PAF participates in "Red Flag" and "Green Flag"

[MastanKhan]

In this picture, Captain Waseem (bottom left) is wearing A-5 patch alongside the Griffin Squadron Patch. A-5s are to be decommissioned within this year or next year max, and replaced with JF-17. I think its a good move to bring along pilots who will be transferring to JF-17s, and training them along-side viper pilots.

Kudos to PAF.

Regards,
Sapper

Hi,

Whats up with the ranks on the shoulder patches---those are not our standard rank patches for the AF---. Is it because we are in the U S or ---

 

[Zulfiqar]

Hi,

Whats up with the ranks on the shoulder patches---those are not our standard rank patches for the AF---. Is it because we are in the U S or ---

They have been for some years now. PAF changed from those ribbons to these.

 

[behram]

They have been for some years now. PAF changed from those ribbons to these.

Terrible ranks thanks to ACM Tanvir. Losing tradition day by day in the PAF.

 

[Quwa]

Terrible ranks thanks to ACM Tanvir. Losing tradition day by day in the PAF.

The rank badges are a non-issue, but my understanding is that it was changed to guide those local and foreign people unfamiliar with the British system. That said, the terms are still being used...e.g Flt Lt, Sqd Ldr, Wg Cdr, etc. Secondly, we need to start abandoning traditions that are not conducive to fostering brotherhood and meritocracy in the forces.

 

[MastanKhan]

They have been for some years now. PAF changed from those ribbons to these.

Hi,

I like that----they should be changed in pakistanb as well---same ranks as the army---same insignia as that of the army---maybe the paf will get its feet back on the ground ---get its head back on the ground and be more in synch with the ground forces.

 

[Donatello]

Hi,

I like that----they should be changed in pakistanb as well---same ranks as the army---same insignia as that of the army---maybe the paf will get its feet back on the ground ---get its head back on the ground and be more in synch with the ground forces.

Why does it have to be an issue? Whether they are on the ground or not is irrespective of their abilities.

PAF to this day is probably one of the few efficient organizations in the country.....probably even more than the army.

 

[behram]

The rank badges are a non-issue, but my understanding is that it was changed to guide those local and foreign people unfamiliar with the British system. That said, the terms are still being used...e.g Flt Lt, Sqd Ldr, Wg Cdr, etc. Secondly, we need to start abandoning traditions that are not conducive to fostering brotherhood and meritocracy in the forces.

Well every AVM I've met looks now like a JCO with these new ranks, also with other ranks mentioned. And 2nd of all its the Turkish system the PAF has adopted during the year of 2006 and onwards.

 

[fatman17]

it was done to create the 'perception' of equality within the armed forces.

P/O = 2nd lt
F/O = lt
F/lt = capt
SL = Major
WgC = lt.Col

and so on......

personally i prefer the 'old system'

 

[TaimiKhan]

it was done to create the 'perception' of equality within the armed forces.

P/O = 2nd lt
F/O = lt
F/lt = capt
SL = Major
WgC = lt.Col

and so on......

personally i prefer the 'old system'

Sir, sometimes change is good.

And this new change in the insignia for PAF seems to be good, as now people can understand whom they are watching meaning what is the rank and even if they don't know the rank terminology, by correlating it with the Army rank structure, you can easily know what is the rank of the PAF officer. Before this rank structure came, i had no idea who the officer was, couldn't differentiate between a P/O, F/O, F/Lt or anyone above. Only the strap at the color showed this guy is Wing Comd or above.

Plus, the new rank structure does looks cool and the PAF uniform now is more attractive.

Also, its been 6 decades since the British have gone, time to make some changes and leave aside their ancestral gifts.

I recommend Navy should also give it a thought and change theirs too, as that is not also readable except for the senior ranks.

Before the change, the PAF officers looked like NCOs/JCOs as you couldn't differentiate, now they look officers

 

[behram]

Sir, sometimes change is good.

And this new change in the insignia for PAF seems to be good, as now people can understand whom they are watching meaning what is the rank and even if they don't know the rank terminology, by correlating it with the Army rank structure, you can easily know what is the rank of the PAF officer. Before this rank structure came, i had no idea who the officer was, couldn't differentiate between a P/O, F/O, F/Lt or anyone above. Only the strap at the color showed this guy is Wing Comd or above.

Plus, the new rank structure does looks cool and the PAF uniform now is more attractive.

Also, its been 6 decades since the British have gone, time to make some changes and leave aside their ancestral gifts.

I recommend Navy should also give it a thought and change theirs too, as that is not also readable except for the senior ranks.

Before the change, the PAF officers looked like NCOs/JCOs as you couldn't differentiate, now they look officers

Every PAF pilot I've met, hates the new ranks. And the uniform has changed accordingly the last few years(not at all impressed with it).

 

[SQ8]

Every PAF pilot I've met, hates the new ranks. And the uniform has changed accordingly the last few years(not at all impressed with it).

Every old PAF pilot curse them too, they all lament the quality of officers too... too much mediocrity and sycophantic trend setters all over the forces.

 

[Chogy]

Interesting - I was in a cafe near Alliance Airport, Ft Worth, Texas, and there were three USAF officers in green flight suits, and a Pakistani pilot with them. His shoulder rank had me baffled. At first glance he looked like a 3-star general, but that lasted about 1/10th of a second, as we was far too young.

How does PAF rank define where you fly in a flight or mission? In the USAF, rank defines your authority on the ground, but within the squadron, there are generally the Commander, XO, and "everyone else." Respect is gained by ability in the air, and it was entirely normal to see a 1Lt (2nd lowest officer rank) lead a flight of four, with Majors or Lt Colonels on the wing, because the 1Lt was by far the better pilot.

The bulk of the best in the USAF are usually junior Captains (O-3) and 1Lt (O-2), because they spend the bulk of their time refining the art, while higher ranks do more administration and paperwork.

In the PAF, is there ever an issue with a junior officer leading a flight with a more senior officer on the wing?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Every PAF pilot I've met, hates the new ranks. And the uniform has changed accordingly the last few years(not at all impressed with it).

Well this is human nature, disliking and resistant to change.

Our military mindset is of that nature, they don't like change, nor want it and will resist it.

 

[Patriot]

Interesting - I was in a cafe near Alliance Airport, Ft Worth, Texas, and there were three USAF officers in green flight suits, and a Pakistani pilot with them. His shoulder rank had me baffled. At first glance he looked like a 3-star general, but that lasted about 1/10th of a second, as we was far too young.

How does PAF rank define where you fly in a flight or mission? In the USAF, rank defines your authority on the ground, but within the squadron, there are generally the Commander, XO, and "everyone else." Respect is gained by ability in the air, and it was entirely normal to see a 1Lt (2nd lowest officer rank) lead a flight of four, with Majors or Lt Colonels on the wing, because the 1Lt was by far the better pilot.

The bulk of the best in the USAF are usually junior Captains (O-3) and 1Lt (O-2), because they spend the bulk of their time refining the art, while higher ranks do more administration and paperwork.

In the PAF, is there ever an issue with a junior officer leading a flight with a more senior officer on the wing?

Sir,
This was posted by x-man and MUradk (Ex-PAF Officer) before when someone asked them questions about promotion and some other things.

A very complicated question I will just go through a few points.

When you graduate from the Academy you go to FCU Which is the first stage of you becoming a fighter Pilots after that you go to OCU by the time you reach OCU a lot of boys don't make it. There are thousands of factors from which you can be suspendid, In OCU we see how the boy in Air how good is he in studies , weight, and a lot more. When you graduate OCU PAF will see that ok this boy is good in studies his mind is faster than the fighter his weight is excellent if a spot is open in 11OCU he goes to F-16 rest according to the above are sent on different fighters. Sometimes pilots gain weight very quickly after academy now you dont want to put a 230 pound pilot in a 9 g fighter and so on.
Question 2 is also answered.
now this question is wrong

how are base commanders of different squadrons appointed rather than to upgrade them to more hiteck jets suppose f-16s? is age a factor here?

First Base commanders don't command Fighter SQD, a SQD Commander does. A Base Commander commands the whole base and every base has a wing which is commanded by OC flying. So the base commander sits on the top. From the day you pass out from Academy your ACR is done every year than they see what kind of pilot were you how much score did you pull in CCS how was your tenure as a Flight Commander OPS or Training how good an instructor were you what qualifications do you have are you a Green Card, Master Green, White card , Master white all these things make up your resume which goes to DCAS OPS in AHQ he decided how goes where.
now remember there are only 2 people in PAF who have power the COAS and a SQD COMMANDER because of the fire power he has under him. A Sqd Cmd decides what is good from his SQD he can over ride the decision of the OC flying and the Base commander at any time without telling them.
Just because you are flying an F-16 doesn't mean you will fly JF-17 or a new plane like I said the above is taken into consideration.

Sir MuradK also replied to your queries, so I will just add few more points..

Unlike many other airforces that segregate the fighter and transport/helicopter pilots at a very early stage, PAF trains everyone to become a Fighter pilot. However barring few exceptions, the unsuccessful ones who are generally dropped from the OCUs or considered unsuitable for fighter flying are either sent to helicopters or to the transport aircrafts.

Until late 80s/early 90s majority of pilots did OCU on F-6. When F-7s arrived, there were parallel OCUs of both F-6 and F-7. And since F-6s phased out, now we have only the F-7 OCUs.

When only F-6 was in OCU, the successful pilots were equally split between A-5 and F-6 squadrons. The choice of aircraft was usually made by the students or depending upon the requirements, the seniors will make the decision. After spending 3 to 4 years in an F-6/A-5/F-7 squadron, pilots are then moved onto either Mirage or F-16. Selection mainly depends upon ones :-

1. Flying performance in various roles.
2. Annual Evaluation reports.
3. Squadron commander’s recommendation.

PAF trains every pilot in each role no matter which aircraft one is assigned to. For example, while A-5 pilots extensively fly in the ground attack role, but they also have to fly a good chunk of air combat missions every year. They do fly similar and dissimilar air combat missions a lot. Similarly, while an F-7 pilots basic role is air superiority but they do fly lots of staffing, bombing and strike missions too. Hence when a pilot switches from an A-5 to F-16, it’s not difficult for him to grasp the air combat role or vice versa.

So presently there are two routes to climb up the ladder:-

1. OCU on F-7---> 2 or 3 years in F-7/A-5 ------> Mirage ( another 2 years)-----> F-16
2. OCU on F-7---> 3 to 4 years in F-7/A-5 ------>straight to F-16

Hopefully once we have JF-17, FC-20 and Block 52s in our inventory and no more F-7/A-5/Mirage, the routes could be:-

1. OCU on JF-17---> 2 or 3 years in JF-17 ------>F-16 MLU ( another 2 years)-----> F-16 Block 52
2. OCU on JF-17---> 2 or 3 years in JF-17 ------>FC-20
3. OCU on JF-17---> 2 or 3 years in JF-17 ------>FC-20( another two years)-----> F-16 Block 52

What I have seen and learnt that IAF also follows a similar pattern. Their base fighter is Mig-21 and from there they move up the ladder to Mig 23/Mig 27/Jaguar----> Mig 29/ Mirage-2000 and then onto SU-30. There can be few variations in this path but this is how it generally works.

 

[TOPGUN]

And pic's from green flag guys?