotaged the integrity of pakistan one more time.

To top it off---even though the sanctions were in place---Paf still made the payments on those aircraft to the americans---that was the worst of the worst form of treason against the state---.

Don't know why you didn't apply for the job.

F-16 at the time was a better jet than the Mirage 2000. Launch customer for Mirage 2000-5 was PAF, even PAF stickers were placed on a demo aircraft at Istres (I hope to dig out the pic from archives). Dassault did not want to sell a downgraded Mirage 2000 to PAF....they at the time could not afford 40+ jets that were originally sought for.

F-16s did a great job, just should've bought the Sparrow when it was offered.

PAF has never been treasonous as you want and wish them to be. Cheers !!!

 

[denel]

One of the main reason for the over the top corruption in the procurement department is the simple fact that complacency has set in n the result is that they think that its all baap ka mall n hence don't even bother to do any back ground checks even on the basic details e.g. price.
To give u n example as to him farcical things have become until a few months ago the PAD dident even know the price of a aces II ejection seat used in our f-16....things were even more comical when under the fms program the Americans were charging them 400,000$ per seat....when the actual price is around 50,000$...so after the expirery of the fms program their was need for the above mentioned seats by the PAF so they floated a tender......the actual price was revealed by a contractor recently who too had given a quotation for 150,000$ ....which by the way was the lowest n the idiots at the pocurment department were not willing to accept this price consider g it too low. They were giving it to company that was selling to the PAF for 800,000$ .....only when the contractor showed them the original docs did them come to find out the original price.
N this is just the tip of the ice burg

Remember some numbers are put out there to cover the kickbacks.

 

[MastanKhan]

Don't know why you didn't apply for the job.

F-16 at the time was a better jet than the Mirage 2000. Launch customer for Mirage 2000-5 was PAF, even PAF stickers were placed on a demo aircraft at Istres (I hope to dig out the pic from archives). Dassault did not want to sell a downgraded Mirage 2000 to PAF....they at the time could not afford 40+ jets that were originally sought for.

F-16s did a great job, just should've bought the Sparrow when it was offered.

PAF has never been treasonous as you want and wish them to be. Cheers !!!

Hi,

Many a times in life---better is not the best---.

With the procurement of the Mirage 2K---the Paf would have chopped off enemy's legs---. They would not have bought the M2K's---they could not get the F16's---.

Even if they bought the F16's---the second purchase should have been the Mirage 2K---.

That would have stopped the sanctions----.

The only reason for the sanctions were not the stopping of nucs---but to make the F16's inoperable---.

So---if there was a similar option in place---what purpose would the sanctions serve---non.

As for the job---not for a flyer---that was meant for decision making in procurement.