PAF vs. IAF Analysis- Air Combat Over the Subcontinent

[RajsParadise]

No Words...Just Facts

Indo-Pakistan War of 1965

Some Western observers noted that PAF pilots found the F-104 extremely difficult to handle because of which they weren't as effective as IAF's Folland Gnat.[7] The F-86F performed reasonably well over IAF's Hawker Hunters but had trouble in dealing with the Gnats, which earned the nickname Sabre Slayers.[8][9] The PAF, however, was able to inflict heavy losses on the Indians when it launched a preemptive strike and caught IAF's air bases by surprise.[10]

By the time the conflict ended, the PAF lost about 20 aircraft while the IAF lost 90 to 120 aircraft.[11] According to Indian sources, most of the IAF aircraft were lost on ground and it actually enjoyed a lower attrition rate (losses per 100 sorties) compared to the PAF during the course of the conflict.[12]


[edit] Indo-Pakistani War of 1971
Main articles: Bangladesh Liberation War and Indo-Pakistani War of 1971
In December 1971, India and Pakistan went to war over erstwhile East Pakistan. On November 22, 10 days before the start of a full-scale hostilities, four Pakistani Air Force F-86 Sabre jets attacked Indian and Mukti Bahini positions near the Indian-Bangladeshi border in the Battle of Garibpur, and hostilities commenced. In what became the first ever dogfight over Bangladeshi skies, three of the 4 PAF Sabres were shot down by IAF Gnats. December 3rd saw the formal declaration of war following massive preemptive strikes by the Pakistan Air Force against Indian Air Force installations in the west. The PAF targets were Indian bases in Srinagar, Ambala, Sirsa, Halwara and Jodhpur on the lines of Israeli Operation Focus. Indian sources claim the strikes failed. After the IAF retaliated, the PAF carried out more defensive sorties.[13]

As the war progressed, the Indian Air Force continued to battle the PAF over conflict zones[14], but the number of sorties flown by the PAF gradually decreased day-by-day.[15] The lack of coordination between Pakistan's air force and army[16] was evident during the Battle of Longewala when the PAF was unable to come to aid the ground forces despite repeated requests by the Pakistan Army.[17] The PAF did not intervene during the Indian Navy's raid on Karachi, a Pakistani naval port city. Some sources state that a commander decided it was the task of the Pakistan Navy alone to defend Karachi.[18]

At the end of the war, the Indian Air Force claimed it had shot down 94 PAF aircraft, including 54 F-86 Sabres.[19] According to some sources, the overall attrition rate (losses per 100 sorties) was 0.48 for the IAF and 1.42 for the PAF,[20] the PAF flying 2914 combat sorties while the IAF flew 7,346 combat sorties[21][22]during the conflict.[23]According to a PAF officer, 61.5% of PAF's sorties were defensive while 65.5% of IAF's sorties were offensive.[24]

Pakistan Fleet

Aircraft Type Versions In service Comments


JF-17 Thunder[1] Multirole Fighter JF-17 8 150 ordered, a total of 250 expected[54]

Chengdu FC-20[1] Advanced Multirole & Air Superiority FC-20 (J-10B) 0 36 ordered, to be delivered in 2009[55]

Chengdu F-7[1] Interceptor F-7PG 48 Being phased out
Multirole Fighter F-7MP 120
Trainer FT-7P 15
Trainer FT-7PG 9


Lockheed-Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon[1] Multirole Fighter F-16A/B 44
Multirole fighter F-16C/D 0


Dassault Mirage III[1] Strike & Ground Support 63
Interceptor 43
Reconnaissance 15

Dassault Mirage 5[1] Naval Support 12
Ground Support 18
Ground Support 28
Training 2

 

[Super Falcon]

onlt these paf buy no more fighter jets

 

[RajsParadise]

Indian Fleet:

Aircraft Type Versions In service Notes


Sukhoi Su-30MKI Flanker-H Multi Role Air Superiority fighter Su-30MKI Flanker-G 116 India eventually will acquire a total of 230 aircraft by 2014-15

Dassault Mirage 2000 Multi Role Fighter Mirage 2000_5 51 Mirage fleet of 51 aircraft to be upgraded to Mirage 2000/5 standards. As of April, 2008, Thales & Dassault chosen as Upgrade OEMs.[5]

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 Fulcrum Air Superiority Fighter 62 62 aircraft to be upgraded, deal signed in 2008 for $ 964 Million. Upgrade to latest SMT standards but with additional Indian/Israeli/French equipment, plus new version of Zhuk ME radar, new Mission computers, airframe overhaul, new EW fit, new engines etc.

SEPECAT Jaguar Deep penetration fighter bomber Jaguar IS 178 HAL has closed the production line for the Jaguar, now using it for AJTs. In all 178 aircraft have been received by the IAF, including 20 IS + 17 IB new builds.

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-27 Ground Attack Fighter MiG-27ML 120 40 aircraft have been upgraded [

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 Fishbed Multi Role Fighter 275 125 MiG-21bis upgraded to Bison standard, with Kopyo radar, R-77 and R-73E missiles, glass cockpit, new avionics and self defence equipment. All MiG-21s to be phased out by 2011 except MiG-21 Bison, which will stay in service up to 2025.



Future Fighter Crafts:

PAK FA - 136 - 250 - Advanced Superior 5th generation Stealth Fighter based on Mig 1.44 Model ( The PAK FA was designed to compete with the F-22 Raptor and the F-35 Lightning II, the world's first fifth-generation fighter jets)

HAL TEJAS (LCA) - 20 already inducted - 250+ will be manufactured (As on February 3 2009, LCA has completed 1011 Test Flights successfully using these prototypes: TD1-233, TD2-298, PV1-182, PV2-107, PV3-120, LSP1-33, and LSP2-38.)

The Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA)[1] is a twin-engined 5th generation stealth strike aircraft being developed by India. It will complement the HAL Tejas and the Sukhoi Su-30MKI in the Indian Air Force. The main purpose of this aircraft is to replace the aging SEPECAT Jaguar & MiG-27


The Indian Navy currently operates more than 155 vessels, including the INS Viraat, the only full-deck aircraft carrier operated by a country in Asia or the Western Pacific, along with operational jet fighters


The Indian Navy is acquiring from abroad the Kiev class aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov (INS Vikramaditya), improved Talwar class frigates, and the Scorpène class submarines. The carrier INS Viraat will be retired by the end of 2012 after the induction of the first domestically built Vikrant class aircraft carrier.


And given the financial situation I think India is better placed to mobilise its resources and stay in war for a longer period of time than Pakistan who economy is crumbling under global economic recession.

 

[RajsParadise]

An Independent American Websites says the following are the top 10 air forces in the world: (And Pakistan is not even listed in top 10).

1--US. Just no argument here. With a good pool of war-trained pilots, the unmatched ability to project power globally, and excellent hardware, the US is the one to beat.

2-France. France has one fleet carrier (despite its problems) and a proven history of knowing how to use them. They also have a strategic bomber force--sure, it's Mirage 2000s armed with cruise missiles, but it's there. Both the Aeronavale and the Armee de l'Air have a reputation for competence. They also have AWACS.

3-UK. Just behind the French because of questions regarding air defense (the Tornado F.3 still has problems) and the uncertain future of the Harrier carriers. Other than that, they also have very skilled pilots with combat experience, along with AWACS support (don't forget the Sentry AEW.1s, Strategist).

4--Russia. Slowly coming back from near collapse, the Russians have proven they can still project power in Europe and Asia, and are one of only three nations (the others being the US and China) with strategic bombers. Also armed with quality designs, where the Russians are hurt is lack of pilot training, though they do have a thin edge of elite pilots.

5--Israel. With the reputation of aerial skill rivaled only by the US (the Israelis haven't lost air superiority since 1948), the Heyl Ha'avir is constantly adding new technology. They are in the number 5 position only because they lack the ability to project power like the US, France, UK, and Russia.

6--India. The IAF is also rapidly getting new tech and becoming the air force to beat in Asia. They also have a carrier, and if things continue in this trend, could surpass Israel in the near future.

7--People's Republic of China. I'd have ranked them lower, but the PLAAF is steadily revamping their pilot training program, adding new tech, and downsizing a bloated bureaucracy. The PLAAF is getting scarier every year, and rank below Israel and India only because they have yet to prove themselves in modern combat.

8--Japan. The JASDF is getting a much-needed update, and also have a good reputation. They also have a superb tech base.

9--Brazil. No one's really been paying much attention to Brazil, but the FAB isn't half bad. They too have a carrier, even if it's old, and the AMX is an excellent aircraft. Their Mirages are getting a little long in the tooth.

10--Italy. Hey, don't forget the AMI. They're only slightly smaller than France's air force, and they haven't undergone the same sort of budget slashing that the RAF and the Luftwaffe (who would be number 11) have. Replacing their leased Tornado F.3s with F-16s was a pretty good move, as it allowed them to finally replace their ancient F-104s, and gives Italy a viable air defense while they wait for the Typhoon.

abovetopsecret.com

Wikipedia has also not listed Pakistan in 10 Ten Armed Forces:

1.US,2.Russia,3.China,4.India,5.France, 6.Germany,7.UK,8.Japan,9.Israel,10.Spain

Another website deagel.com

1. USA, because ... well I don't think I should explain why because it is obvious.

2. China, because they have the numbers and if I remember well they have the most advanced versions of the Su-27 (Su-30MKK)in service worldwide and in great numbers, I believe some 300 or so and are still building the J-11 the home made version of thies fighter, and have plans for the J-XX which they claim to be an equal to the F-22(a thing that I do not particulary believe)

3. Russia, because they have the technology and knowledge to build advanced fighters.

4. France, because they have more fighters than either the UK or Germany

5. UK because of their Typhoons, and doctrine

6. Israel, because of theiradvanced avionics on US built fighters

7. India, because of the mix of their fighter force (although this may poase serious logistic problems)

8. Japan, because of the fighters they build now (F-2, and maybe they will buy the F-22)

9. Germany, manly because of their Typhoons

10. Italy, also manly because of their Typhoons


One more website:

USA first (for air force and navy)


Then Russia still


France, Israel (difficult to say which one would be the stronguest)


Japan, RAF (too much reduction in number and lacking of air superiority fighters), Germany, India, China (by numbers)


Sweden, Greece, South Korea (access to top technology, NATO level training and equivalent of 300 modern planes each)


Spain,Nederland, Australian ,Taiwan


Other US/western equiped Middle east air force lack of some advanced technology (like on ECM), training and are totally dependant of western support.(Turkey, Egypt , Saudis...) with software lock implemented in their equipements.

and.....This is what it says about Pakistan:

The Pakis definitely rate right up there - maybe not in the top 10, but definitely somewhere up there. Their fighter pilots are just as aggressive as anyone else, and a lot more bloody-minded. While their on-paper training schedule is not that impressive, most people are unaware there are hundreds of Pakistani Air Force fighter-pilots in Saudi, UAE and Jordanian air-forces keeping their skills sharp. They also have informal access to modern technology US and France sell to "incompetent" but oil-rich countries. Their weakness stems mainly from disconnect to their own society, and a suicidally aggressive doctrine. A deadly combination of passion born from poverty and hatred born from fanaticism keep their skills sharp, and back-door acess to modern technology can make them one of the deadliest air forces out there.

 

[hj786]

According to your rankings, India would have taken all of Kasmir decades ago (hasn't happened), stopped Pakistan testing nukes (didn't happen), seperated Pakistan into lots of little pieces... hasn't happened. Now that Pakistan is nuclear, it won't happen - at least not in a war with India.

You keep reading your Wikipedia rankings kid. They don't mean sh!t.

I like that last part:

Their weakness stems mainly from disconnect to their own society, and a suicidally aggressive doctrine. A deadly combination of passion born from poverty and hatred born from fanaticism keep their skills sharp, and back-door acess to modern technology can make them one of the deadliest air forces out there."

At least they got the red parts right, if nothing else.

 

[blain2]

An Independent American Websites says the following are the top 10 air forces in the world: (And Pakistan is not even listed in top 10).

1--US. Just no argument here. With a good pool of war-trained pilots, the unmatched ability to project power globally, and excellent hardware, the US is the one to beat.

2-France. France has one fleet carrier (despite its problems) and a proven history of knowing how to use them. They also have a strategic bomber force--sure, it's Mirage 2000s armed with cruise missiles, but it's there. Both the Aeronavale and the Armee de l'Air have a reputation for competence. They also have AWACS.

3-UK. Just behind the French because of questions regarding air defense (the Tornado F.3 still has problems) and the uncertain future of the Harrier carriers. Other than that, they also have very skilled pilots with combat experience, along with AWACS support (don't forget the Sentry AEW.1s, Strategist).

4--Russia. Slowly coming back from near collapse, the Russians have proven they can still project power in Europe and Asia, and are one of only three nations (the others being the US and China) with strategic bombers. Also armed with quality designs, where the Russians are hurt is lack of pilot training, though they do have a thin edge of elite pilots.

5--Israel. With the reputation of aerial skill rivaled only by the US (the Israelis haven't lost air superiority since 1948), the Heyl Ha'avir is constantly adding new technology. They are in the number 5 position only because they lack the ability to project power like the US, France, UK, and Russia.

6--India. The IAF is also rapidly getting new tech and becoming the air force to beat in Asia. They also have a carrier, and if things continue in this trend, could surpass Israel in the near future.

7--People's Republic of China. I'd have ranked them lower, but the PLAAF is steadily revamping their pilot training program, adding new tech, and downsizing a bloated bureaucracy. The PLAAF is getting scarier every year, and rank below Israel and India only because they have yet to prove themselves in modern combat.

8--Japan. The JASDF is getting a much-needed update, and also have a good reputation. They also have a superb tech base.

9--Brazil. No one's really been paying much attention to Brazil, but the FAB isn't half bad. They too have a carrier, even if it's old, and the AMX is an excellent aircraft. Their Mirages are getting a little long in the tooth.

10--Italy. Hey, don't forget the AMI. They're only slightly smaller than France's air force, and they haven't undergone the same sort of budget slashing that the RAF and the Luftwaffe (who would be number 11) have. Replacing their leased Tornado F.3s with F-16s was a pretty good move, as it allowed them to finally replace their ancient F-104s, and gives Italy a viable air defense while they wait for the Typhoon.

abovetopsecret.com

Wikipedia has also not listed Pakistan in 10 Ten Armed Forces:

1.US,2.Russia,3.China,4.India,5.France, 6.Germany,7.UK,8.Japan,9.Israel,10.Spain

Another website deagel.com

1. USA, because ... well I don't think I should explain why because it is obvious.

2. China, because they have the numbers and if I remember well they have the most advanced versions of the Su-27 (Su-30MKK)in service worldwide and in great numbers, I believe some 300 or so and are still building the J-11 the home made version of thies fighter, and have plans for the J-XX which they claim to be an equal to the F-22(a thing that I do not particulary believe)

3. Russia, because they have the technology and knowledge to build advanced fighters.

4. France, because they have more fighters than either the UK or Germany

5. UK because of their Typhoons, and doctrine

6. Israel, because of theiradvanced avionics on US built fighters

7. India, because of the mix of their fighter force (although this may poase serious logistic problems)

8. Japan, because of the fighters they build now (F-2, and maybe they will buy the F-22)

9. Germany, manly because of their Typhoons

10. Italy, also manly because of their Typhoons


One more website:

USA first (for air force and navy)


Then Russia still


France, Israel (difficult to say which one would be the stronguest)


Japan, RAF (too much reduction in number and lacking of air superiority fighters), Germany, India, China (by numbers)


Sweden, Greece, South Korea (access to top technology, NATO level training and equivalent of 300 modern planes each)


Spain,Nederland, Australian ,Taiwan


Other US/western equiped Middle east air force lack of some advanced technology (like on ECM), training and are totally dependant of western support.(Turkey, Egypt , Saudis...) with software lock implemented in their equipements.

and.....This is what it says about Pakistan:

The Pakis definitely rate right up there - maybe not in the top 10, but definitely somewhere up there. Their fighter pilots are just as aggressive as anyone else, and a lot more bloody-minded. While their on-paper training schedule is not that impressive, most people are unaware there are hundreds of Pakistani Air Force fighter-pilots in Saudi, UAE and Jordanian air-forces keeping their skills sharp. They also have informal access to modern technology US and France sell to "incompetent" but oil-rich countries. Their weakness stems mainly from disconnect to their own society, and a suicidally aggressive doctrine. A deadly combination of passion born from poverty and hatred born from fanaticism keep their skills sharp, and back-door acess to modern technology can make them one of the deadliest air forces out there.

The last paragraph is an outright disrespectful piece of garbage that some ignorant fool has written knowing absolutely nothing about the PAF.

I for one could care less about these lists that pop up here and there. Comparing Air forces as has been done above is the most blatant case of comparing apples and oranges. You simply cannot do this seriously.

All the lists above do is take the inventories of the air forces that are available on paper, net and then start making assumptions about this or that. While I cannot deny in any way that the #1 slot belongs to the USAF, the rest are all over the place. As an example, while every Air Force in the Europe looks good on paper, a simple case was flying night missions (all lights off) during the Bosnian war. The USAF flew them without any problems but pretty much all of the other NATO Air Force pilots had difficulty in doing so and in mid-flight cockpits would get lit up. I am sure there are other training profiles in which the USAF pilots can't keep up with others. But the point is that this list does not take anything like this into account.

Secondly, a lot of the capabilities such as carriers etc. are included in this listing. Now how does this fall under the purview of the Air Forces? Secondly Aside from the US, which other nation has back-up carrier groups available for operations?

A deadly combination of passion born from poverty and hatred born from fanaticism keep their skills sharp, and back-door acess to modern technology can make them one of the deadliest air forces out there.

Nice way to compliment? As if our pilots are nut cases. Anyone bothered reading the hundreds of extremely sane and valuable articles written by PAF pilots who have actually flown in anger against the other sides? A while back I posted the comments of a USAF instructor who had worked with the PAF pilots and his assessment and evaluation of the PAF was nothing of the sort that has been provided in this immature analysis.

PAF's problem has been the sanctions. Whenever we have had access to good hardware, we have shown that we can learn it, employ it like the best do anywhere else.

Please also post links of the above sources.

 

[RajsParadise]

Hi.,

When I posted those listings I took only into consideration the strength of a nation to over power the other in case of an eventuality just based on the Air Force...I never included Army & Naval force which are far more Superior than Pakistan...

Its easy to dweal ino perceptions just based on patriotism and compassion for ones own country but a balanced analysis is the order of the day...

Now its been discussed about F16 & JF10, JF17 & JF13 will compete against Su30MKI, HAL Tejas, PAK/FA and 126 Air Superiority Fighters in the range of F 18/Super Hornets, Typhoons, Rafale & others which are being considered...

Just to a balanced analysis..how the hell would a Gen 4 Crafts would compete with a Gen 5 aircraft with Stealth Tech and State of art Radar Systems...

Lets keep the HAL Tejas out of picture.....u have 8 JF 17 as of today and in total 12 till end of 209 ....No report of JF 10 & JF 13, so keep them out of consideration....So if a war has to hapeen in a months time U have JF 17 (8), Mirage III & !V upgraded to Rose Program which if u ask any guy with common sense about war crafts will says that they are far less superior then Mirage 2000-5 upgrade which Indian made recently... 44 F16 of the cold war era which are still competent enough and other interceptors match up with 116 Su30 MKI in use and other 40 being added this year Su30 MKIs (Gen 4.5), 178 Jaugars, 61 Mirage 2000-5, 104 Mig 29 Falcons, 60+ Mig 27 and lets leave alone Mig 21 (Around 250+)....

It defices my logic how would one say that Pakistan with their given numbers and its Gen of fighter planes would even be abel to defend their own air space when we have fighters sitting in India and still be able to achieve air superiority...(I have taken into consideration AWACS, their AIM120 Missiles, and F16)...their still no match for me if I have to balance things...

Pakistan can never ever think of waging a war in the current scenario unless its is provoked for the same, whereas India has least intereset in waging a War as it is working for its ascendancy as a Super Power in the region and still accmulating the state of art technology....

On the other hand apart from Chinese help where does Pakistan Stand with its A.K Khan episode and Swat Valley episode and its global economic and political situation???

Just think in a balanced way....

 

[Myth_buster_1]

should this prick not be banned for braking the forum rules by using racial terms and constructing dumb posts?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Hi.,
Now its been discussed about F16 & JF10, JF17 & JF13 will compete against Su30MKI, HAL Tejas, PAK/FA and 126 Air Superiority Fighters in the range of F 18/Super Hornets, Typhoons, Rafale & others which are being considered...

you haven been smoking that **** from BR havent you?

Just to a balanced analysis..how the hell would a Gen 4 Crafts would compete with a Gen 5 aircraft with Stealth Tech and State of art Radar Systems...

you do not have a 5th generation stealth fighter at the moment and its not even in a 10 year time frame for FOC so drop this cr*P. by the time India inducts a russian PAK-FA, PAF will also be in same stage of acquiring 5th generation chinese stealth fighters.
but a flash back for you.. in 65 and 71 war.. our 2nd generation fighters had higher kill ratio then your 3rd generation fighters...

Lets keep the HAL Tejas out of picture.....u have 8 JF 17 as of today and in total 12 till end of 209 ....

and where did you pull this figure out? 18 combat ready BVR capable JF-17 will arrive before 23rd march our "defence day" and its most likely another 18 batch fallow at the end of this year.

No report of JF 10 & JF 13, so keep them out of consideration...

what is JF-13? and JF-10?

.So if a war has to hapeen in a months time

hmmmm... few pakistanis supported by ISI the "terrorists supporters" and pakistan army "the biggest terrorists supporters" and the new terrorists supporter "pakistan navy" trained these mens and send them across indian border and killed almost 200 indians... so why is their not a war? what other justification you need to attack pakistan? was not this the perfect time?

superior then Mirage 2000-5 upgrade which Indian made recently

do you have a link to support your claim? or you are still high from that BR smoke?

44 F16 of the cold war era which are still competent enough and other interceptors match up with 116 Su30 MKI in use and other 40 being added this year Su30 MKIs (Gen 4.5), 178 Jaugars, 61 Mirage 2000-5, 104 Mig 29 Falcons, 60+ Mig 27 and lets leave alone Mig 21 (Around 250+)....

you are just a perfect example of a delusional fanboy on steroids...
Our F-16s are just as old as your Mirage-2000 and Mig-29 fleet.. our 46 F-16 fleet are going under MLU M3 which btw once upgraded will be technically superior to any of your 4th generation fleet even after a upgrade. and wikipeedia is not a reliable source so your stats of are not accurate at all.. for example india does not have "104" Mig-29 fulcurm which btw is not "folcon".
and once Erieye is cleared for FOC in PAF this year they will be data linked with F-16s and once tipped with AMRAAMS they will be able to challenge just about any none stealth fighter in the world.

It defices my logic how would one say that Pakistan with their given numbers and its Gen of fighter planes would even be abel to defend their own air space when we have fighters sitting in India and still be able to achieve air superiority...(I have taken into consideration AWACS, their AIM120 Missiles, and F16)...their still no match for me if I have to balance things...

kid keep enjoying your Playstation games. war is too important to be left to fanboys.

On the other hand apart from Chinese help where does Pakistan Stand with its A.K Khan episode and Swat Valley episode and its global economic and political situation???

where does it stand? it stands right besides india will all its nukes pointed at indian cities and its specially trained terrorists groups ready to be send to india for more destructions. what are you going to do about it other then ****** cry?

you are still a thumb sucking child so i wont disturb your fragile flying castles fantasy.

 

[RajsParadise]

you do not have a 5th generation stealth fighter at the moment and its not even in a 10 year time frame for FOC so drop this cr*P. by the time India inducts a russian PAK-FA, PAF will also be in same stage of acquiring 5th generation chinese stealth fighters.
but a flash back for you.. in 65 and 71 war.. our 2nd generation fighters had higher kill ratio then your 3rd generation fighters...

What a BS...

About 1965 war: By the time the conflict ended, the PAF lost about 20 aircraft while the IAF lost 90 to 120 aircraft.[11] According to Indian sources, most of the IAF aircraft were lost on ground and it actually enjoyed a lower attrition rate (losses per 100 sorties) compared to the PAF during the course of the conflict.[12]

About 1971 War:

At the end of the war, the Indian Air Force claimed it had shot down 94 PAF aircraft, including 54 F-86 Sabres.[19] According to some sources, the overall attrition rate (losses per 100 sorties) was 0.48 for the IAF and 1.42 for the PAF,[20] the PAF flying 2914 combat sorties while the IAF flew 7,346 combat sorties[21][22]during the conflict.[23]According to a PAF officer, 61.5% of PAF's sorties were defensive while 65.5% of IAF's sorties were offensive.[24]

And Su30MKI is a 4.5 Gen, and all u have for a defence is JF17...LOL....

Chengdu J-10 Vigorous Dragon Indigenous 4.5th generation multi-role fighter with technology implemented from cancelled J-9 project.
The J-10B is a fifth generation future upgrade with 3D thrust vectoring and other possible features.

JF -13 or JF-XX is a chinese 5th Gen Aircraft on which PAK is relying heavily..

The only reason why India didn't wage a war is coz the Pak gov didn't deny its involvement and hence the consequences will be more far fetched in the international perspective...

Our F-16s are just as old as your Mirage-2000 and Mig-29 fleet.. our 46 F-16 fleet are going under MLU M3 which btw once upgraded will be technically superior to any of your 4th generation fleet even after a upgrade. and wikipeedia is not a reliable source so your stats of are not accurate at all.. for example india does not have "104" Mig-29 fulcurm which btw is not "folcon".
and once Erieye is cleared for FOC in PAF this year they will be data linked with F-16s and once tipped with AMRAAMS they will be able to challenge just about any none stealth fighter in the world.

... and I am supposed to believe the u are not perfect example of a delusional fanboy on steroids... 44 F-16 which doesn't even come closer to Su30 MKI ...

trained terrorists groups ready to be send to india for more destructions

.. The best line of Defence for Pak is Terrorism...and is clearly evident for what you are saying hence stop talking about u air force and leave it to India and see how we will finish of LeT & Taliban in the near future...

 

[zombie:-)]

RajsParadise

sir you might have valid points to put up here but while doing so be polite or or you might not be viewing this forum in the above user name

 

[Skywalker]

you do not have a 5th generation stealth fighter at the moment and its not even in a 10 year time frame for FOC so drop this cr*P. by the time India inducts a russian PAK-FA, PAF will also be in same stage of acquiring 5th generation chinese stealth fighters.
but a flash back for you.. in 65 and 71 war.. our 2nd generation fighters had higher kill ratio then your 3rd generation fighters...

What a BS...

About 1965 war: By the time the conflict ended, the PAF lost about 20 aircraft while the IAF lost 90 to 120 aircraft.[11] According to Indian sources, most of the IAF aircraft were lost on ground and it actually enjoyed a lower attrition rate (losses per 100 sorties) compared to the PAF during the course of the conflict.[12]

About 1971 War:

At the end of the war, the Indian Air Force claimed it had shot down 94 PAF aircraft, including 54 F-86 Sabres.[19] According to some sources, the overall attrition rate (losses per 100 sorties) was 0.48 for the IAF and 1.42 for the PAF,[20] the PAF flying 2914 combat sorties while the IAF flew 7,346 combat sorties[21][22]during the conflict.[23]According to a PAF officer, 61.5% of PAF's sorties were defensive while 65.5% of IAF's sorties were offensive.[24]

And Su30MKI is a 4.5 Gen, and all u have for a defence is JF17...LOL....

Chengdu J-10 Vigorous Dragon Indigenous 4.5th generation multi-role fighter with technology implemented from cancelled J-9 project.
The J-10B is a fifth generation future upgrade with 3D thrust vectoring and other possible features.

JF -13 or JF-XX is a chinese 5th Gen Aircraft on which PAK is relying heavily..

The only reason why India didn't wage a war is coz the Pak gov didn't deny its involvement and hence the consequences will be more far fetched in the international perspective...

Our F-16s are just as old as your Mirage-2000 and Mig-29 fleet.. our 46 F-16 fleet are going under MLU M3 which btw once upgraded will be technically superior to any of your 4th generation fleet even after a upgrade. and wikipeedia is not a reliable source so your stats of are not accurate at all.. for example india does not have "104" Mig-29 fulcurm which btw is not "folcon".
and once Erieye is cleared for FOC in PAF this year they will be data linked with F-16s and once tipped with AMRAAMS they will be able to challenge just about any none stealth fighter in the world.

... and I am supposed to believe the u are not perfect example of a delusional fanboy on steroids... 44 F-16 which doesn't even come closer to Su30 MKI ...

trained terrorists groups ready to be send to india for more destructions

.. The best line of Defence for Pak is Terrorism...and is clearly evident for what you are saying hence stop talking about u air force and leave it to India and see how we will finish of LeT & Taliban in the near future...

MOD would you please stop this kid in bringing BR **** in this forum, we already had enuf of their craps.

Everynow n then we find a new crapy fanboy with BR ****, please do something to stop this, otherwise we will loose the credibility of this forum.

 

[RajsParadise]

Hey,

I was just trying to put some facts as per the thread, and that to in simple terms... and by the way I am not a kid... why are u guys so franatic when it comes to facts..

I never divulge from the requirments from the norms of any forum as such but looks to me that few of you are not able to understand the essence of the thread itself....

... how would you expect one to respond when they say that trained terrorist are going to further inflict wounds to Indians... do you believe that it tactically possible to get away with everything especially terriorism in the light of the fact that what happened in SWAT valley which is part of Pakistan..

...All I was doing in the ernst while was to compare the capability in quantitive and qualitative analysis of two neighbouring countries ... and I see no harm in that and neither I used and derogatory remarks or racial remarks...

 

[Manticore]

*having a carrier is more of a liabilty then a benifit as u not only have to maintain it but also have to save it in war.
so u cant say that an airforce is better if it has a carrier.. we dont need a carrier for aircraft transport anyway as our enemy is right next to us.

*if india attacks, then china will also mobilize its fleet on the indian border where u guys have waged a war befor... so u cant use all those aircrafts against paf... particularly when china has put su30/j10 on the border.

*at the moment we are short of jets but we would be using our misslie assets , bombing the indian bases multiple time to the stoneage before our jets go for our missions.

*the oil reserves of both countries are only enough for a 3-4 day war... for those many days, our airforce can really stab u guys in the heart.

*we dont have anything to lose.. u on the other hand have all your economic/military assets that u are so proud of, right there in the open.. u guys are more vulnerable.. as a war will bring both our countries to the same level and termoil
.. u cant expect to win without a heavy cost

*if pakistan thinks that its losing,, our nuclear assets are for that precise time..

HONESTLY ANY WAR NOW WILL END UP IN NUCLEAR CONFRONTATION IF PAKISTAN IS WEAK...SO U SHOULD HOPE THAT WE HAVE A COMPAREABLE NON-NUCLEAR ASSETS, OTHERWISE WE WONT HASITATE USING OUT TRUMP CARD

*i can also give u many links on army comparisons in which pak army is above india... so plz dont post newby links.

 

[zombie:-)]

*the oil reserves of both countries are only enough for a 3-4 day war... for those many days, our airforce can really stab u guys in the heart.
we dont have anything to lose.. u on the other hand have all your economic/military assets that u are so proud of, right there in the open.. u guys are more vulnerable.. as a war will bring both our countries to the same level and termoil

SORRY BUT I BEG TO DIFFER BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME