PAF vs. IAF fighter fleet technology comparison

[ironman]

I would love to quote this post at any time.. This is not a fan boy claim based on brochure specification .. not even posted by a random internet warrior..

At General Dynamics we did a study of Flankers and its impact on our Business Development efforts internationally and the results surprised us.

We need to be very careful when comparing Flankers with other aircrafts. Realistically, it is one of the best if not the best among the 4th gen. brood.

I will try penning down a post based on the lessons learnt.

We can put BVR capable F-16s and JF-17 against any aircraft in the Indian inventory but SU-30 is a beast which will not be easy to kill. Though US has devised scenerios to confront and tame it if and when needed.

 

[halupridol]

your post, surely.

tbis thread? not at all.

oh dont mind me,,,,,,carry on wid ur discussions

 

[Grevion]

IAF recently had made an exercise at the Jodhpur airforce base, which normally is the home of Mig 27 and Mig 21 squadrons. These fighters however are old generation single role fighters (the 21s are Bisons with some modern upgrades, but still mainly interceptors). Which means the Mig 21s will be used for A2A and the 27s for A2G roles only. The Rafale is meant to replace the Bisons at this base, so on paper 1 x squadron will be replaced by 1 x new onw. Operationally, that however that is not the case, because the Rafale as a multi role fighter and by capability, will be able to take over the roles of both the roles of the Mig 21s and of the 27.
In fact, in a typical strike mission of the Mig 27, you would need a credible number of 21s in escort roles, which means a good number of fighters from both squadrons are needed to do a single mission. The Rafale however is capable of defending itself, even if in strike config, which means you need far less fighters to do the same mission, while the rest of the squadron can be diverted to other missions or roles.

Actually mate i lives in jodhpur and the jodhpur airforce base inducted the mki's in 2011 after which it become the most powerful airforce base in south asia(the local newspaper boosted a lot about it). Now i have seen the bisons, mig-29,mig-27,mirage 2000(not sure if they are stationed here) and the mki's taking off(they make the least of the noise). The rumors are that the rafale will also be stationed here which will help it to retain the the title of the most powerful airforce base in south asia and its pretty close to pakistan around 500 km's away.Just thought should tell you this

On Topic-
The main question here is what kind of tactics/policies IAF or PAF is going for which is directly co-related to the money they have got to spend. Now PAF with their current inventory is looking more like a defensive force with more and more jf-17 being inducted but it wants to have an air superiority over its skies or atleast give a good fight to the enemy doing it with the upgradation and purchasing more f-16, occasionally looking for offensive missions whenever required but its current fleet of f-16 is not enough for them to protect their skies as well as strike deep into enemy's territory

The IAF with its current fleet and the upgradation program is looking forward to increase its aircraft's and the squadron's strength having the mki's for the clear purposes of having air superiority in home as well as behind enemy lines..The upgradation program will help having a good ground attack aircraft base and an credible interceptor .The rafale deal will help the purpose along with helping to maintain the air superiority with the mki's with the tejas performing a very good interceptor role of mig-21's .

 

[Abingdonboy]

*you are confused, you confused "quality" with "quantity".

I'm pretty sure that is YOU. In any case the IAF has the CLEAR advantage in both. If you can point to how the the PAF has a qualitative advantage over the IAF please do share I'm all ears....

 

[MilSpec]

thread is on fighterfleet technology comparison between both, keep it educated and sensible and abstain from trolling. @sancho @Munir @Chak Bamu @Manticore

ONLY CURRENT INVENTORIES, NOT FUTURE FANTASY PARADE

please have your say..

I presume the comparison is of technology and not of the capabilities.
From contemporary platforms among both countries

SU 30 MKI has in strike and air superiority roles has the best supersonic as well as subsonic aerodynamic performance. The second in aerodynamic performance as a package would be Mig29 followed by F16 and then probably Mirage 2000H.

From propulsion standpoint Again AL31FP has the best power curve characteristics, better than F16's F110-GE-100 engines. closely followed by Snecma M53-p2 and then Rd33/Rd93 platforms.

In Radar, It's again Su30MKI Bars N011 Pesa followed by ANPG66, and then would be Klj7/Zhuk ME

From maintenance standpoint, the best service rate would be on F16, followed by Mirage 2000H and then MKI/Jaguar.

From BVR segment, I would rate Aim120C5 the best BVR in contention followed by Python IV, and then Rvv-AE and R27ET

From Airframe engineering- I personally think Mig29K has the best engineered airframe followed by f16, with MKI in the third place.

From Landing gear - Sea harrier Beats all the platforms in the region despite being a navy platform. In a/f platforms I think jaguar has the best engineered Landing gear system, I wont be able to comment on pakistani a/cs

IN summary
Air Superiority
MKI>F16>=Mig29>Mirage2000>Jf17>Mirage3>F7PG>Mig21

Strike
MKI>F16>Mirage2000>Jaguar>mig29>Mig27>JF17>Mirage3

Multirole
MKI>F16>Mirage2000H>Jf17>Mig29

Value for Money
Jf17>F16>Mig29>Mki>Mirage2000>Mirage 3rose>Mig27>F7Pg>Mig21Bison>Jaguar


That would translate into the fact that before the advent of MKI, F16's were the champions in the region.

 

[Abingdonboy]

If India would be so superior it would have taken Pakistani soil in 65 or 71... It didn't then when it was atleast 5 times bigger. Now these days... Let us go to Kargill. Indians could not even bomb soldiers on a mountain. They got help from Israeli. Still they lost some thanks to Anza. Even later. Two MKI fully armed went to the border. They retreated. PAF was at the worst when it comes to numbers or quality. And even later... If non BVR 30 years old f16's went up they did not come close to the border...

I try to find the logic behind it cause as all Indians here are posting... The Indians are bigger in numbers and quality of the planes. Yet they do not dare to do real combat... Anyway, My dad was in one of the biggest tank battles in the world and his tank was hit. I think if he tells me that Indian army is better (in the past) then who am I to say the opposite. Our senior officers were the worst in the world. Our soldiers offered everything but there was a reason why soldiers were allowed to kill seniors if they saw bad developments... We had idiots in the army. Just like we have idiots as politicians.

The IAF flew hundreds of sorties bombing the life out of your soldiers, where was the PAF?

Well done- you were able to shoot down a few slow moving helos with now CMDS on board. One MiG-27 crashed due to a flame out and you hit one MiG-21 despite scores of SAMs being fired.


How impressive....


And what nonsense are you talking regarding the 2 MKIs? Was this a full out invasion attempt? Or a case of the IAF testing PAF response times? This has happened so many times I've lost count, what I would worry about is your often shoddy response taking up to 8 minuets to intercept.

 

[Abingdonboy]

radar adds to the RCS, making it easier for enemy to detect it, guess this is a drawback

Well then the MKI can turn off its radar, making use of passive sensors being guided by the IAF's PHALCON AWACS until they need to turn on their primary radar. In any case the BARS is so powerful it can detect and direct a R77 down range before the PAF jet even gets a lock on the MKI.


In the air force game it is all a question of budgets with the IAF looking to shell out this kind of money:

IAF to procure equipment worth $150 billion | India's first NewsPortal on Projects

The PAF has no hope of having either the qualitative or quantative edge- FACT.

mirage 2000(not sure if they are stationed here)

All 3 Mirage 2000 SQDs of the IAF are based at Gwalior AFB bro.

 

[Bratva]

thread is on fighterfleet technology comparison between both, keep it educated and sensible and abstain from trolling. @sancho @Munir @Chak Bamu @Manticore

ONLY CURRENT INVENTORIES, NOT FUTURE FANTASY PARADE

please have your say..

We thought we had upper hand in WVR but india deployed HMD (French) and has high boresight capable missiles. Pakistan has none (HMD but no Boresight missile on F-16 and rest of fleet is both HMD less and High boresight less missile). They gain upper hand in this area. They have HMD on Mirages, MIG-21, MIG-29, SU-30 and israeli boresight missiles. No matter how long we train hard, A rookie IAF pilot can obliterate seasoned PAF pilot with in one minute with his HMD


SAM's and Radars . They have protected their air bases with indigenous and foreign SAM systems, have deployed them in forward areas, suffice to say sufficient SAM coverage they have . Extensive radar coverage ( locally built plus imported ones plugging holes in their network coverage through ground based and aerial assets. What we have? We lack in Sam department, Our radars are not hi tech sans American one.

 

[qamar1990]

Lol this thread will end being another di*k measuring contest , folks get ready....
arm your weapons

well don't post bs my friends and it won't lol

 

[TeesraIndiotHunter]

Unbiased assessment

Training and Pilot-Quality

Pakistan's pilot-training is far superior to India's. Results from previous wars, over-all "kills" of both air forces, combat-experience, and results from different international exercises are ALL in favor of PAF. So, it is easy to conclude that PAF pilots are better trained than Indians.

This a fact, and if any Indian wants to dispute this point, then all he has to do is to go to ACIG.org (International Air war database used by fighter pilots to study war-record). ACIG.org put PAF above IAF when it comes to over-all kills.

Moreover, we have American pilot's witness who faced IAF Su-30MKI's and PAF F-16's in air exercise..and his views are over-whelming in favor of PAF.

So Pakistan Air Force holds a supreme advantage in pilot-quality, as PAF pilots are amongst the best in the world--while IAF is a league behind then the elite of the elite pilot-league to which PAF fighter pilots belong.

Technological aspect

Although PAF's F-16 block 52 armed with AIM-120Cs are the best fighter jets in the region, PAF lacks numbers. IAF's 150+ Su-30MKI's, and hundreds of other fighter jets are more than enough to bloody PAF's nose.

PAF will fight a bloody defensive war over Pakistani skies. In defensive role, PAF is more than a match to IAF. But over-all, IAF holds the technological edge over PAF.

Over-all
PAF will be able to hold IAF in check for 2,3 weeks. If the war goes to months and months, IAF will eventually prevail owing to its larger numbers.

In all the major war PAF was able to hold its ground and did serious damage to IAF.

Good to see some Indians who aren't blinded by delusional brainwashing and call out facts as they are.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Unbiased assessment

Training and Pilot-Quality

Pakistan's pilot-training is far superior to India's. Results from previous wars, over-all "kills" of both air forces, combat-experience, and results from different international exercises are ALL in favor of PAF. So, it is easy to conclude that PAF pilots are better trained than Indians.

This a fact, and if any Indian wants to dispute this point, then all he has to do is to go to ACIG.org (International Air war database used by fighter pilots to study war-record). ACIG.org put PAF above IAF when it comes to over-all kills.

Moreover, we have American pilot's witness who faced IAF Su-30MKI's and PAF F-16's in air exercise..and his views are over-whelming in favor of PAF.

So Pakistan Air Force holds a supreme advantage in pilot-quality, as PAF pilots are amongst the best in the world--while IAF is a league behind then the elite of the elite pilot-league to which PAF fighter pilots belong.
.

Training days are gone , the period you are taking about technological edge is time when IAF flights plane with GUN and PAF flies plane armed with A2A missiles. No naturally PAF has edge over that time in technical terms.

Moreover during Kargil IAF shows its skills by operating in very narrow zone. Alantique and 2002 bombing of border post incident shows the IAF reaction time.

BTW now you can company how much PAF pilot spend time on air vs IAF pilot ?

 

[FNFAL]

We thought we had upper hand in WVR but india deployed HMD (French) and has high boresight capable missiles. Pakistan has none (HMD but no Boresight missile on F-16 and rest of fleet is both HMD less and High boresight less missile). They gain upper hand in this area. They have HMD on Mirages, MIG-21, MIG-29, SU-30 and israeli boresight missiles. No matter how long we train hard, A rookie IAF pilot can obliterate seasoned PAF pilot with in one minute with his HMD

Actually IIRC india got its first HMS with the mig29As- the Zh-3YM Schchel-3U-1 and this was way back in the mid-late 80s.

 

[Thirdfront]

when you have your conclusion . why did you open a thread ? There is no point to discuss about technology. .. when you are in denial mode....

That is it!! this pakistani technology beats everything, everyone!!! You know how we have training mode in MKI for radar? Pakistan has something much better and way cooler.... That is called denial mode. Once turned on, it will deny every adverse thing.. like if the bomb missed target, it will say "right on target, target destroyed in world record time". If IAF plane was missed by PAF cannon/missile, it will say "world record!! 10 enemy aircraft destroyed in 1 second!!", when IAF locks-on and PAF a/c gets painted, bitching betty will declare "nothing to worry, you are invisible and invincible, world record!!!!" and final when a/c takes hit and starts going down, it will announce "do not eject. PAF is superior to IAF. Everything is fine and you just created a world record in dodging bullets!!!!!". Now beat that you inferior IAF...

 

[MilSpec]

@Manticore how about deleting all the unnecessary posts and rants

 

[TeesraIndiotHunter]

Training days are gone ,

No, they are not.

Yes, technology has become a "critical" factor over past decades---but pilot training is still a very important aspect of air-combat and Pakistani pilots are amongst the bestest of the world..along with Americans, and Israelis etc. IAF is a league behind Pakistan when it comes to pilot-training.

Regarding training not being a matter anymore...

Remember Red Flags? USAF pilots already knew the weaknesses of Thrust Vectoring maneuvering during WVR engagement..since they were trained very well to even minute details of air-combat..and when IAF's senior pilots deployed thrust vectoring during air-engagement, USAF guys saw this and jumped on IAF like hungry wolves and ripped it apart and buried it in the ground!!!

F-15s of USAF weren't technologically superior to IAF Su-30MKIs..Infact, Su-30MKIs were technology superior to USAF planes...but what mattered was the superior training of USAF guys. USAF guys already knew how an aircraft reacts when thrust vectoring is deployed...That's what superior training does.

Read Gambit's posts explaining these things in detail.

the period you are taking about technological edge is time when IAF flights plane with GUN and PAF flies plane armed with A2A missiles.

What? lol...That doesn't make any sense. What are you trying to say?

Moreover during Kargil IAF shows its skills by operating in very narrow zone. Alantique and 2002 bombing of border post incident shows the IAF reaction time.

Sorry, but Kargil war wasn't any special thing from air-combat perspective. And wow! Alantique? Shooting down a TRANSPORT size aircraft on TRAINING mission? Even air force of congo would do it..lol

BTW now you can company how much PAF pilot spend time on air vs IAF pilot ?

Don't know about that. Nobody knows. It is just speculations.

Moreover, spending time on air isn't the only measure of pilot quality. There are a lot of other variables...specially combat experience is the most important one of them.

PAF pilots have faced and fought Soviets, Afghans, Indians, and Israelis in actual air war over multiple airspaces.

PAF's combat experience dwarfs iaf's...