Paf Sabotaged The Purchase Of New Aircraft For 30 Years---Open A Case

[Windjammer]

@Oscar

http://www.airforcesmonthly.com/2017/05/19/pakistan-to-get-more-erieyes/

 

[YeBeWarned]

@Oscar

http://www.airforcesmonthly.com/2017/05/19/pakistan-to-get-more-erieyes/

can we expect more Fighters after this budget ? i am hoping bro

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar what is the anatomy of this all encompassing corruption and apathy?

It can't be just liminted to armed forces... is national bureauracy also equally infected?

About the political class of Pak PDF has educated me enough.

I would like to understand the root-cause of this cancer. What generates it, what sustains it?

I would value your 'acidic' take on it. If you be so kind to educate this poster..

Perhaps there is nothing I or you can do about it...but for now I have chosen not be silent about it. I might not be part of Pak society...but I do have deep love for people of Indus.

Generated via a combination of illiteracy and ignorance. As a closer example take the state of the Chinese establishment during the 60s and 70s with corruption and nepotism rife all over- workers were from all over China and the elite were busy raping the nation under the context of the party and maoism.

As more and more Chinese got educated and exposed to the world, their tolerance for their officials being corrupt(and each other engaging in corruption) got lower. The party and government officials had to adapt to avoid another Tianemen.
Not to say disappeared from China, but as a per population and economic ratio its reduced and changed its application.

Power corrupts, but that is why there are checks and balances all over the world. A US Admiral can make millions off giving contracts to a Malaysian Playboy businessman but eventually he will get caught because the people will demand it. They are educated enough and aware enough to know it is wrong.

The same is now happening in China.
But Pakistanis are by far and wide not educated nor exposed to that levels yet as to what is right and wrong for decent human beings.
That has to do with a combination of social, economic factors that couple with a lack of education and a general acceptance of fait accompli which has them either accept corruption and nepotism as a normal part of life.
Those that do even find it wrong are too apathetic to do anything beyond commenting on facebook for it.
There is no activism besides petty politics based on rhetoric, hence the country is in such a stagnating dive despite all these rosy economic figures(half baked mostly)

@Oscar

http://www.airforcesmonthly.com/2017/05/19/pakistan-to-get-more-erieyes/

Wohi hai janaab, aur kissi ki paas na aqal hai ya wafadari aur lagan hai iss mulk ko chalane ki.

But even that will wear out if the people of this country do not change.

 

[Pyara9]

Hi,

It is funny and it is painful.

The Govt of pakistan has decided to open cases of corruption against Paf officers retroactively.

What the next important steps they need to take is to open an inquiry and and charge those who sabotaged the procurement of a potent fighter aircraft in the last 30 years---.

All dishonest and HONEST officers who FAILED to acquire the aircraft---must be equally charged with sabotaging the defense of the nation and conspiring to create a situation to give the enemy and upper hand in an air battle.

Specially the one regarding the Mirage 2000 purchase in early 90's---those who went for the second batch of F16's in the late 80's---those who refused the Rafale procurement---those who did not force upon the U S after 9/11 for the F16 immediately---those who failed to comprehend the change in U S public opinion regarding the sale of F16's---specially those who donated the Paf funds for the aircraft to the earthquake relief---.

Those who refused the procurement of the J10B's 3 years ago---.

They must all be charged with treason---all properties confiscated and they should be hanged for conspiring to weakne the defense of the nation----Pakistan Zindabad.

I told you guys a few months ago that I am going to go after the Paf---. It has started---where it is going to end up---I do not know---.

Another thread for bashing PAF nice. While completely ignoring the fact that we were under sanctions for 20 years, Had to deal with Terrorists, Give Nuclear assets the periorty.

Let's suppose for a second that instead of making Nuclear tech periorty #1, Instead we had i dunno maybe 40 odd F-35's? Few top notch ships? Would that give Pak an edge over India in anyway? Absolutely not. Jets, ships loose their edge in abt 20 years new technology comes along n your shiny new F-35 is obsolete. You know what doesn't loose its edge? The ultimate weapon.. Wreck way more mayham then any number of jets,ships. Make india think twice.. get it?


Also please note there is some level of corruption in every country in the world. India is no better then Pak corruption wise.

The reason why we don't have new shiny jets, Ships is... Sanctions, Terrorists, Bit of discrimination from west, our economical situation due to matters mentioned above. Our choice to focus all our resources on the ultimate weapon.

Also, Jf-17 is a game changer indeed. biggest accomplishment of our Airforce.. The benefits of that project may not be apparent at the moment but wait another 20 years and you will realize how much of accomplishment that was. For Paf it's definitely bigger then few odd F-35's.

Let's just analyze Kargil war for second. India had every conventional advantage you can think of.. not to mention international support, way of justifying the attack. Our jets didn't even have bvr for crying out loud. Why do you think they didn't attack?


Few new shiny jets, ships would definitely help you in di*k measuring contest tho. Even though they would serve no real purpose.

Just my opinion, no offense intended.
PAF FTW!!!

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Generated via a combination of illiteracy and ignorance. As a closer example take the state of the Chinese establishment during the 60s and 70s with corruption and nepotism rife all over- workers were from all over China and the elite were busy raping the nation under the context of the party and maoism.

As more and more Chinese got educated and exposed to the world, their tolerance for their officials being corrupt(and each other engaging in corruption) got lower. The party and government officials had to adapt to avoid another Tianemen.
Not to say disappeared from China, but as a per population and economic ratio its reduced and changed its application.

Power corrupts, but that is why there are checks and balances all over the world. A US Admiral can make millions off giving contracts to a Malaysian Playboy businessman but eventually he will get caught because the people will demand it. They are educated enough and aware enough to know it is wrong.

The same is now happening in China.
But Pakistanis are by far and wide not educated nor exposed to that levels yet as to what is right and wrong for decent human beings.
That has to do with a combination of social, economic factors that couple with a lack of education and a general acceptance of fait accompli which has them either accept corruption and nepotism as a normal part of life.
Those that do even find it wrong are too apathetic to do anything beyond commenting on facebook for it.
There is no activism besides petty politics based on rhetoric, hence the country is in such a stagnating dive despite all these rosy economic figures(half baked mostly)


Wohi hai janaab, aur kissi ki paas na aqal hai ya wafadari aur lagan hai iss mulk ko chalane ki.

But even that will wear out if the people of this country do not change.

Oscar,

Allow me to thank you for a very studied response.

Of course it is such. China is a different planet... but your observations are not off the mark.

Apathy... is perhaps equal in guilt as is the criminal.

In this Corruption Cybernetic Loop... there is only backward movement now... techonology has made people willfully disowe their tiny intellect. Now they can post selfiez as you mentioned. And most will be 'educated'.

If my lifetime study of China and Chinese people has taught me anything...( on positve accentuation now)... is the fact that despite immense and generational corruption... there was and is a sense of the Middle Kingdom and its revival.

I don't see any such deeper anchor in Pak elite.

Masses everywhere get exploited even here in the West... its the degree of such exploitation that matters.

Anyhow, thanks!


SPF

 

[Pak.one]

Su 27 were never offered to us. I need to see the source.

In second term of bibi Russians offer su 27 to us and at the same day french was also there with offer of M2k.but the money was problemso no deal materialise and in mid 90s russian was also in a deep financial trouble era of Boris Yeltsin so they were ready to sell weapons but only on hard cash.and our money was in US pocket for embargo F16. So we just limited on window shopping, nothing else

 

[sparten]

Su-27 was not bought because the PAF evaluated it and found it to be a maintenance hog. As for Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 the French jacked up the price several times.

Money was never an issue with Su-27. With the Mirage's, it was because they were fleecing us. Later when we told them to GTFO, they ended up giving us ToT for on many M2000-5 Mk2 avionics during the ROSE program.,