PAF participates in "Red Flag" and "Green Flag"

[Manticore]

more f16b s = more [twice] pilots gaining first hand experience in red flag

 

[Chogy]

more f16b s = more [twice] pilots gaining first hand experience in red flag

That was my first thought, flying the "Tubs" (2-seat) allows for a greater experience overall.

The only problem is that for those used to flying alone, which is standard for F-16, F-15, F-18, having a guy in back shrieking "THERE! THERE! 7 O'CLOCK LOW, two ship, break! No wait... Pitch left, don't do that, NO, come back right! What are you doing!!" (for example) is unbelievably irritating, and having that guy-in-back input to the fight can actually be worse than having nobody there at all.

Sometimes, it is best to tell the guy in back "This is my sortie. Don't say anything unless we are about to get gunned, or crash. Thank you."

 

[mjnaushad]

That was my first thought, flying the "Tubs" (2-seat) allows for a greater experience overall.

The only problem is that for those used to flying alone, which is standard for F-16, F-15, F-18, having a guy in back shrieking "THERE! THERE! 7 O'CLOCK LOW, two ship, break! No wait... Pitch left, don't do that, NO, come back right! What are you doing!!" (for example) is unbelievably irritating, and having that guy-in-back input to the fight can actually be worse than having nobody there at all.

Sometimes, it is best to tell the guy in back "This is my sortie. Don't say anything unless we are about to get gunned, or crash. Thank you."

Hahahahaha

 

[blain2]

This thread is a STICKY now. To all of the Indian members (and Pakistani too), please keep India out of this discussion. Just stick to the PAF, articles, photos, videos etc. pertaining to the event. PAF is not at RF so we can stick our thumbs at anyone. They are there to learn to inter-operate and enhance their own training, tactics etc.

Thank you!

I am not sure if these have been posted or not, but for consolidation sake around the RF topic, let me do so here:

PAF F-16s en-route to Red Flag being provided fuel via IFR by USAF Tankers:
http://www.statesman.com.pk/pictures/IMG_1552%20AAR Red Flag.jpg
http://www.statesman.com.pk/pictures/APP38-17AtlanticOcean.jpg
http://www.statesman.com.pk/pictures/APP37-17AtlanticOcean.jpg
http://www.statesman.com.pk/pictures/100717-32.jpg


PAF pilots at Nellis:
http://www.nellis.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/100716-F-0528C-002.jpg

Airmen/Ground crew @ Nellis:
http://www.nellis.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/100716-F-0528C-032.jpg
http://www.nellis.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/100716-F-0528C-034.jpg
http://www.nellis.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/100716-F-0528C-038.jpg

 

[blain2]

That was my first thought, flying the "Tubs" (2-seat) allows for a greater experience overall.

The only problem is that for those used to flying alone, which is standard for F-16, F-15, F-18, having a guy in back shrieking "THERE! THERE! 7 O'CLOCK LOW, two ship, break! No wait... Pitch left, don't do that, NO, come back right! What are you doing!!" (for example) is unbelievably irritating, and having that guy-in-back input to the fight can actually be worse than having nobody there at all.

Sometimes, it is best to tell the guy in back "This is my sortie. Don't say anything unless we are about to get gunned, or crash. Thank you."

Choggy,

No option to eject the GIBS only?

I am joking but not without inspiration as in here. See around 4:10.

 

[Manticore]

PAF pilots at Nellis:
http://www.nellis.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/100716-F-0528C-002.jpg

sir , would you be able to provide names etc -- thanking you

i can name some of them , generally they look quite experienced bunch --

 

[blain2]

A quick look shows GC Javad Saeed right in the middle (and the right person to be at RF with the other pilots). He was the point man for our very first deployments at Anatolian Eagle as well. Others can chime in with other names.

It seems this is a long trip for the Griffins. After RF, they will participate in Green Flag which, in light of the close air support operations being undertaken by the PAF, would come in very handy.


---------- Post added at 11:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 AM ----------

[/COLOR]Pakistan Air Force arrives at Nellis for first Red Flag

Posted 7/17/2010 Updated 7/17/2010 Email story Print story

by Lawrence Crespo
Nellis Public Affairs

7/17/2010 - NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. -- Members of the Pakistan Air Force arrived at Nellis Air Force Base July 16 to participate in Red Flag 10-4. The U.S. Air Force is hosting approximately 100 Pakistan Air Force pilots, maintainers and support personnel at the world's premier large force employment and integration exercise July 17-31. This is the Pakistan Air Force's first time participating in Red Flag. Also participating will be fighter pilots and support personnel from the U.S. Air Force, U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps, Royal Saudi Air Force, and the Republic of Singapore Air Force.

The Pakistan Air Force will also participate in Green Flag 10-9 at Nellis Air Force Base, scheduled for Aug. 6-20. Pakistan Air Force participation in these premier international exercises builds international air force cooperation, interoperability, and mutual support. It is also significant as both a tangible and symbolic demonstration of the deepening U.S.-Pakistan strategic relationship.

 

[Manticore]

Air Warrior transforms into new Green Flag

NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. (AFPN) -- With the ever-changing fight in the war on terrorism, thus goes the Air Force with the incarnation, or re-incarnation, of Green Flag.

The Air Warrior exercises here and at Barksdale Air Force Base, La., have officially become the Air Force's premier pre-deployment exercises for Air Combat Command flying units who perform close-air support and precision-guided munitions delivery. They are now known as Green Flag West (Nellis) and Green Flag East (Barksdale).

"The mission changed to emphasize the unique aspects of Operations Enduring and Iraqi Freedom, where the Army and Air Force missions are closely related in air-to-ground combat," said Lt. Col. Phil Barks, 549th Combat Training Squadron commander at Nellis.

The Air Force previously had a Green Flag, which focused on electronic warfare, but it was later integrated into Red Flag. The new Green Flag is geared toward the current ground fight and the Air Force partnership with ground forces.

"In the past, Air Warrior has focused mostly on traditional close-air-support missions. But, with the current situation on the ground, our Airmen are being called upon to provide support across a broad range of missions in an irregular warfare environment," Colonel Barks said.

As the Green Flag West host, the 549th CTS' mission is to provide air support to ground forces deployed to the National Training Center at Fort Irwin, Calif. The squadron's counterpart, the 548th CTS at Barksdale AFB, provides the same support for the Joint Readiness Training Center at Fort Polk, La. NTC and JRTC have been the Army's mission rehearsal exercises for several years.

The Air Force is using the Green Flags to provide concurrent training to Airmen and prepare them for the types of missions and units they will support during war.

"Our objective is to take the lessons learned over the past five years of conflict and provide the warfighter with the tools and training needed to better fight the war on terror," said Col. Thomas Webster, Joint Air to Ground Operations Group commander.

Both Green Flag West and Green Flag East fall under the JAGOG, 57th Wing at Nellis. There are three substantial changes that transform Air Warrior into Green Flag, Colonel Barks said.

"First, we will change the scope of the exercise," Colonel Barks said. "So deploying forces will have an easier transition into the war. We will emphasize the unique aspects of the fight and special preparation for deployment, frequently working with the Army units which will deploy during the same timeframe."

Secondly, he said that the mission will change from training aircrews on traditional close-air support to an exercise that stresses integration with Army maneuver units across a broad spectrum of activity, with special emphasis on counterinsurgency and irregular warfare.

Finally, the squadrons must change the scheduling process to accommodate units already identified to deploy. No small task, so a new squadron is stepping in to help.

"The goal (of the new squadron) is integration of the (air and space expeditionary force) construct into an actual method to have that force ready to rotate into the current fight and to be prepared for a contingency that we're not expecting but that might happen any day," said Maj. Gen. Stephen M. Goldfein, U.S. Air Force Warfare Center commander.

"I stood up a new squadron (Sept.29), the 561st Joint Tactics Squadron, who will be lining up the new tactics and developing a rotation for units to go," General Goldfein said. "(The squadron will be) tied to our major exercises like Green Flag and Red Flag, all designed to get our units ready to cycle smoothly in and out of the fight, prepared to do what the joint force air component commander needs them to do."

Green Flag West will occur approximately 10 times per year; during each exercise, more than 5,000 Army troops and joint terminal attack controllers practice and hone their skills in the desert near Barstow, Calif. The 549th CTS works in conjunction with the 12th CTS at Fort Irwin.

Along with the Army troops, multiple coalition aircraft aid in the exercise.

Air Warrior transforms into new Green Flag

 

[Chogy]

Choggy,

No option to eject the GIBS only?

I am joking but not without inspiration as in here. See around 4:10.

Haha! Unfortunately the F-16 would lose it's single canopy, subjecting the guy-in-front to some harsh winds. I've often wondered what the F-16 handbook has to say about "Loss of canopy inflight." A normal windscreen (Like F-15) protects the pilot from wind blast. But I think it's worth it (no canopy bow) to get that superb visibility.

To be a proper GIB or WSO requires a lot of training, and partners hone their communications and interaction skills to avoid confusing each other. In theory, any F-14 pilot could fly with any F-14 WSO and do well, but when guys work together, they learn each other's nuances, and you can bet that going into combat, they'd want to pair with the guy they've trained the most with.

Plus, a regular GIB is itching to help, to make a difference, and uncoordinated, bad input is worse than no input. It can cause the jet to "waffle"... look undecided or hesitant, while they sort out what they are saying to each other. And that can be fatal.

I find this PAF visit to Nellis to be really exciting for everyone involved. Not only are they going to take back great training, I am confident they will also take back fantastic memories of a wonderful time. Nellis AFB knows how to host. There is a lot of fighter history there in a world-class facility. And in the grand scheme of things, PAF and USAF cooperation will yield big dividends for both. Fighter tactics are constantly evolving, and I will almost guarantee that the PAF pilots will be able to show something new, some unique way to operate the F-16, that will surprise the opposition.

 

[behram]

A quick look shows GC Javad Saeed right in the middle (and the right person to be at RF with the other pilots). He was the point man for our very first deployments at Anatolian Eagle as well. Others can chime in with other names.

It seems this is a long trip for the Griffins. After RF, they will participate in Green Flag which, in light of the close air support operations being undertaken by the PAF, would come in very handy.


---------- Post added at 11:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 AM ----------

[/COLOR]Pakistan Air Force arrives at Nellis for first Red Flag

Posted 7/17/2010 Updated 7/17/2010 Email story Print story

by Lawrence Crespo
Nellis Public Affairs

7/17/2010 - NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. -- Members of the Pakistan Air Force arrived at Nellis Air Force Base July 16 to participate in Red Flag 10-4. The U.S. Air Force is hosting approximately 100 Pakistan Air Force pilots, maintainers and support personnel at the world's premier large force employment and integration exercise July 17-31. This is the Pakistan Air Force's first time participating in Red Flag. Also participating will be fighter pilots and support personnel from the U.S. Air Force, U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps, Royal Saudi Air Force, and the Republic of Singapore Air Force.

The Pakistan Air Force will also participate in Green Flag 10-9 at Nellis Air Force Base, scheduled for Aug. 6-20. Pakistan Air Force participation in these premier international exercises builds international air force cooperation, interoperability, and mutual support. It is also significant as both a tangible and symbolic demonstration of the deepening U.S.-Pakistan strategic relationship.

It will also be Group Captain Javad Saeed's last time he will be flying, as he's going to be replaced by the new OC Flying, Group Captain Irfan Ahmed. Can't believe though that this guy, Javad, is the same guy in this pic, last on the extreme right of the V.
http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airforce/gallery/images/img016.jpg

 

[haroonn]

It will also be Group Captain Javad Saeed's last time he will be flying, as he's going to be replaced by the new OC Flying, Group Captain Irfan Ahmed.

HHmm... is he OC Flying Mushaf ? If he is the OC Flying now then Haseeb Piracha must be posted somewhere else as he was the OC Flying 38 Wing in 2008-9. I also read somewhere that Javad had some medical related issues and may not be flying again ????? Was this true?

 

[fatman17]

This thread is a STICKY now. To all of the Indian members (and Pakistani too), please keep India out of this discussion. Just stick to the PAF, articles, photos, videos etc. pertaining to the event. PAF is not at RF so we can stick our thumbs at anyone. They are there to learn to inter-operate and enhance their own training, tactics etc.

Thank you!

I am not sure if these have been posted or not, but for consolidation sake around the RF topic, let me do so here:

PAF F-16s en-route to Red Flag being provided fuel via IFR by USAF Tankers:
http://www.statesman.com.pk/pictures/IMG_1552 AAR Red Flag.jpg
http://www.statesman.com.pk/pictures/APP38-17AtlanticOcean.jpg
http://www.statesman.com.pk/pictures/APP37-17AtlanticOcean.jpg
http://www.statesman.com.pk/pictures/100717-32.jpg


PAF pilots at Nellis:
http://www.nellis.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/100716-F-0528C-002.jpg

Airmen/Ground crew @ Nellis:
http://www.nellis.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/100716-F-0528C-032.jpg
http://www.nellis.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/100716-F-0528C-034.jpg
http://www.nellis.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/100716-F-0528C-038.jpg

interesting - all 4 F-16s are the 2-seat B models!

 

[fatman17]

Interdiction

92 FS, RSAF (F-15S)
9 MRS, PAF (F-16B)
425 FS, (Singapore, Luke AFB, Ariz.) (F-16CG)
VMFA-225, MCAS Miramar [F-18]

looks like PAF will be involved in 'interdiction' missions during RF-10-04

 

[aliyusuf]

You are going there with F-16's , even if You have all out friendly fire, US pilot would say , they had awsome precision and an Unmatched Quality as Your F-16, is first of all theirs and Secondly its participating in MMRCA

Next about Indian participation, A US guy criticizing a Russian stuff is Not something new....

So take a chill pill, concentrate on topic Buddy

Actually if you go thru the 2 part video of USAF Col Terence Fornof on Red Flag 2008, available on youtube, you will find that he wasn't being critical of the SU-30MKI or Russian Technology (per se) but giving an analysis from his view point. He fully explained why the fratricide occurred from the Indian side. He was however slightly less than flattering on the way IAF pilots were utilizing the MKI. He even at one point says that the SU-30 would prove to be a handful for the legacy US teen fighters once the Indian Pilots learn to use their machine better.

So actually you should be following your own advice and chill out my friend and not take it personally.

 

[Super Falcon]

why indian airforce not been in this years red flag exercise and what type of fighter jets usa airforces uses to counter our F 16 block 52