PAF pilots in combat with IDF/AF

[The Accountant]

I am probably twice as old as you f not more, who has probably closer interaction with arabs and arab history
then you probably would.

Sir it is not about arabs ... it never was it never will ... it is about our own grave ... are we muslims ? Then we have to do the right thing and thats what we did ... unfortunately our belief system is so corrupt now that we cannot differentiate between right n wrong ...

I am proud to be son of a nation who had brave warriors but still humble humans ... i wish we could get our soul back which seems to has lost

 

[MastanKhan]

Dear that was all a reaction of what we have been doing.

If we had relationships based on peaceful coexistence it would have been easier and Israel may not
have been compelled to help our enemy.

Hi,

It has purely been the stupidity and ego of the paf to get involved in the israeli mid east conflict at all---.

This thread is as senseless as it can be---. To bring out 40 years old cases on engagement and building castles on them is just a wishful thinking---.

I have been wanting to ask the moderators to shut this thread down.

@HRK @Horus @Manticore @TaimiKhan gentlemen---please close this thread---.

This is as useless a thread that it can be---if we cannot make friends---then we don't need to bring out old animosities---purely purely thoughtless---.

 

[khanasifm]

On 23 October 1973, PAF pilot Flt. Lt. M. Hatif on deputation to Egyptian Air Force (EAF) was flying a EAF MiG-21 in a defensive combat air patrol (CAP) over Egypt when he was vectored towards an intruding Israeli Air Force (IDF/AF) F-4 Phantom. In the ensuing dogfight, Flt. Lt. M. Hatif shot down the Israeli Phantom.

The Aerial fight over Golan
On 26 April 1974, PAF fighter pilot Flight Lieutenant Sattar Alvi on deputation to No. 67A Squadron, Syrian Air Force (SAF) was flying a SAF MiG-21F-13 (Serial No. 1863) out of Dumayr Air Base, Syria in an eight-ship formation with a fellow PAF pilot and the Flight Leader, Squadron Leader Arif Manzoor.[4]

Alvi came to a worldwide international notice when he had shot down the IAF's Mirage IIICJ flown by Captain M. Lutz. On 26 April 1974, while on an aerial patrol, the PAF fighter pilots team including, Flight Lieutenant Captain Sattar Alvi, Squadron Leader Major Saleem Metla and the formation's leader Squadron Leader Major Arif Manzoor. The Shahbaz faced an encounter over Golan Heights between a Mig-21 of the Syrian Air Force and two Israeli Mirages.[5]

While leading a Mig-21 patrol along the border, Squadron Leader Arif Manzoor apprised of the presence of two Israeli Phantom aircraft and was cautioned that these could be decoys while two other fast tracks approaching from the opposite direction might be the real threat. The latter turned out to be Mirages and a moment later Alvi, in Arif's formation saw the No 2 Mirage breaking towards him.[6] All this time, heavy radio jamming by Israeli ground stations was making things difficult but the Pakistani pilots were used to such tactics. Sattar forced the Israeli pair into close combat, firing his K-13 missile at the first opportunity. The Israeli wingman's Mirage exploded into a ball of fire, while the leader quickly disengaged.

Honours
After the engagements, Flight Lieutenant Captain Sattar Alvi and Shahbaz formation leader Squadron Leader Major Arif Manzoor were awarded two of Syria's highest decorations for gallantry, the Wisaam Faris and Wisaam Shuja'at in 1973 by the President of Syria Hafez al-Assad in a public ceremony. The government of Pakistan also awarded the PAF fight pilot Sitara-e-Jur'at each. The prime minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto personally met each of them and awarded the gallantry awards in a public ceremonies.

A/C Sattar Alvi, shows off the Capt M Lutz - IAF Mirage IIICJ Pilot's coveralls, whom the former PAF pilot shot down in combat.

View attachment 402185

The phantom and fly hatif is news to me paf history via book with major events in history painting did not reveal it either where is this coming from
?

 

[Windjammer]

The phantom and fly hatif is news to me paf history via book with major events in history painting did not reveal it either where is this coming from
?

Several sources have reported it.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/08/01/229723.html

http://www.naseeb.com/journals/paf-vs-iaf-186098

https://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?129632-PAF-Pilots-Who-Shot-Down-Ten-(10)-Israeli-Jets

 

[YeBeWarned]

Hi,

It has purely been the stupidity and ego of the paf to get involved in the israeli mid east conflict at all---.

This thread is as senseless as it can be---. To bring out 40 years old cases on engagement and building castles on them is just a wishful thinking---.

I have been wanting to ask the moderators to shut this thread down.

@HRK @Horus @Manticore @TaimiKhan gentlemen---please close this thread---.

This is as useless a thread that it can be---if we cannot make friends---then we don't need to bring out old animosities---purely purely thoughtless---.

as far as i know PAF did not officially involved in the WAR , these were volunteer pilots who went to fight, and there is no rule to stop them ..

 

[Sinnerman108]

Sir it is not about arabs ... it never was it never will ... it is about our own grave ... are we muslims ? Then we have to do the right thing and thats what we did ... unfortunately our belief system is so corrupt now that we cannot differentiate between right n wrong ...

I am proud to be son of a nation who had brave warriors but still humble humans ... i wish we could get our soul back which seems to has lost

Good,

Where in the Religion does it say that Muslims must possess the Aqsa ?

Tell me how much time have you spent going through Palestenian history before forming your opinion ?

 

[The Accountant]

Good,

Where in the Religion does it say that Muslims must possess the Aqsa ?

Tell me how much time have you spent going through Palestenian history before forming your opinion ?

Much more time then you ... ok lets go with the modern standards ... where does the modern standards says that you push native population of the country out based on 2000 years old claim ?

By modern standards what rights britishers had for balfort declaration ... they were occupiers and yet they decided to create a land for jews in palestine ... and here you are supporting israel ...

And i humbly request you to read Islamic religion and auhentic hadith of the future told ... you are also requested to read the jewish text by the virtue of which they choose to create a state at Palestine and not at any other piece of land ... yet if you want to believe that creation of israel was full and final aggression then you can live in your lala land meanwhile Iraq and Syria are being destroyed by Israel supported ISIS to which Israel openly admitted to support atleast in medical aid ...

 

[Imran Khan]

shameful part of our history when we rent our forces for gains

 

[krash]

shameful part of our history when we rent our forces for gains

And what rent or gains did they achieve from this? Pray do enlighten us.

 

[Counterpunch]

I agreed totally it was useless means of creating more enemies than allies that episode lead Israel to become cozy friend with India ,I seriously think the options we exercise during 60/70/80

Yes really..they would have been sending flowers to us every Yom-e-takbeer had we not fought against them..they would definitely have chosen us over India as an all weather friend

What we did was principally the correct decision. We are not (at least were not supposed to be) a libtard state with no moral or ethics to not stand for what is just. Then we had the means and the will. We did the same during Russian invasion. Went out and took the monster head on. The later confused policies destroyed the gains though, but there was nothing wrong to what we did in 60/70/80 as you mentioned

 

[volatile]

Yes really..they would have been sending flowers to us every Yom-e-takbeer had we not fought against them..they would definitely have chosen us over India as an all weather friend

At that time Pak was blue eyed child for US and this was not happening ,we extended our support to Arabs just because we were in dictatorship ,and dictators will do what ever to gain support .

What we did was principally the correct decision. We are not (at least were not supposed to be) a libtard state with no moral or ethics to not stand for what is just. Then we had the means and the will. We did the same during Russian invasion. Went out and took the monster head on. The later confused policies destroyed the gains though, but there was nothing wrong to what we did in 60/70/80 as you mentioned

Im sorry world doesn't work in principles ,If it was Kashmir was liberated infact due to our fingering in matters we make fool out of ourselves .Tell me what we have gained after joining the Arab coalition . ?

 

[AbuzarIlyas]

Some people get very emotional when we talk about the "phenti"delivered to Israelis. The strategic partnership was disclosed by Allama Shah Ahmad Norani in parliament of Pakistan in 1974.

This mentality will die gradually where people close their eyes about the atrocities committed by non-Muslims against the unarmed Muslims and starts chest thumping whenever Muslim armies take actions as reciprocation.

This is the sign of slavery rather than secularism.

 

[Readerdefence]

Hi

Some people get very emotional when we talk about the "phenti"delivered to Israelis. The strategic partnership was disclosed by Allama Shah Ahmad Norani in parliament of Pakistan in 1974.

This mentality will die gradually where people close their eyes about the atrocities committed by non-Muslims against the unarmed Muslims and starts chest thumping whenever Muslim armies take actions as reciprocation.

This is the sign of slavery rather than secularism.

hi hope you take these comments not personally can you please elaborate why we muslims im talking about Pakistani talk about phenti although sometime that phenti turn over to some disastrous happening on the contrary are we the only Muslim country to fight with Israel now at this point I'm not saying if Israel attack you sit back and relax what about the powerful Arab neighbours of Israel and surrounding countries with all their latest gadgets and super budgets for war machines they make piece and have diplomatic relations
Again I'm not saying have a diplomatic relations but why you want to finger somebody whom you are not in direct touch with don't make him friend but try to be at par and wait for the right time
Whatever it will be already been surrounded by so many problems diplomatically and proxy wise also
Thx

 

[Sinnerman108]

Much more time then you ... ok lets go with the modern standards ... where does the modern standards says that you push native population of the country out based on 2000 years old claim ?

By modern standards what rights britishers had for balfort declaration ... they were occupiers and yet they decided to create a land for jews in palestine ... and here you are supporting israel ...

And i humbly request you to read Islamic religion and auhentic hadith of the future told ... you are also requested to read the jewish text by the virtue of which they choose to create a state at Palestine and not at any other piece of land ... yet if you want to believe that creation of israel was full and final aggression then you can live in your lala land meanwhile Iraq and Syria are being destroyed by Israel supported ISIS to which Israel openly admitted to support atleast in medical aid ...

In the interest of those who will read this afterwards and of no inclination of engaging in a debate with you.

The land of the Jews was handed to them by God,
The Quran is clear about it.
The Qibla WAS aqsa, and then it was changed to Kaaba.
The Quran is clear that God wanted to test how people DISASSOCIATE from Aqsa and adopt kaaba.

Thereby the definition of Haram al Sharif is Kaaba.

There is no grades of most respect, and second most respected and third most respected sites in Quran.
Only Haram al Sharif.

Now, take a good look at my profile,
do not quote me again.

 

[AbuzarIlyas]

Hi

hi hope you take these comments not personally can you please elaborate why we muslims im talking about Pakistani talk about phenti although sometime that phenti turn over to some disastrous happening on the contrary are we the only Muslim country to fight with Israel now at this point I'm not saying if Israel attack you sit back and relax what about the powerful Arab neighbours of Israel and surrounding countries with all their latest gadgets and super budgets for war machines they make piece and have diplomatic relations
Again I'm not saying have a diplomatic relations but why you want to finger somebody whom you are not in direct touch with don't make him friend but try to be at par and wait for the right time
Whatever it will be already been surrounded by so many problems diplomatically and proxy wise also
Thx

I never like long arguments and debates. But i should must highlight some statements from founding fathers of Israel that Pakistan was created on ideological basis thus, a threat towards israel's existence.
Moreover, Quaid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (r.a) never replied any memorandum by Israel's authorities. I must follow the policies of Quaid about Israel and independence of Kashmir. Everyone has its own right of expression and point of view and this is mine here.