PAF Jets in Flights over North Waziristan

[air marshal]

PAF Jets in Flights over North Waziristan
September 13, 2008

MIRAMSHAH: The Pakistan Air Force started reconnaissance flights in areas on the border with Afghanistan in the wake of increased airspace violations by US drones and incursions by coalition forces into tribal areas.

At least 12 people were killed in North Waziristan tribal region in a suspected US missile attack, the second strike in three days in the same region.

A US spy plane was seen in the skies above North Waziristan earlier during the day, but it disappeared as soon as Pakistani fighters appeared. The jets, which were seen for the first time after a series of US attacks in the tribal belt, reconnoitred the region for an hour.

There is growing concern in Pakistan over unilateral US military action and the Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has condemned the strikes but said Pakistan will pursue diplomatic path to convince the US to stop attacks in Pakistani areas.

Pakistan Air Chief Air Marshal Tanvir Mehmood has said that the air force can respond to violation of air space by the US forces if the government issues orders.

The army spokesman Major General Athar Abass said that the army has been issued orders to react in case of violation by Afghanistan-based U.S forces.

Locals welcomed the PAF move as reassuring. “The presence of Pakistani fighter planes gave a sense of security to the people,” one man said.

US-led forces had carried out a ground assault in Angoor Adda, near the Afghan border, killing over 50 people. Tribesmen welcomed the “timely reaction” by Chief of the Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, to the US action.

“The people are very happy over action by Pakistani aircraft in view of the frequent air violations by US spy planes,” the tribesman said. “I saw the fighter plane also flying towards the Afghan border area,” the tribal elder said, requesting not to be identified.

 

[Neo]

Pakistan cites anti-terrorism need for F-16s​

Sunday, 14 September, 2008

WASHINGTON: Pakistan uses F-16 fighters to support a campaign against border militants and needs upgrades to be able to fly at night, a Pakistani official said yesterday.

The official underlined equipment needs and listed recent achievements fighting Al Qaeda and Taliban insurgents ahead of a US congressional hearing next week that will examine the utility of F-16s in US ally Pakistan’s war on terrorism.

Pakistan has flown nearly 100 missions during three weeks in August that produced some 500-550 Taliban casualties.
“These missions have been very focused, and since air power is always effective, the Taliban are very much upset about this and have retaliated,” said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity.
“This campaign will last for some time,” he told a small group of reporters.

The House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on the Middle East and South Asia will hold a hearing on Tuesday and grill Bush administration officials on the F-16 program with Pakistan and its utility in counterterrorism operations against Al Qaeda and Taliban extremists.

The title of the hearing — “Defeating Al Qaeda’s Air Force: Pakistan’s F-16 Programme in the Fight Against Terrorism” - betrays lawmakers’ skepticism and belief that Pakistan wants the advanced fighters to deploy against rival India, an analyst said.

In July, two senior Democratic Party lawmakers asked the Bush administration not to shift $226.5mn in US counterterrorism aid to Pakistan to upgrade Pakistani F-16 fighters, saying they feared the plan diverted cash from more urgent counterterrorism efforts.

The Pakistani official said well-funded and well-armed militants had dug in with anti-aircraft guns that made it risky to use helicopters to support the army’s fight against militant havens in the northwestern Bajaur region.

Pakistani forces were “very much handicapped” by the lack of equipment to enable the F-16s to fly and fight at night, giving the militants the ability to regroup after daytime encounters, said the official.
“We are blind and they are moving at will,” he said.

The debate takes place against the backdrop of long-standing US criticism that Pakistan has not done enough to fight militants hiding in remote corners of that country and staging attacks against US and Nato troops in Afghanistan. - Reuters

 

[IceCold]

Well with PAF jets patrolling the skies against any intrusion by the allied forces, i highly doubt that this hearing will go any forward in Pakistan's favour.

 

[muse]

I hope it does not. One way friendship is bad for Pakistan and bad for U.S. PLus the F-16 is a miilstone around our neck - yes we have the infrastructure, yes, there will plenty in the market in the near future, yes, it's a fine platform -- but all these are moot points when it is simply not available in the way that Pakistan needs it to be available.

 

[air marshal]

 

[IceCold]

gDvTPfkgvPY[/media] - PAF Jets in Flights over North Waziristan - September 13, 2008

What are these mirages equipped with? Sidewinders?

 

[Nomi929]

I think this is just File footage.

 

[echo 1]

This is diffenatly a good step for Pakistan. Now sending in fighter to protect our area will discourage any further action for either the US forces and the Al Qaeda’s.

 

[IceCold]

This is diffenatly a good step for Pakistan. Now sending in fighter to protect our area will discourage any further action for either the US forces and the Al Qaeda’s.

Yeah well unless of course Mr.10% has other plans for it.

 

[U-571]

pakistan needs to get rid of "taliban" issue as soon as possible applying any method possible, its essential for a stability and to wash away "pakistan=terrorism" tattoo on its forehead. i think pakistan is very unlucky state, when will pakistan get "good-luck"??

 

[TOPGUN]

PAF Jets in Flights over North Waziristan
September 13, 2008

MIRAMSHAH: The Pakistan Air Force started reconnaissance flights in areas on the border with Afghanistan in the wake of increased airspace violations by US drones and incursions by coalition forces into tribal areas.

At least 12 people were killed in North Waziristan tribal region in a suspected US missile attack, the second strike in three days in the same region.

A US spy plane was seen in the skies above North Waziristan earlier during the day, but it disappeared as soon as Pakistani fighters appeared. The jets, which were seen for the first time after a series of US attacks in the tribal belt, reconnoitred the region for an hour.

There is growing concern in Pakistan over unilateral US military action and the Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has condemned the strikes but said Pakistan will pursue diplomatic path to convince the US to stop attacks in Pakistani areas.

Pakistan Air Chief Air Marshal Tanvir Mehmood has said that the air force can respond to violation of air space by the US forces if the government issues orders.

The army spokesman Major General Athar Abass said that the army has been issued orders to react in case of violation by Afghanistan-based U.S forces.

Locals welcomed the PAF move as reassuring. “The presence of Pakistani fighter planes gave a sense of security to the people,” one man said.

US-led forces had carried out a ground assault in Angoor Adda, near the Afghan border, killing over 50 people. Tribesmen welcomed the “timely reaction” by Chief of the Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, to the US action.

“The people are very happy over action by Pakistani aircraft in view of the frequent air violations by US spy planes,” the tribesman said. “I saw the fighter plane also flying towards the Afghan border area,” the tribal elder said, requesting not to be identified.

First things any country as the right to protect its airspace and boders etc! so any thing that comes should and shall be shot down that i assure now will be now !! for sake of lives lost ! second it will show the US and the world that we werent doing anything wrong other then doing wat is rightful of us to do! But i do say that PAF bombs the sh_t out of the damn taliban terroists etc and force this thing is going way to far and the real wake up call is for us not the US or the world look at all that is going down in PAK cities no where is safe its sad and wrong and needs to be controled now so it can be stopped one day in the future ! anyhow GOD bless Pakistan !

 

[IceCold]

First things first ever country as the right to protect its airspace , people and boders etc! so any thing that comes should and shall be shot down that i assure u now will be done !! for sake of lives lost ! second it will show the US and the world that we werent doing anything wrong other then doing wat is rightful of us to do! But i do say that PAF bombs the sh_t out of the damn taliban terroists etc this thing is going way to far and the real wake up call is for us not the US or the world look at all that is going down in PAK cities no where is safe its sad and wrong and needs to be controled now so it can be stopped one day in the future ! anyhow GOD bless Pakistan !

Remember something that Pakistan has had more success then both NATO and US in Afghanistan. Obviously that came to a very high price resulting in a loss far greater as compared to both US and NATO combined. We have successfully managed to breach the UK terror plot and yet what did we get out of it, a louder cry to do more. Bottom line is that we need to make the west in paticular the US to realize the reality of how miserably have they failed and should accept their defeat rather then pouring blame on us. We have done our part successfully and will continue to do so, anyone that has to do more is the US on their side of the border and not us. The sooner we highlight this reality to the US the better it would be for all of us.

 

[fatman17]

^^^my question is:--> when the US/Nato predators / UAV's are flying (~7-10,000 ft), are US/NATO forces providing top-cover / CAPs for these assets. if the answer is yes, then these a/c are BVR capable whilist any PAF a/c flying recce or CAP will be otherwise!
then what?

 

[shehbazi2001]

^^^my question is:--> when the US/Nato predators / UAV's are flying (~7-10,000 ft), are US/NATO forces providing top-cover / CAPs for these assets. if the answer is yes, then these a/c are BVR capable whilist any PAF a/c flying recce or CAP will be otherwise!
then what?

As I have already mentioned in my posts, if the drones dont stop attacking, then first we should try AAA and MANPADS.........

For PAF coming over Waziristan and the possibility of top-cover air superiority fighters with AMRAAMs...........its not straight-forward and easy..........its obvious.........but then the Indian AF also has BVR AAMs....should we also not stop any Indian intrusion too????

We should do what we can...............and surely no one can cross our limits if we behave like a nuclear power..........we need to show our nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles and cruise missiles to anyone with bad intentions...........

For tackling BVR AAMs, I think PAF need to re-activate all its F-6s for role as drones. We may call them QF-6s, following US nomenclature but they can also be given a local codename. US does not throw away completely any of its fighters.

When F-4s and F-86s, F-102s etc were retired, they were used as QF-4, QF-86, QF-102 drones for air-to-air missile tests and other experimental work.

We need to win an opening encounter with USAF or Indian AF. The rest can be tackled with developed countermeasures and tactics and a grand strategy of air strikes and ground offensives together. PAF alone should not be responsible.

One day we decide to stop some Predators who are coming in with some top cover of F-16s armed with AMRAAMs. Now, each F-16 normally carries only two AMRAAMs. For a formation of 4 F-16s, thats 8 AMRAAMs.

First formation of fighters from Pakistani side should be 2 formations of remote-controlled QF-6 drones flying towards Predators or US F-16s at combat speed with 4-5 QF-6s in each formation. or One formation of QF-6 can fly towards Predators and other towards top-cover.

The top-cover F-16s shall soon fire their AMRAAMs on these drones, which are in fact real fighter aircrafts. PAF observing this battle and seeing that US aircrafts are taking the bait, should order own real piloted fighters to move in for the close dogfight. I hope PAF shall win the combat.

Whole 170 million Pakistani population shall declare a national festival and pilots and PAF will be cherished as supreme heros.

This tactic can be used with various variations like mixed formations of drones and piloted fighters with piloted fighter behind the drone and many like this. One thing is that PAF actual formation should not start from too low and thus losing any energy for dogfight. How to use and camoflage the acutal piloted formation is left to air combat practicians.

 

[IceCold]

As I have already mentioned in my posts, if the drones dont stop attacking, then first we should try AAA and MANPADS.........

For PAF coming over Waziristan and the possibility of top-cover air superiority fighters with AMRAAMs...........its not straight-forward and easy..........its obvious.........but then the Indian AF also has BVR AAMs....should we also not stop any Indian intrusion too????

We should do what we can...............and surely no one can cross our limits if we behave like a nuclear power..........we need to show our nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles and cruise missiles to anyone with bad intentions...........

For tackling BVR AAMs, I think PAF need to re-activate all its F-6s for role as drones. We may call them QF-6s, following US nomenclature but they can also be given a local codename. US does not throw away completely any of its fighters.

When F-4s and F-86s, F-102s etc were retired, they were used as QF-4, QF-86, QF-102 drones for air-to-air missile tests and other experimental work.

We need to win an opening encounter with USAF or Indian AF. The rest can be tackled with developed countermeasures and tactics and a grand strategy of air strikes and ground offensives together. PAF alone should not be responsible.

One day we decide to stop some Predators who are coming in with some top cover of F-16s armed with AMRAAMs. Now, each F-16 normally carries only two AMRAAMs. For a formation of 4 F-16s, thats 8 AMRAAMs.

First formation of fighters from Pakistani side should be 2 formations of remote-controlled QF-6 drones flying towards Predators or US F-16s at combat speed with 4-5 QF-6s in each formation. or One formation of QF-6 can fly towards Predators and other towards top-cover.

The top-cover F-16s shall soon fire their AMRAAMs on these drones, which are in fact real fighter aircrafts. PAF observing this battle and seeing that US aircrafts are taking the bait, should order own real piloted fighters to move in for the close dogfight. I hope PAF shall win the combat.

Whole 170 million Pakistani population shall declare a national festival and pilots and PAF will be cherished as supreme heros.

This tactic can be used with various variations like mixed formations of drones and piloted fighters with piloted fighter behind the drone and many like this. One thing is that PAF actual formation should not start from too low and thus losing any energy for dogfight. How to use and camoflage the acutal piloted formation is left to air combat practicians.

But what about SD-10? Cant mirages with rose upgrades be made capable to fire SD-10? Also by this time i think PAF should have around 8 JF-17s with them. Time to put them to the test.