PAF revamped Air Defense Alert System

[Gripen9]

IRR instead of IIR too

Whole institution has gone to the dogs....

 

[SQ8]

Sir plz enlighten us why two seeker versions for Air to Air missile
IIR
Active Radar Seeker
With reference to their specific use environment
@farooqbhai007

Not sure why IDS went with it on the SD-10 platform but they might be trying to do a IRIS-T equivalent.

Since we don’t know of any local purchases done by Pakistani forces yet - it is speculation (not confirmed) that the system did not meet their specifications hence the export push.

 

[TheSolution]

And Faaz-1 (reverse engineered SD-10) is being offered for export. Additionally a IIR Seeker variant also appears to have been developed indicating Faaz-1 missile project wasnt abandoned.
@SQ8 @Bilal. @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD

Also idk if its a typo error but both missiles are branded as Air to ground missiles weird.

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Were these indigenously developed or just rebranded?

 

[Gripen9]

Were these indigenously developed or just rebranded?

Reverse engineering SD-10 and using it as base for updates.

 

[TheSolution]

Reverse engineering SD-10 and using it as base for updates.

Okay, nice, because I've seen a few companies based in Pakistan rebranding foreign-sourced technology.

We need to focus on building our ecosystem, infrastructure and knowledge indigenously as we can not rely on anyone else but ourselves.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Not sure why IDS went with it on the SD-10 platform but they might be trying to do a IRIS-T equivalent.

Since we don’t know of any local purchases done by Pakistani forces yet - it is speculation (not confirmed) that the system did not meet their specifications hence the export push.

IMO...I suspect it's SD-10-based and built under license from China. I believe the armed forces now have a strategy in place to locally produce as many critical munitions as possible, AAMs and SAMs included. The re-export aspect could be part of a deal with China where they get a second conduit to sell stuff in case of US sanctions or pressures on the receiving market.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

IMO...I suspect it's SD-10-based and built under license from China

It must be a full fledged transfer of technology then since AWC is aiming for 180km range in FAAZ 2 variant
That means China has transferred us full IP rights about design
Dual Pulse Rocket motor tech
On board Active Radar tech

IIR seeker seems to be indigenous since it is now a versatile system used on Taimoor also.

Were these indigenously developed or just rebranded?

Zarb anti Ship missile was a tot of c-602 now we have derived Harbah NG
And most importantly Taimoor ALCM with seeker tech derived from baseline C-602
Expecting the same for Faaz A2A also if it's a tot of SD 1

 

[Dazzler]

There's nothing wrong with FAAZ 1 but PAF is not keen on inducting a weapon system analogous in general performance to SD 10A/ AMRAAM COMBO. Instead, they are focused on long range bvrs like FAAZ 2/ PL15.

FAAZ 1 is reserve engineered SD10A with some local tweaks to seeker and rocket motor. However, FAAZ 2 is still largely a mystery as there's no news on copying of PL15.

 

[farooqbhai007]

Whole institution has gone to the dogs....

Your brain has gone to dogs has well.

IRR instead of IIR too

Sloppy typo from whoever was asked to make that marketing(probably no real marketers involved)

Software updated successfully

 

[Zephyrus]

IIR must be dual mode seeker, 100km is a tad too high for an IIR seeker.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Your brain has gone to dogs has well.


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what confidence will any pruchaser have in the missiles if they cannot even get the advertising correct ???????

 

[Bilal.]

IIR must be dual mode seeker, 100km is a tad too high for an IIR seeker.

Mid-course is done via aircraft radar. It’s only in the terminal phase closer to target aircraft that the missiles own seeker guidance takes over.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

There's nothing wrong with FAAZ 1 but PAF is not keen on inducting a weapon system analogous in general performance to SD 10A/ AMRAAM COMBO. Instead, they are focused on long range bvrs like FAAZ 2/ PL15.

FAAZ 1 is reserve engineered SD10A with some local tweaks to seeker and rocket motor. However, FAAZ 2 is still largely a mystery as there's no news on copying of PL15.

Several years ago, I heard that the PAF was weighing more capable SD-10A variants for the Block-III (before the PL-15E became available).

It wouldn't surprise me if the PAF (while buying PL-15E off-the-shelf) also picked up the SD-10A projects as an in-house program (first license production with original upgrades later).

In of itself, the SD-10A is a good platform with all of the fundamentals in place, e.g., dual-pulse motor rocket (DPMR), tested airframe, etc. So, if the Chinese now offered it with local production and deeper collaborative support (to rework it as a SAM, upgrade later, etc) then you go for it.

However, the key here is that Pakistan doesn't fall into the trap of perpetual dependence on the Chinese. They need to absorb the DPMR technology and build upon it with indigenous inputs. I hope the FAAZ-2 is the outcome of that initiative, though it might be too soon to expect that right now, unless the SD-10 ToT was bought like in 2015.

Overall, manufacturing a workhorse AAM series and SAM series (e.g., DK-10, which is based on SD-10) is a prudent decision. You don't have to buy a large number of missiles upfront and be locked to a single variant, but acquire gradually and iterate improvements with each new batch. You can also replenish stocks after a conflict and, albeit to a lesser degree, during one if you can up production rates in wartime.

 

[JamD]

Several years ago, I heard that the PAF was weighing more capable SD-10A variants for the Block-III (before the PL-15E became available).

It wouldn't surprise me if the PAF (while buying PL-15E off-the-shelf) also picked up the SD-10A projects as an in-house program (first license production with original upgrades later).

In of itself, the SD-10A is a good platform with all of the fundamentals in place, e.g., dual-pulse motor rocket (DPMR), tested airframe, etc. So, if the Chinese now offered it with local production and deeper collaborative support (to rework it as a SAM, upgrade later, etc) then you go for it.

However, the key here is that Pakistan doesn't fall into the trap of perpetual dependence on the Chinese. They need to absorb the DPMR technology and build upon it with indigenous inputs. I hope the FAAZ-2 is the outcome of that initiative, though it might be too soon to expect that right now, unless the SD-10 ToT was bought like in 2015.

Overall, manufacturing a workhorse AAM series and SAM series (e.g., DK-10, which is based on SD-10) is a prudent decision. You don't have to buy a large number of missiles upfront and be locked to a single variant, but acquire gradually and iterate improvements with each new batch. You can also replenish stocks after a conflict and, albeit to a lesser degree, during one if you can up production rates in wartime.

As far as I know, this is more a reverse-engineering attempt and less a ToT. So It's anybody's guess what's inside the actual missile (seeker, motor, whatever). I see it as a good learning opportunity for our people if the program is allowed to continue and not canned because the first version didn't outperform SD-10A.

 

[Dazzler]

Your brain has gone to dogs has well.


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Not quite I'm afraid