PAF pilots in combat with IDF/AF

[khanasifm]

What is with Pakistan and glorying lost wars? The fact remains Israel kicked the @ss of all Arab and supporting countries including Pakistan real bad in just six days. It's like after losing the match stating, our players really played the 34th over very nicely although you lost the match by 200 runs.

Admin please take the off the topic comments no need for indo-pak bull()$$ to star here

 

[The Accountant]

We should really stop this defenders and contractors of Islam policy.
Like every other nation we should protect our interests but religion should not be a motive.

Can you please define our nationality if not Islam ? You blind western followers donot understand the fact that without islam people will tend to associate themselves with sindh, punjab, pathan, balooch ...

If religion is not our identity then what was the reason of creation if pakistan ...

You kids have really forgot what is pakistan and what was the purpose ... really lost ... i feel sorry for people like you ...

 

[SecularNationalist]

Can you please define our nationality if not Islam ? You blind western followers donot understand the fact that without islam people will tend to associate themselves with sindh, punjab, pathan, balooch ...

If religion is not our identity then what was the reason of creation if pakistan ...

You kids have really forgot what is pakistan and what was the purpose ... really lost ... i feel sorry for people like you ...

You are just another product of distorted history.People like you don,t bother themselves to dig the history and try to learn the real facts.Pakistan was made for Muslims but constitution was secular which separated religion and the state.MA Jinnah speeches and quotes are a living proof of that even though his 11th august speech was destroyed by people like you to make their filthy agendas fulfilled .Later people with your backward mindset came and insulted the secular ideology of MA Jinnah. Our nationalities are our identity not a religion.Look at the progressing countries they are all secular where social justice,equality and economic development prevails unlike our Pakistan where we religion is being promoted at the cost of social justice,equality and economic development.Just like Turkish and Malaysian people or any other secular country associate itself to the country name we are definitely Pakistanis first regardless of any official religion.
Religion is just a matter of someones personal belief it,s not upon you or the government to dictate me my religion.To what extent i follow my religion or not follow it at all is only my business.MA jinnah was a great visionary and he knew that.He fought for pakistan for muslims who were at a serious disadvantage in united india where hindus were majority.Our religious freedom was at stake.But his purpose of creating pakistan was not to make it islamic by constitution where religion is imposed on people and minorities will become second class citizens.The type of pakistan we see today.Promoting a religion was definitely not his motive and it should not be in this modern society.Westerners restricted the pedophile,illiterate fathers in their churches and they progressed ,we brought mullahs out of mosques and we are suffering.Despite adopting the defenders of islam policy trust me we did not earn any respect in the muslim world.Look at those arabs and how they treat us.
I would like to post some quotes of MA jinnah.

This nation still has hope if it succeeds in reverting to Jinnah’s Will :

1 : “….Religion should not be allowed to come into Politics….Religion is merely a matter between man and God”. [Jinnah, Address to the Central Legislative Assembly, 7 February 1935]

2 : “….in the name of Humanity, I care more for them [the Untouchables] than for Mussalmans. ” [Jinnah, Speaking about the Shudras or Untouchables, during his address at the All India Muslim League session at Delhi, 1934 ]

3 : “….I am NOT fighting for Muslims, believe me, when I demand Pakistan.” [Jinnah, Press Conference, 14 November 1946]

4 : “…. You are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any otherplace of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed.That has nothing to do with the business of the State.” [Jinnah, Presidential address to the first Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, Karachi, 11 August 1947]

5 : “….no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and Equal citizens of One State.” [ Jinnah, Presidential Address to the first Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, 11 August 1947]

6 : “…. Now, I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal, and you will find that in due course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense because that is the personal faith of the individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State “. [Jinnah, Presidential Address to the first Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, 11 August 1947]

7 : ” But make no mistake : Pakistan is NOT a theocracy or anything like it.” [ Jinnah, Message to the people of Australia, 19 February 1948 ]

Whenever Jinnah uses the terms “Islam” and “Islamic” with reference to Pakistan, they are by no means in the sense of a Shariah State. Instead of focusing on the apparent tenor, which more often than not remains subject to diverse interpretations, debate and dispute, Jinnah very wisely remains focused on the SPIRIT of Islamic teachings, which in essence is also the spirit of every single known revealed religion. Thus he succeeds in upholding the secular cause without sacrificing the elements of morality and universal appeal. This spirit, according to him comprises of three elements – Equality, Justice and Fairplay. Any state capable of providing these three to ALL its citizens, would be, for all practical purposes “Islamic” in nature. The following two references are worthy of consideration :


8 : ” The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly…..Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught Equality of men, Justice and Fairplay to ‘EVERYBODY’…..In any case Pakistan is NOT going to be a theocratic State – to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims – Hindus, Christians and Parsis – but they are ALL Pakistanis. They will enjoy the SAME rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.” [ Jinnah, February 1948.Talk on Pakistan broadcast to the people of USA]

9 : ” Why this feeling of nervousness that the future constitution of Pakistan is going to be in conflict with Shariat Laws ?……Islamic principles today are are as much applicable as they were 1300 years ago……Islam and its idealism have taught Equality, Justice and Fairplay to EVERYBODY.” [ Jinnah, 25 January 1948. Address to Bar Association Karachi ]

Jinnah’s Secularism is obviously evident from his use of the term “EVERYBODY”. Even if he did not use the term “Secular” as overtly and frequently as one would have wished him to, his message is most patently one of “SECULARISM”.
Well to be honest i actually feel sorry for people like you who forgot the teachings of their father of the nation.And please don't quote me again as stupid people like you don,t deserve my attention.

 

[Zarvan]

You are just another product of distorted history.People like you don,t bother themselves to dig the history and try to learn the real facts.Pakistan was made for Muslims but constitution was secular which separated religion and the state.MA Jinnah speeches and quotes are a living proof of that even though his 11th august speech was destroyed by people like you to make their filthy agendas fulfilled .Later people with your backward mindset came and insulted the secular ideology of MA Jinnah. Our nationalities are our identity not a religion.Look at the progressing countries they are all secular where social justice,equality and economic development prevails unlike our Pakistan where we religion is being promoted at the cost of social justice,equality and economic development.Just like Turkish and Malaysian people or any other secular country associate itself to the country name we are definitely Pakistanis first regardless of any official religion.
Religion is just a matter of someones personal belief it,s not upon you or the government to dictate me my religion.To what extent i follow my religion or not follow it at all is only my business.MA jinnah was a great visionary and he knew that.He fought for pakistan for muslims who were at a serious disadvantage in united india where hindus were majority.Our religious freedom was at stake.But his purpose of creating pakistan was not to make it islamic by constitution where religion is imposed on people and minorities will become second class citizens.The type of pakistan we see today.Promoting a religion was definitely not his motive and it should not be in this modern society.Westerners restricted the pedophile,illiterate fathers in their churches and they progressed ,we brought mullahs out of mosques and we are suffering.Despite adopting the defenders of islam policy trust me we did not earn any respect in the muslim world.Look at those arabs and how they treat us.
I would like to post some quotes of MA jinnah.

This nation still has hope if it succeeds in reverting to Jinnah’s Will :

1 : “….Religion should not be allowed to come into Politics….Religion is merely a matter between man and God”. [Jinnah, Address to the Central Legislative Assembly, 7 February 1935]

2 : “….in the name of Humanity, I care more for them [the Untouchables] than for Mussalmans. ” [Jinnah, Speaking about the Shudras or Untouchables, during his address at the All India Muslim League session at Delhi, 1934 ]

3 : “….I am NOT fighting for Muslims, believe me, when I demand Pakistan.” [Jinnah, Press Conference, 14 November 1946]

4 : “…. You are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any otherplace of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed.That has nothing to do with the business of the State.” [Jinnah, Presidential address to the first Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, Karachi, 11 August 1947]

5 : “….no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and Equal citizens of One State.” [ Jinnah, Presidential Address to the first Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, 11 August 1947]

6 : “…. Now, I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal, and you will find that in due course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense because that is the personal faith of the individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State “. [Jinnah, Presidential Address to the first Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, 11 August 1947]

7 : ” But make no mistake : Pakistan is NOT a theocracy or anything like it.” [ Jinnah, Message to the people of Australia, 19 February 1948 ]

Whenever Jinnah uses the terms “Islam” and “Islamic” with reference to Pakistan, they are by no means in the sense of a Shariah State. Instead of focusing on the apparent tenor, which more often than not remains subject to diverse interpretations, debate and dispute, Jinnah very wisely remains focused on the SPIRIT of Islamic teachings, which in essence is also the spirit of every single known revealed religion. Thus he succeeds in upholding the secular cause without sacrificing the elements of morality and universal appeal. This spirit, according to him comprises of three elements – Equality, Justice and Fairplay. Any state capable of providing these three to ALL its citizens, would be, for all practical purposes “Islamic” in nature. The following two references are worthy of consideration :


8 : ” The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly…..Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught Equality of men, Justice and Fairplay to ‘EVERYBODY’…..In any case Pakistan is NOT going to be a theocratic State – to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims – Hindus, Christians and Parsis – but they are ALL Pakistanis. They will enjoy the SAME rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.” [ Jinnah, February 1948.Talk on Pakistan broadcast to the people of USA]

9 : ” Why this feeling of nervousness that the future constitution of Pakistan is going to be in conflict with Shariat Laws ?……Islamic principles today are are as much applicable as they were 1300 years ago……Islam and its idealism have taught Equality, Justice and Fairplay to EVERYBODY.” [ Jinnah, 25 January 1948. Address to Bar Association Karachi ]

Jinnah’s Secularism is obviously evident from his use of the term “EVERYBODY”. Even if he did not use the term “Secular” as overtly and frequently as one would have wished him to, his message is most patently one of “SECULARISM”.
Well to be honest i actually feel sorry for people like you who forgot the teachings of their father of the nation.And please don't quote me again as stupid people like you don,t deserve my attention.

@SecularNationalist It's seculars who have always lied about Jinah. Jinah never wanted a secular Pakistan. He wanted a Pakistan where laws of Islam can be implemented and experimented with.

Now for topic PAF has fought with Israel in the past and we did great job but sooner or later it would happen again. It would be Israel and India on one side and we and other countries on the other side.

 

[saba shahid]

Use Google once a while instead of relying on your textbooks

There are tons of threads on this very forum about '65 war, many of Pak Army Veterans and commentators and neutral sources has accepted Pakistan's defeat. Let's not derail the thread here though. If PAF pilots were 'Superior' then what were Israeli pilots, who grounded an air-force thrice their size in 6 hours, what should we call them? Super-Superiors or Faney Khans?

OMG this guy....Dude

Hi.

You don't have one identity being a muslim---. It means you have one ' faith'.

Maybe in death we become of one language---but in life we all have our ethnic identities---.

Ethnic languages and identities are a fact and a reality like the day light or the dark of the night---.

If you want to dig deeper---then you need to look at the battle fields of old wars--how the armies were setup to fight with their ethnic and linguistic backgrounds----yes the muslim armies---. Even though this was and is no secret in any other army---all armies were grouped up on their basis of ethnicity or language---.

Just like we have punjab reg---baluch reg---frontier force---sindh reg---similarly---in the past---troops comprised of their ethnic groups even under the flag of islam---.

Why do the pakistanis have an itch to be one nation---because they don't have a real historical IDENTITY of being a nation---they are looking at every other nook and cranny for identity---.

A 70 years old nation---compare to thousand years old history of other muslim nations---.

You want to give them away because you got nothing of your own yet.

Young lady---like every other pakistani---you are wasting your time and energy on something that is futile---has proven futile and will prove futile---but because you are a pakistani---you would die fighting this futility---rather than accept that your line of thought was not in sync with the reality on the ground---.

And why would you do that---because you do not have the ability to think---you have not been given the ability to think---. Good luck.

You dont know anything about Islam and this is very sad Islam taught us that this life is nothing surrender yourself to the will of God. There is a reason we all stand and pray together at a mosque and there is a also a reason we are all put in the same graveyard. You brother need to open your eyes stop giving example about Pakistan, our identity is muslim and we follow Islam please educate yourself and think what you are talking about.

 

[SQ8]

OMG this guy....Dude

You dont know anything about Islam and this is very sad Islam taught us that this life is nothing surrender yourself to the will of God. There is a reason we all stand and pray together at a mosque and there is a also a reason we are all put in the same graveyard. You brother need to open your eyes stop giving example about Pakistan, our identity is muslim and we follow Islam please educate yourself and think what you are talking about.

You haven't bought a single proof and are essentially ranting and derailing this thread. Please post your repitition elsewhere

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Hi.

You don't have one identity being a muslim---. It means you have one ' faith'.

Maybe in death we become of one language---but in life we all have our ethnic identities---.

Ethnic languages and identities are a fact and a reality like the day light or the dark of the night---.

If you want to dig deeper---then you need to look at the battle fields of old wars--how the armies were setup to fight with their ethnic and linguistic backgrounds----yes the muslim armies---. Even though this was and is no secret in any other army---all armies were grouped up on their basis of ethnicity or language---.

Just like we have punjab reg---baluch reg---frontier force---sindh reg---similarly---in the past---troops comprised of their ethnic groups even under the flag of islam---.

Why do the pakistanis have an itch to be one nation---because they don't have a real historical IDENTITY of being a nation---they are looking at every other nook and cranny for identity---.

A 70 years old nation---compare to thousand years old history of other muslim nations---.

You want to give them away because you got nothing of your own yet.

Young lady---like every other pakistani---you are wasting your time and energy on something that is futile---has proven futile and will prove futile---but because you are a pakistani---you would die fighting this futility---rather than accept that your line of thought was not in sync with the reality on the ground---.

And why would you do that---because you do not have the ability to think---you have not been given the ability to think---. Good luck.

Teaching Thinking - Edward Bono

I am sure you have read it. Tried with my offspring.. tough this...thinking business, let alone Critical Thinking.

It can be exhausting, but you keep at it old man, you keep at!

Where ever one can chip in, just call out. Would be standing next to ya.

Over and out - for now.

 

[Zarvan]

I am 100% sure MA Jinnah did not say all those quotes you mentioned above.Those are distorted made up quotes.It,s always the vehshi and jahil mullah brigade like you who try to distort facts.
For the past 70 years you are desperately trying to change the ideology of MA jinnah because his true secular ideology won,t let you exploit people in the name of religion,wont let you get funds in madrassas which are later use in terrorist activities. His ideology confines useless people like you in their madrassas but oh wait you want to rule in parliament.

He said all those quotes. All of these speeches were recorded in written and some also in audio and television form. Jinah said this over and over again and Jinah gave two nation theory only a fool can that a leader who gave two nation theory could want a secular Pakistan. I and others like me are not trying anything it's seculars and liberals who are traitors and have been lying about Jinah over and over again. Jinah never wanted a secular Pakistan, all his speeches from 1940 till his death makes it clear. He over and over emphasized make Pakistan so Islamic laws and principals can be implemented.

Now stick to topic. This can be discussed in some other thread @SecularNationalist

 

[MastanKhan]

You dont know anything about Islam and this is very sad Islam taught us that this life is nothing surrender yourself to the will of God. There is a reason we all stand and pray together at a mosque and there is a also a reason we are all put in the same graveyard. You brother need to open your eyes stop giving example about Pakistan, our identity is muslim and we follow Islam please educate yourself and think what you are talking about.

Hi,

My child---have you been to a christian graveyard---. Have you been to a christian prayer in a church---.

I am 100% sure MA Jinnah did not say all those quotes you mentioned above.Those are distorted made up quotes.It,s always the vehshi and jahil mullah brigade like you who try to distort facts.
For the past 70 years you are desperately trying to change the ideology of MA jinnah because his true secular ideology won,t let you exploit people in the name of religion,wont let you get funds in madrassas which are later use in terrorist activities. His ideology confines useless people like you in their madrassas but oh wait you want to rule in parliament.


Mohtarma @MastanKhan is a old reputable member and you are some girl in her early twenties who joined PDF one month ago.Try to argue like him with facts and logic not like repeating your rhetoric again and again.
If you think your identity is muslim then go to any muslim majority nation and you will see how they will treat their fellow muslim from pakistan.See how arabs treat us.This muslim identity non sense only prevails in pakistan.Only two countries are made in the name of religion Israeli and pakistan and see israel is secular by constitution. They are just protecting the interests of jewish people unlike us who are imposing religion on everyone and protecting interests of no one.We pakistanis can be jews,muslims,christians or atheists that does not matter but first we are pakistanis and pakistan is our identity not some religion.That,s what MA Jinnah believed in.
It,s sad there are millions of young boys and girls in pakistan who are still under the influence of Zia -ul-haq.That,s why i hate zia with passion he literally changed the foundation of this nation.But i believe still there is some hope left.

Hi,

Thank you---whatsoever happens---I will forever be a muslim pakistani---and there is no denial to that

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Hi,

My child---have you been to a christian graveyard---. Have you been to a christian prayer in a church---.



Hi,

Thank you---whatsoever happens---I will forever be a pakistani---and there is no denial to that

Ah, my very dear MK,

So, you came of the closet after all!


This is my 2000th post and it is dedicated to you, old man... mad, barking mad as you are... you are a True Son of Indus and for that you are held in heart!

Now then... what are going to do about? Since you have come out and now all of us know your True Colours....you love Pak dearly. Oh, this sickness nobody can cure.



Just pulling your leg...

You have a great time, old man!


SPF

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Ah, my very dear MK,

So, you came of the closet after all!


This is my 2000th post and it is dedicated to you, old man... mad, barking mad as you are... you are a True Son of Indus and for that you are held in heart!

Now then... what are going to do about? Since you have come out and now all of us know your True Colours....you love Pak dearly. Oh, this sickness nobody can cure.



Just pulling your leg...

You have a great time, old man!


SPF

hey you have posted 2000 comments then why are you still Captain?? You should have been promoted to Major rank

 

[MastanKhan]

Ah, my very dear MK,

So, you came of the closet after all!


This is my 2000th post and it is dedicated to you, old man... mad, barking mad as you are... you are a True Son of Indus and for that you are held in heart!

Now then... what are going to do about? Since you have come out and now all of us know your True Colours....you love Pak dearly. Oh, this sickness nobody can cure.



Just pulling your leg...

You have a great time, old man!


SPF

Hi,

For a few years I went to catholic schools in pakistan---.

I was in the U S spending christmas with one of my friends and he took me to he service at the church---.

They were reciting bible and I was reciting the verses from qura'an---.

Then on a couple of occasions I have been to the funeral services in the church for a couple of friends---.

Christian graveyards---I pass by them daily for years. Many a pakistanis make a such a big deal out of these things that are a non issue---.

 

[SecularNationalist]

Hi,

For a few years I went to catholic schools in pakistan---.

I was in the U S spending christmas with one of my friends and he took me to he service at the church---.

They were reciting bible and I was reciting the verses from qura'an---.

Then on a couple of occasions I have been to the funeral services in the church for a couple of friends---.

Christian graveyards---I pass by them daily for years. Many a pakistanis make a such a big deal out of these things that are a non issue---.

Most pakistanis did not get exposure and that,s why they are so narrow minded.They think all outsiders as enemies of islam.
I also lived abroad and i just see people not their religions.