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PAF & the ramifications of Rafale's sale to India

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Hands on ?? Do you even know what It means?

Have any of your pilots, if any actually, flew in f-16 ?

Yes, do a google search! Singapore F16's are based in India

IAF%2Band%2BRSAF%2Bair%2Band%2Bground%2Bcrew%2Bthat%2Bparticipated%2Bin%2Bthe%2BJoint%2BMilitary%2BTraining%2Bat%2Bthe%2BKalaikunda%2Bairbase%2Bin%2BWest%2BBengal%2Bpose%2Bfor%2Ba%2Bphotograph%2Bagainst%2Bthe%2Bbackdrop%2Bof%2BRSAF%2BF-16D%2BBlock%2B50%252B%2BFighting%2BFalcons-785917.jpg


Hi,
I can show you much better pics of PAkistani pilot sitting on the cockpit of Chinese su-30, Whereas can you show me YOUR pilot sitting on the cokcpit of f-16 if not actually flying it as you claimed


http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article1353.html

Like I said use google or ask any senior member here

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has got a feel of Pakistan's most modern fighter aircraft during a multi-nation exercise in France even before the aircraft have been delivered to the Pakistani Air Force (PAF).

Later this week, Pakistan will get its most modern fighter aircraft when the US delivers the first four of the advanced Block 52 F 16 aircraft as part of a deal to upgrade its military.

However, the IAF has sparred with the Block 52 version of the fighter — which is considered to be a generation ahead of the existing F 16 fleet of the PAF — during Exercise Garuda that is currently underway at the Istres Air Base in France. The IAF, which has deployed its SU 30MKI fighters for the exercise, has conducted aerial duels and joint missions to fully gauge the capabilities of the 'enemy' fighter. Pakistan is to get 18 of the Block 52 versions of the F 16 fighters under a deal with the US.

Sources said not only did IAF pilots get a feel of the operational characteristics of the fighter during the aerial war games but some pilots also got the chance to take sorties in the F 16 Block 52 aircraft of the Singapore Air Force that was part of the multi-nation aerial exercise involving India and France. A senior officer confirmed that this was also the first time that the IAF's SU 30MKIs were conducting an exercise with three modern fighters — the Rafale, F 16 and the Mirage 2000-5.

"Over 60 missions have been successfully flown during the exercise. The six IAF SU 30MKIs along with the Mirage-2000-5 and Rafale and the F-16 were engaged in various air defence manouvres such as implementation of "no fly zones" and large force engagements during day and night," IAF spokesperson Wing Commander Mahesh Upasani, who was present at the exercise, said.

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/iaf-gets-feel-of-latest-pak-fighter-aircraft/637758/

Hi,

Alright so its not even an exercise, that means it would have lasted a day or two at max. And you think that is good enough to challenge the other airorce which has been operating it since late 80's

Are you even aware there is F16's based in India from Singapore? we have many exercises with them and Thailand plus USA. It gives us a closer look and feel for our pilots, nobody said we have the experience of PAF on F16 but we know a fair bit about the jet.

Also the F16 was part of the MRCA tender we evaluated it and conducted hot and cold trials in India.
 
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Yes, do a google search! Singapore F16's are based in India

IAF%2Band%2BRSAF%2Bair%2Band%2Bground%2Bcrew%2Bthat%2Bparticipated%2Bin%2Bthe%2BJoint%2BMilitary%2BTraining%2Bat%2Bthe%2BKalaikunda%2Bairbase%2Bin%2BWest%2BBengal%2Bpose%2Bfor%2Ba%2Bphotograph%2Bagainst%2Bthe%2Bbackdrop%2Bof%2BRSAF%2BF-16D%2BBlock%2B50%252B%2BFighting%2BFalcons-785917.jpg
Hi,
I can show you much better pics of PAkistani pilot sitting on the cockpit of Chinese su-30, Whereas can you show me YOUR pilot sitting on the cokcpit of f-16 if not actually flying it as you claimed

Do you think US would have problems with Indians getting information on F-16s?
Yes OFC they have very strict end user agreements

http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article1353.html

Like I said use google or ask any senior member here
Hi,

Alright so its not even an exercise, that means it would have lasted a day or two at max. And you think that is good enough to challenge the other airorce which has been operating it since late 80's
 
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A long-term investment in a 5th-generation platform frees up PAF funds for near-term needs while providing its fleet with a force multiplier at around the same time Indian forces induct both the Rafale (in large numbers) and the FGFA (in small numbers). If the PAF feels the need to aim for technological parity, a simple yet effective MLU of its F-16s and JF-17s with AESA radars and new EW suites would be nothing to scoff at.



I thought it was pretty clear that the IAF would be purchasing 36 jets in order to supplement/replace their MiG-29 fleet. However these Rafales will be maintained/deployed/used are nuances that are insignificant to the technological and tactical boost that they will bestow upon the IAF. Pakistan should quixotically undertake all the points you mentioned, but military funding doesn't grow on trees; they need to calculate which modernization path provides the greatest strategic return on whatever investment they've committed to it.

No the order would definitely be increased as Indian Navy would also want Rafale M because they have recently parted the Harriers. The LCA does not make the ideal replacement and it would also take time for the Navy to get them because the Air Force orders would have priority.

No Air Force would spend billions on a very limited number of aircraft and the time for a replacement would also be around 20-25 years (2040-2045).

As you have stated money doesn't grow on trees this is the very reason we have to prioritise what is the need of the hour. When the threat increases one has to open not just their eyes but also sharpen their other senses. There are two ways of fighting one is based on numerical advantage of the top most stuff which Pakistan can never attain. The other is what Pakistan is best known for an asymmetrical fight. Asymmetrical can be achieved in all aspects of the Pakistan Armed Forces... How?
1) Pakistan army has made technical nuclear weapons to repel or destroy the Indian doctrine of cold start.
2) PAF JF-17's and the SAM can take out majority of the IAF aircraft.
3) PN is the weakest link, it need to increase the number of fast attack boats and missile craft so that a sea denial capability can be achieved before the IN can penetrate deep inside Pakistan's territorial and EEZ.

One point to note is the timing.

RAFALEs would be inducted into IAF ~2020. J-31 should be available to Pakistan by then.
This was the very reason PAF should ask the Chinese to expedite the J-31, even if it it is delivered 6 months prior to the Rafales PAF would have enough combat training and made the tactics.

No 2 is very hard if the program is successful then only can think of expediting. Number 8 is so impractical that I do not know t laugh or cry. Number 6 is financially hard I can under stand maintain 13 but going to 20 without proper Air and support in the waters is looking for trouble not to mention it is economically not practical. 11-15 is optimum number of sub provided 3 -6 have second strike capability.
Bro,
Rome was not built in a day...

The points in my post are all possible with time, finances can be generated over a period let say 5 -10 years. The Indian Rafales if ordered within 2016 would arrive no earlier than 2019-2020. It is 3-4 years Pakistan can till this time develop JF-17 blk 3, it can sign a contract for additional 7 subs. Building of a wall can start with fence, so far a trench has been constructed. Mountains can have watch towers at key positions no one is thinking that Pakistan should be building some thing like Great Wall of China.

So how come it is not technology (Leak or violation) when Singapore F16 gives access to Indians on F16 just curious
It is very simple

USA's baby is Israel.
Israel's baby is Singapore.
 
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No the order would definitely be increased as Indian Navy would also want Rafale M because they have recently parted the Harriers. The LCA does not make the ideal replacement and it would also take time for the Navy to get them because the Air Force orders would have priority.

No Air Force would spend billions on a very limited number of aircraft and the time for a replacement would also be around 20-25 years (2040-2045).

As you have stated money doesn't grow on trees this is the very reason we have to prioritise what is the need of the hour. When the threat increases one has to open not just their eyes but also sharpen their other senses. There are two ways of fighting one is based on numerical advantage of the top most stuff which Pakistan can never attain. The other is what Pakistan is best known for an asymmetrical fight. Asymmetrical can be achieved in all aspects of the Pakistan Armed Forces... How?
1) Pakistan army has made technical nuclear weapons to repel or destroy the Indian doctrine of cold start.
2) PAF JF-17's and the SAM can take out majority of the IAF aircraft.
3) PN is the weakest link, it need to increase the number of fast attack boats and missile craft so that a sea denial capability can be before the IN can penetrate deep inside Pakistan's territorial and EEZ.


This was the very reason PAF should ask the Chinese to expedite the J-31, even if it it is delivered 6 months prior to the Rafales PAF would have enough combat training and made the tactics.


Bro,
Rome was not built in a day...

The points in my post are all possible with time, finances can be generated over a period let say 5 -10 years. The Indian Rafales if ordered within 2016 would arrive no earlier than 2019-2020. It is 3-4 years Pakistan can till this time develop JF-17 blk 3, it can sign a contract for additional 7 subs. Building of a wall can start with fence, so far a trench has been constructed. Mountains can have watch towers at key positions no one is thinking that Pakistan should be building some thing like Great Wall of China.


It is very simple

USA's baby is Israel.
Israel's baby is Singapore.


Bro,

This rome is being built for too long----. If it has not happened in the last 15 years ago at the most urgent moment----why would it happen now!
 
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Bro,

This rome is being built for too long----. If it has not happened in the last 15 years ago at the most urgent moment----why would it happen now!
We say in 1947 there was a nation with no country today we have a country but no nation...

Every thing has to start from some where and that some where is REALISATION. As a nation we have suffered many things and much has been lost...Time has come when we decide once and for all that we are going to be loyal to our soul.

It took 15 yrs to destroy it would take lot less to rebuild if one is determined.
 
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So how come it is not technology (Leak or violation) when Singapore F16 gives access to Indians on F16 just curious

Do you think US would have problems with Indians getting information on F-16s? US shares much more classified information with Indian military directly.

From US perspective, India is not China.
 
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We say in 1947 there was a nation with no country today we have a country but no nation...

Every thing has to start from some where and that some where is REALISATION. As a nation we have suffered many things and much has been lost...Time has come when we decide once and for all that we are going to be loyal to our soul.


Guy,

Don't bullsh-it me.
 
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No the order would definitely be increased as Indian Navy would also want Rafale M because they have recently parted the Harriers. The LCA does not make the ideal replacement and it would also take time for the Navy to get them because the Air Force orders would have priority.

No Air Force would spend billions on a very limited number of aircraft and the time for a replacement would also be around 20-25 years (2040-2045).

As you have stated money doesn't grow on trees this is the very reason we have to prioritise what is the need of the hour. When the threat increases one has to open not just their eyes but also sharpen their other senses. There are two ways of fighting one is based on numerical advantage of the top most stuff which Pakistan can never attain. The other is what Pakistan is best known for an asymmetrical fight. Asymmetrical can be achieved in all aspects of the Pakistan Armed Forces... How?
1) Pakistan army has made technical nuclear weapons to repel or destroy the Indian doctrine of cold start.
2) PAF JF-17's and the SAM can take out majority of the IAF aircraft.
3) PN is the weakest link, it need to increase the number of fast attack boats and missile craft so that a sea denial capability can be achieved before the IN can penetrate deep inside Pakistan's territorial and EEZ.


This was the very reason PAF should ask the Chinese to expedite the J-31, even if it it is delivered 6 months prior to the Rafales PAF would have enough combat training and made the tactics.

Interim aircraft may provide a time-pressed solution to the IAF threat, but their strategic impact in the balance of power in South Asia will be ultimately short-lived. Factor in the delivery time and crew training, and you will end up with a platform that will be unable to maintain some semblance of parity once IAF inducts the FGFA.
 
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With the ongoing rafale acquisation by India, a lot of threads on the ramifications are bound to open in the paf section.

6--To Indian posters, what would you suggest PAF do OTHER than bolstering economy and admitting that India is a super power

Why does 36 Rafale fighters change the balance of power ?? Rafale is to deter the PLAAF

Well I traditionally follow , an approach of local R&D or working with what we have.
Pakistan's strength is their Engineering and Human Resources.

Do you really believe in this ??
India's out-performance in the technology sector should have been an eye opener

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Hi,
I can show you much better pics of PAkistani pilot sitting on the cockpit of Chinese su-30, Whereas can you show me YOUR pilot sitting on the cokcpit of f-16 if not actually flying it as you claimed


Yes OFC they have very strict end user agreements


Hi,

Alright so its not even an exercise, that means it would have lasted a day or two at max. And you think that is good enough to challenge the other airorce which has been operating it since late 80's

PLAAF Su-30 MKK is quite different from IAF Su-30 MKI
 
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With the ongoing rafale acquisation by India, a lot of threads on the ramifications are bound to open in the paf section.

MODS will monitor this thread to keep it ON-TOPIC


To New Members;
Any poster posting in urdu or slang will be immediately thread banned. I am sick and tired of watching people posting urdu in english alphabets and will start to actively infract them

I have written a template in my first post in this thread. So that new/young members dont post one liners instead have an idea where to take the content of the thread.

You can pick any of the points in my template to discuss or you can discuss all the points briefly yet comprehensively like milspec just did.

Avoid offtopic one liners or you wont be taken seriously. Morover it takes the forum quality down.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/paf-the-...les-sale-to-india.427156/page-3#ixzz463l71Hje

Discussion should revolve around these points--- useless posts will be deleted, posters thread banned




1--What is PAF's priority [ Land defence,Sea denial, deep attacks with heavy bombs or smart ammunitions ] ?


2--Can jf-17 completely meet those demands/doctrine even after aesa/ifr probe/composites/strengthened structure/tweaked engine?


3--If not what are the options and possible numbers? Is the cost of buying/ training/maintenance/spare parts/ years to build strategy/ availability rate worth the hassle?


4--S300 copies vs introduction of another 4.5 gen fighter


5--Should we wait another decade for j31 or should we buy some 4.5 gen fighter instead and develop tactics in the meanwhile


6--To Indian posters, what would you suggest PAF do OTHER than bolstering economy and admitting that India is a super power


7--Is the replacement of 190 old fighters with a BVR capable light fighter sufficient keeping in view Pakistan's economy?


8--J10 and JF-17 may have similar capability but they DON'T have SAME capability. Are the J-10 an ideal replacement for the mirage squadrons?


9--Is there any chance of getting reliable subsystems for jft from the French?

10--Other than numbers, what capability rafale brings to IAF, which they wont exploit in the su30 including its naval role

11-- Importance of loiter time in war

12--Are destroyers, submarines, helicopters, s300 derivatives and cruise missiles the answer?

13--Importance of joint ventures for subsystems avionics / ammunitions with countries other than China


I will respond to only point 6, because that's what @Manticore asked from the Indian Member.

1. The big question is does Pakistani Armed forces makes strategies against one weapon on One by One basis, the answer is probably no !! So, why PAF or pakistani strategy should be be only to counter Rafale, rather the PAF should, think of is to provide, its logical reason of their existance which is to provide, the Air Security to its country i.e Pakistan.

2. The first question should, be why IAF is acquiring Rafale, and what strategy or the doctrine would be changed by the IAF. The short answer is the IAF/India is now planning for the short, decisive, high intensity, net centric, sharp war, and to achieve its objective, in the shortest period of time. So When IAF already have Su-30MKI Airsuperiority fighter planes in large number, which is going to have the deep upgradation to the Super Sukhoi Standard, Mig 29 upgradation going on to Mig 29 UPG, Mirrage 2000 to Mirrage 2000 UPG, and for the tactical strike the Jaguar, now planned for the Darin -3 Upgradation. What was the need for the Rafale, and for what IAF was so desperate to get.

3. Lets focus on the PAF without the early warning System, AWACS and with AWACS. The Gulf war have showed, that the technology plays a crucial role, in the war, and one of the reason, for the NATO to have an uper hand during the Gulf war, was the total Situation Awareness of the real war situation, which provides the NATO pilots, to have an edge over the Iraqi pilots. One NATO comander comments, that even if the IRAQI's have the western aircrafts, and the NATO with the Soviet combat planes, the result would have been the Same.

So even if the Jaguar, the deep Strike specialized combat bomber of the IAF, is able to fly at the low altitude (50 Mt above the ground), it can avoid the ground radar detection with terrain following, terrain following capability, but with the AWAAC deployed in the area, could still detect, the Jaguars flying at low altitude, as high speed.

So what have changed by the new technologies, for that read bellow.

4 For an Airforce, to achieve an objectives, have to play various roles -- Air Superiority, SEAD, DEAD, EW Warfare, Ground Attack, Tactical Interdiction, CAS, Recce, Counter Air operation, transportation and support, refuel tankers, SIGNIT etc etc. If you check out what IAF is now planning you will find out few changes in the doctrine and the roles.
  • For the CAS, the planes like HAWK equipped with the IRST can provide, due to the availability of the LGB kits, designated by the laser targeting equipment, even from the soldier on the tactical ground. That's why the plan for the Combat Hawk by HAL and BAE, which can act as LIFT during the peace situation, and as CAS aircraft during the war.
  • The availability, of the long range, standoff weapons, and Air to ground and Ground to ground Cruise Missiles have allowed the pilot to attack the ground target with accuracy, from the high or medium altitude, and from the safer strandoff distance. Thus there is no need for the dedicated Ground attack Aircraft such as MIG-27, and the job would be fullfilled by the JAGUAR Darin-3 with the smart GPU Munition against the armoured and mobile targets.
  • With the proliferation of the HOBS Missiles such as deadly R-73, Python 4/5, IRIS-T, AIM-9X, the WVR fight become the mutual suicide to both the opponent (HARA KARI). So the old WVR dogfight, would be avoided by all the Pilot, with Brain in their Skull, and the focus, would be on the long range BVR fight. And in case of the BVR fight, the upper hand is for those, who have better Radar, (Long Range, better detection, AESA), Better Countermeasures such as DIRCM, Jammers, decoys, and better sensors and offcourse better tactics, and training. So how IAF is transfroming itself -- R-77, R-23, Bars N01M, virgilus Jammers, EL/L-8222, and lot of international war games, training exercises etc.
  • IAF, was reluctant to accept, the LCA Tejas MK-1 in 2012, a 4th Gen. fighter plane, which exceeded the MIG-21 Bison in most of the technologies, and capability, but rather only excepted to induct 100 + Birds only with the SOP 2018 Standard, which includes EL/M-AESA from Elta, F-404 IN20 Engine from GE, Aerial Refuel Probe, and with the deadly Python 5, and Derby ER Long range BVRAAM, for the Interceptor Role of the Mig-21. The reason was that without SOP-2018, the LCA MK-1 didn't fit into the IAF new revised Doctorine.
  • So Does Rafale is for the SEAD/DEAD or against AWAACs and to counter the Pakistani Air Defense early on the war between India or Pakistan or China ?? Probably No -- For China, the tactics of IAF should be defensive, and for Pakistan, she don't possess strong Air Defense and also, India already have planes and UAV to do so. With the long range Brahmos Cruise Missiles, and with the SEAD/DEAD Specific Super Sukhoi Su-30 MKI, armed with A2G Brahmos, the airbases of the Pakistani AWAACs are going to be the first target.
  • One reason, which few experts explain, is that the Rafale, have the Low altitude flying capability, with low RCS, terrain hugging, terrain following, ground mapping and targetting capability, for which the MKI is not certified by its OEM's, and though BARS N01 is a good and powerful A2A Radar, with ground targetting capability, and is going for the AESA Upgrade, with the Super Sukhoi Upgrade, but what is important to note that the Russian Radars and algorithm are still inferior to the western or the Israeli to locate the Ground target, from the ground Clutter.
  • The Future plans for IAF -- FGFA -- JV 5th Generation LO Stealth fighter Plane, Stealth Combat USAV , AURA/Ghatak , Airforce specific Geo stationary Satellite from ISRO , Indegenous Long Range SAM (Based on AAD Ashwin), Long Range BVR ASTRA MK-2, IAF futuristic Battlefield Mangement System, Hell lot of UAV from Israel, and USA for Survellance, Long Range Anti Radiation Missiles. This completely shows, that IAF is preparing itself for the 5th Generation Air Warfare. For the starter the 5th Gen Air warfare, is not specifically the warfare by the so called Stealth Fighter planes like F-22, F-35, or J-20. 2 More Phalcon AWAACs from Israel, and DRDO Radome AWAACs --6 in number based on Airbus A-330, and EMB-149.
  • The future is the sensor fusion that links its pilot to a wealth of information. The aircraft which can also “talk to” nearly every other platform on the battlefield, the fighter planes which are designed with identical, completely interoperable sensing capabilities that will produce unprecedented situational and battlespace awareness.
  • Though planes like Rafale, EF-2000, F-15-E, Su--35 are not designed as the LO or Stealth planes, but they are capable platform, to play part in the 5th Generation, net centric Air warfare.
5. As seen above, the main focus of the IAF is now on the 5th Gen. Warfare, which is slowly taking shape and will need another 10-15 years, and in that Rafale easily fits into the IAF doctorine. There was hell lot of talks and discussion on the PDF space, about the delay with the Rafale Deal, and speculated news of the Deal Cancel, and India talking to build F-16, F-18 SH, Saab Grippen, EF-2000, or More MKI. but the Deal, is very much strategic in nature How ??
  • M88 Upgrade talks -- Why ?? because, for the future upgrade, you need to add more LRU's and with that the planes becomes more Bulky, and needs more powerful engine.
  • Scorpean Deal -- UAE too is acquiring Scorpean, and Rafale.
  • Aura USAV <----> French nUERON stealth USAV.
  • Make in India --- Building the planes in India will lower the cost, that's what Russia was doing for so many years with the MKI, and spares build in India, for the International market.
6. Now last how to counter all this by PAF -- This can be countered by PAF/Pakistan is by putting the effort and resource to acquire the 5th Generation capability. @MastanKhan have said in this forum many times, the need for the Superiority Fighter plane, and he is correct, because for the likes of J-31 Stealth Planes, to get the maximum benifits, the PAF need the Air Superiority Plane like F-15-E, EF-2000, or SU-35.

Though I think, the PAF should have inducted J-10 instead of JF-17 because, J-10 have more space for the upgradation, and it is an excellent design, and will be the backbone of the PLAAF, and would have ensure the PAF, the future upgrade by the Chinese, and could have easily customized it for the PAF need, but that was PAF decission, and the economical condition or the thinking of the PAF decission makers, and now there is no good to discuss that thing. So what should be the PAF response right now. Looking at the budget constrain, the PAF should look toward the China and the USA, which can provide the high end weapon with the loans.
  • Ask China for the KLJ-500 AEW EC
  • Join J-31 stealth fighter plane project, and become the first customer cum customization as per PAF need.
  • Atleast One Air Superiority fighter plane.
  • Long Range BVR's and HOBS missiles
  • Try to get the AESA MMR for F-16 Block 52 and IRST from USA.
  • Long Range SAMs and robust airdefence systems.
  • C4I integration, will intensive fibre optical network to all the bases.
These are my recomendations, and would like to be a readers with the seniors giving their inputs and views on this thread.





1) Increase the number of JF-17 blk 3 with Selex AESA radar & avionics.
2) Put some token money in J-31 or TFX program for early development. Meanwhile work on JF-17 stealth version should be initiated.
3) Get A-darter & Marlin BVR missiles with HMDS and integrate on all JF-17 blocks.
4) Get 36 customized Su-35s from Russia (having AESA-N050-Radar & K-77M bvr missiles) with approval for procurement of 60 Chinese J-11D having AL-37FU/ 117S thrust-vectoring turbofan engines. Please note that Procurement of Su-35 will open the gate for Chinese J-10s & other J series aircrafts with Russian engines.
5) Get S-350E Vityaz missile systems from Russia & Marlin SAM system from SA/Brazil for PAF.
6) Get Pantsyr-2 missile systems from Russia with Tot & Umkhonto IR Block II system for army air defence.
7) Join local production of a Mi-28 attack helicopter with dual control & 360° millimetre-wave radar system.
8) Replace all old MPDR systems with Turkish KALKAN Air Defence Radar
9) All fire control radars for guns and short range missiles should be replaced with ASELSAN Mobile Search 3D Radar.
10) PAF to introduce KORAL, a transportable system with jamming and deception capabilities that can paralyze hostile radar
11) Introduce submarine launched babar cruise missile.

Excellent recomendation !!!

Can you pls post the amount of Money required to get all those.
 
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The 8 points that you have mentioned do not completely describe the situation. Why?

1) The true picture of how many Rafales are actually being bought is still not known.
2) Where are these Rafales be stationed.
3) The kind of war strategy IAF would device for the Rafales.
4) What other assets would be available along with the Rafales.
5) Will the IN also buy Rafale M's if yes then how many and what kind of battle scenario would that make.

The Role of PAF in the beginning was to have a hard hitting force which would have latest and best equipment. After the 1965 war this has become a dream. The threat of sanctions and non availability of advance weapons and delivery systems really limits the capabilities of deep strike and air supremacy that was attained in 1965.

Looking at present or the 2-4 years that PAF has before considerable number of Rafales enter IAF service we can only see that PAF is only capable of denial of airspace over Pakistan. This conclusion is evident from the limited number of F-16s PAF has as compared to SU-30 MKI.

What should be done?
IMO
1) Increase the number of JF-17 blk 3 ASAP.
2) Ask China to expedite the J-31
3) Join some SAM program and build low, medium, and high altitude locally.
4) Join local production of a decent attack helicopter.
5) Increase the number of fast attack boats for coastal defences.
6) Increase the number of Submarines from the planed 13 to 20.
7) Try to purchase Corvettes from Russia with TOT.
8) Make a wall on the Western Boarder with Afghanistan.
9) Upgrade the radar systems.

@Manticore can you change the topic of the post to:

"Ramifications For Pakistan Against The Indian Dream Of Becoming A Super Power"

Wall with Afghanistan? Donald Trump much?

Seriously though, that would be too expensive. We should just try to keep things contained in Afghanistan via surgical strikes and negotiations.
 
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1) The true picture of how many Rafales are actually being bought is still not known.
2) Where are these Rafales be stationed.
3) The kind of war strategy IAF would device for the Rafales.
4) What other assets would be available along with the Rafales.
5) Will the IN also buy Rafale M's if yes then how many and what kind of battle scenario would that make.

1. The Plan is to bring 189 Rafale for the IAF and if selected additional 40 + Rafale-M for the Indian Navy. If I have to speculate than atleast 70-90 numbers of Rafale should be by 2025 in India.
2. The Rafale would be stationed mostly in the eastern border, but IAF with the tankers and aerial refuel capability will have the flexibility to move them quickly, and having Long legged MKI in large number would make it easy for the IAF to move most of the Rafale to the Western front.
3. The strategy is to put the rafale on the deep strike mission on the harderned and strategic important ground target like Radar installation with its strandoff weapons like cruise missiles, without getting the Air Superiority in the PAF airspace, early stages of the War and to do SEAD/DEAD Operations.
4. Long Range Survellance UAV, Super Sukhoi Su-30 MKI (One Super Sukhoi can direct 6 Rafale in a mission), Phalcon AEW EC.
5. Most probably, because India, is not going to sign CISMOA, BECA, and without that no F-35 for IN, and no other contendor plus, the comonality with the Rafale of IAF to lower down the training, and MRO facilities.

The Role of PAF in the beginning was to have a hard hitting force which would have latest and best equipment. After the 1965 war this has become a dream. The threat of sanctions and non availability of advance weapons and delivery systems really limits the capabilities of deep strike and air supremacy that was attained in 1965.

PAF was impressed with the ISRAELI Air Force tactics, and tried to implement the same, without putting enough resources and efforts. No parties was able to get the Air Superiority in the WAR of 1965, and after getting few attiration, both parties limits to the night raid only.

We have good chance to secure more new and used F 16s reason is India not gonna induct any fighter from US no matter what US offers them plus JF 17 blk 3 Blk 52 F 16 is as good as Rafale is icing if we have $$ a heavy jet twin engine could be Boeing F 15 eagles .

Correct, there is Zero chances of F-16's or F-18 coming for IAF
JF-17 Block -3 -- I don't have the spec.
F-16 Block 52 of PAF equal to Rafale F3, You are completely wrong.
F-15 E -- Excellent Choise, and the Best One, but probability is closed to Zero.
 
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