PAF is well-equipped, updated force: air chief

[randomradio]

Not True

You would have a point if our geographical distance was 2000km, but we live right next to each other. There will be limited BVR Engagements but most of the fights will be in WVR, because if the IAF wants to damage PAF, it will have to punch through the border and enter PAF's airspace.

For limited BVR Engagements, we have plenty of F16's and JF17's. Keep in mind, in the present day and age Strike Packages are the name of the game. A PAF Strike Package will contain a mix of Mirages, F7 PG's, F16's and JF17's. F16's and JF17's to provide air cover and engage in Electronic Warfare, PG's to guard the Mirages for close WVR Fights and Mirages to deliver Strikes. Not as simple as you might think, the F7PG rightly used is a deadly aircraft.

BVR distances today are less than 50Km.

 

[Centurion2016]

Based on the Adversary Main Strengths PAF needs

150 mid Teir 4th generation fighters with Amraam c5 AND above BVRs ie block 52
150 local built low cost Thunders with improving blocks

50 state of The Art late 4th generation Fighter twin engine TIP OF THE SPEAR ie J11/SU35 or Typhoon or Rafale.

PAF needs a long range SAM/ABM defense capability 6 batteries ( 60 missles each) ie FT2000/S300/ PATRIOT

The adversary has nearly 1000 Brahmos cruise missles in all 3 services .

Finally medium range high altitude SAM capabability ie range 40-80 missles similar to the barak 8 in indian service from Israel .

Real time intelligence via several satalites

ARSENAL OF BOMBS MISSLES SPARES TO FIGHT if needed for 3 -4 weeks

Most of what I have listed is aready in indian hands ie

Barak 8 /spyder/ akash
S300
mica BVRS python missles
satalite cover and 400+ 4TH GEN FIGHTERS.

PAF needs this type of air power to survive a war

The biggest mistalke the PAF made was they have never ever seriously counterd

The fleet of of 250 of these

When you compare the PAF V IAF today not just in fighter nos or quality of planes but also the strategic depth advantage and widespread of bases india has and its far bigger nos and vaiety of air defense systems Pakistan wil rely on 2 things to survive a war.

1. That it is short conflict lasting only 4 or 5 days and UN push for ceasefire
2. That indian tactics and maintenance mean the Indians never yield their full power over Pak skys.

If howver the Indians get the time to get mainteanance and spares right AND they get their strategy and tactics correct than their fleet can cause severe damage to PAF infrastructure simply by virtue of nos payload and range of operations they can conduct .

 

[Imran Khan]

updated with new 18 f-16 and 60+ jf-17 ?

 

[Super Falcon]

PAF short on air superiority fighter jets and few tactical air liftercargos needed

250 SU 30 is a threat in number and in quality we lack numbers and quality too

Either buy 50 SU 35 to balance the power or buy Chinese J 11

 

[asif_hussain]

PAF is woefully short on front line fighters and lack of ESA or AESA based jamming on any front line or support fighters is a very big weakness somebody here was saying they could take on a Rafale with a old F7 well you could theoretically but even with a squadron of F-7 its practically suicide there is a limit to what a pilot can do and this kind of thinking is moronic and suicidal nothing heroic about it you live to fight another day going against a far superior adversary and getting wasted is no bravado instead capacity building is required and a proper and focussed Defence Acquisition Plan is required which should result in a proper Jets being fielded however costly they are.

 

[Centurion2016]

150 block 52S AT LEAST with 50 top end twin engined euro canard or su35/j11

 

[John Reese]

PAF is woefully short on front line fighters and lack of ESA or AESA based jamming on any front line or support fighters is a very big weakness somebody here was saying they could take on a Rafale with a old F7 well you could theoretically but even with a squadron of F-7 its practically suicide there is a limit to what a pilot can do and this kind of thinking is moronic and suicidal nothing heroic about it you live to fight another day going against a far superior adversary and getting wasted is no bravado instead capacity building is required and a proper and focussed Defence Acquisition Plan is required which should result in a proper Jets being fielded however costly they are.

They ThinK That In Age Of high off boresight IRCCM missiles With HMDS They Will Have chance In Vintage Aerial Dogfights

India Has Mix of HOBS CCM

• R-73E
• Python-5
• MICA RF/IR
• ASRAAM

150 block 52S AT LEAST with 50 top end twin engined euro canard or su35/j11

IAF Always Has Policy To Maintain 3:1 Ratio Over PAF With Indian Budget Sour Up to 80-90 Billion $ By 2020
Against 150 F-16 India Will Produce over 400 MKI's +US MII F-16/F-18/F-35 or Rafale

India Also Has Naval Air Arm Since India Will Planning of 4 AC's It Will Raise Its Naval arm to 250-300 Fighters In coming Decade

am sure IAF isn't incompetent as you state it is, did it completely forget all about China?.
Before you go on any further PAF has both AIM-9 and PL-9, which both are IRCCMs.
As well as AIM-120 a highly successful BVR missile, PAF's F-16s incorporate HMD, which will become a standard for JF-17s too.

Any who, the punch line is that the statement by the Chief is in regards to battle readiness and professionalism of the PAF. Maybe something similar can be said about the MKI's had they ever reached the peak of their battle readiness.

No they are Not There is No HOBS High Off-Boresight IRCCM in PAF Service With HMDS Presently

Most Of your Fighters Has HUD Including JF-17 (Planned for BLk 3)

Only Fighter has HMDS Like JHMCS (joint helmet-mounted cueing system) is F-16 Blk 52 But There is No HOBS Like Advanced Aim-9x block 3 In Service

Aim-120 you have is old C version with Active Seeker No Infra-red homing versions Either

NO Passive IRST Sensor Either In any of your fighters

Ask you Experts Mate For Guidance

For your Intellectual reading Please Look at Source below What is HOBS (High Off-Boresight) CCM Stand For.

https://theaviationist.com/tag/high-off-boresight/

Can you please provide the source of your information about India having 1000 Brahmos cruise missiles in service?

The Exact numbers would be over 3000+ Missiles

Indian Army
The Brahmos Block I was inducted into the army on 21 June 2007.[30] The Brahmos has been inducted in three regiments of the Indian Army.[112] The army has raised one regiment (numbered 861) of the Mark I and two missile regiments of the BrahMos Mark II, numbered 862 and 863. The first regiment with five mobile launcher cost $83 million to set up.[113] Each of the two new regiments would have between four and six batteries of three to four Mobile Autonomous Launchers (72 missiles per regiment) that can be connected to a mobile command post.[51][114] All these regiments will be part of the army's existing 40th and 41st Artillery Divisions. The operational BrahMos regiments are:[11][115]

• 861 Regiment (BrahMos Block I, deployed in north Rajasthan area)
• 862 Regiment (BrahMos Block II, deployed in south Rajasthan area)
• 863 Regiment (BrahMos Block II)
• 864 Regiment (BrahMos Block III, ordered for Arunachal Pradesh area)

Indian Navy
By April 2013, Brahmos has been inducted in eight warships of the Indian Navy.[25] The following ship classes of the navy are equipped with BrahMos:

• Rajput-class destroyers[103] – INS Rajput has four Brahmos missiles in 2 twin inclined launchers with in 2003.[104][105] INS Ranvir and INS Ranvijay were armed with one 8-cell Brahmos VLS launcher.[106][107]
• Talwar-class frigate – The three later ships, INS Teg, INS Tarkash, INS Trikand were armed with one 8-cell Brahmos VLS launcher.[103][108][109]
• Shivalik-class frigate – the three frigates in this class are armed with one 8-cell Brahmos VLS launcher.[103][105][110]
• Kolkata-class destroyer (two active and one more under construction) – armed with two 8-cell Brahmos VLS launchers.[103][108][111]
• Visakhapatnam-class destroyer (building)-armed with two 8-cell Brahmos land attack and anti ship VLS launchers.

Submarine-launched

• Submarine-launched, anti-ship variant – Tested successfully for the first time from a submerged pontoon on 20 March 2013

This is the first time I am hearing of Indian navy planning to have 4 standing aircraft carriers in service; do you have a reputable source from where you got this information?

India Already Has TWo carrier in Service


There 2-3 vikrant Class AC already in Advanced constrution Cochin Shipyard Limited (CSL)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikrant-class_aircraft_carrier

One Nuclear Powered AC with Emails With US Is Planned
http://atimes.com/2016/02/americas-master-plan-to-turn-india-into-an-aircraft-carrier-superpower/

Recently
Russia Offers India Nuclear Aircraft Carrier Technology
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...ndia-nuclear-aircraft-carrier-storm/86937106/

First of all I asked for reputable source and I think you know fully well that a wikipedia page is not a reputable source.
Secondly, none of the links you have presented mention any number of deployed Brahmos, so your assumption that there are more than 3000 Brahmos deployed is without any merit.

About my second question asking for a source about India planning to have 4 standing aircraft carriers, none of the links you presented relate to my question. I know currently India is working on indigenous aircraft carriers but these aircraft carriers are supposed to be commissioned while retiring older aircraft carriers, so I don't think India will have 4 standing carriers at any time, at least not in planning so far.

About the two carriers in service in the Indian navy that you mentioned, one is way past it's useful operational life (INS VIraat) and Indian navy is planning to decommission it in 2016 or 2017.

India already building 2 carriers
Vikrant class

IAC-1 vikrant who will
Substitute the retired carrier commission by 2018

IAC-2 INS Vishal is already layed down by CSL shipyard it will be also a vikrant class carrier it would will be commissioned by 2024

Pictures are on Google reputable source


Wikipedia is just collection of sources and references
It used as best first hand source of information by experts even on PDF


American nuclear powered CATOBAR carrier will be layed in around 2020-21 and will be commissioned in 2027

India also started construction to have 6 SSN
And 6 SSBN

For further information go to PDF Indian Navy thread

Brahmos already deployed in Army since 2007
There 72 missile's per block 1 regiment

144 in block 2 missiles per regiment

Block 3 216 missiles per regiment


PS:Start a thread to clear you quarries about AC and Brahmos

Wikipedia is not taken as a credible source anywhere in the world as any person with a computer and an internet connection can write whatever they like on it, so please spare me with these Wikipedia links.

Also, if you don't have an answer to very specific questions that I asked, you don't have to throw around links and other information that doesn't answer my questions. I know sometimes when egos are involved, we do irrational things but it's not a contest.

Anyways, so far Indian navy has no plans of having 4 standing carriers as you mentioned, so please don't spread false news.

You either to dum or playing

You cannot post anything on wikipedia without authentic references and they are quoted with each lines and you have verify
It with authentic source

Should I post you threads where PDF mods are quoted wiki sources

Fake news construction of INS vikrant &Vishal is also in CSL also pictures fake

Either You to dumb or playing it

Google it your self

Here full layed down INS vikrant aka IAC-1

Next time Google it youself

I have specifically quoted your information where you said India is going to have 4 aircraft carriers and I asked for a reliable source. You are giving me Wikipedia sources and these sources in itself doesn't say anywhere that India is planning to have 4 standing aircraft carriers in navy anywhere, so either you have a problem understanding English or you are just too retard to understand. Stop calling others dumb (try to learn English first) and increase your knowledge first. I don't need any pictures of your shipyards churning out junk, we are already seeing your junk Tejas for the last 30 years.

I plan on reporting you if you don't stop you rabid charade here.

I already reported you

Child you are exposed by you immature response

Already posted pictures picture
Of full scaled IAC-1 from CSL

As for junk its from Indian shipyard it better from your PN or whatever that small entity you call






As for you others rants

It's typical Fanboyish response

You are on my marked list on PDF

And I will haunt you

With you pathetic knowledge of military and technology
Makes you perfect candidate for being banned in few weeks

As far LCA its has capibilty fire High off bore sight CCM with HMDs

Capibilty no PAF fighters have till now

Considering WMD-7 in IRST mode, not much details are given.

To qualify in IRST function, it has IR targeting upto 20km. Although using laser designation can make the aircraft detectable, the range is even lesser, 15km. It does have vid cams for zooming and higher resolutions.

Sniper Pod carried by PAF F-16's can use its IRST function in A2A combat.
Im unsure if A2A missiles need to be integrated with WMD-7 or the integration of all weapon(A2G/A2A) suite of JF-17 is automatically configured with WMD-7.

It has no comparison and the passive IRST sensors like OLS
Pirate or OSF

 

[Moon]

The biggest mistalke the PAF made was they have never ever seriously counterd

The fleet of of 250 of these

Hi,
Please go through the 20+ threads in which various scenarios have been simulated showing the MKI and IAF as whole being countered.

They ThinK That In Age Of high off boresight IRCCM missiles With HMDS They Will Have chance In Vintage Aerial Dogfights

India Has Mix of HOBS CCM

• R-73E
• Python-5
• MICA RF/IR
• ASRAAM

IAF Always Has Policy To Maintain 3:1 Ratio Over PAF With Indian Budget Sour Up to 80-90 Billion $ By 2020
Against 150 F-16 India Will Produce over 400 MKI's +US MII F-16/F-18/F-35 or Rafale

India Also Has Naval Air Arm Since India Will Planning of 4 AC's It Will Raise Its Naval arm to 250-300 Fighters In coming Decade

I am sure IAF isn't incompetent as you state it is, did it completely forget all about China?.
Before you go on any further PAF has both AIM-9 and PL-9, which both are IRCCMs.
As well as AIM-120 a highly successful BVR missile, PAF's F-16s incorporate HMD, which will become a standard for JF-17s too.

Any who, the punch line is that the statement by the Chief is in regards to battle readiness and professionalism of the PAF. Maybe something similar can be said about the MKI's had they ever reached the peak of their battle readiness.

 

[Moon]

No they are Not There is No HOBS High Off-Boresight IRCCM in PAF Service With HMDS Presently

Most Of your Fighters Has HUD Including JF-17 (Planned for BLk 3)

Only Fighter has HMDS Like JHMCS (joint helmet-mounted cueing system) is F-16 Blk 52 But There is No HOBS Like Advanced Aim-9x block 3 In Service

Aim-120 you have is old C version with Active Seeker No Infra-red homing versions Either

NO Passive IRST Sensor Either In any of your fighters

Ask you Experts Mate For Guidance

For your Intellectual reading Please Look at Source below What is HOBS (High Off-Boresight) CCM Stand For.

https://theaviationist.com/tag/high-off-boresight/

Never said anything about HOBs. I said "

Before you go on any further PAF has both AIM-9 and PL-9, which both are IRCCMs

And quite effective one's. AIM-9L G, was the first AIM-9 to incorporate it. Which had a success rate of 80 percent.

Never mentioned HUD. Read my post thoroughly.

Again, AIM-120 is the most successful BVR platform. And I believe 120C is the one which bagged the most kills.

As for IRST,

Since you stated 4 ACs, I guess showing this pic is justified.


Rest of your post is gibberish, do read what I've written in my previous post, then reply accordingly.

 

[John Reese]

Never said anything about HOBs. I said "

And quite effective one's. AIM-9L G, was the first AIM-9 to incorporate it. Which had a success rate of 80 percent.

Never mentioned HUD. Read my post thoroughly.

Again, AIM-120 is the most successful BVR platform. And I believe 120C is the one which bagged the most kills.

As for IRST,

Since you stated 4 ACs, I guess showing this pic is justified.


Rest of your post is gibberish, do read what I've written in my previous post, then reply accordingly.

IM Talking About High Off Bore Site IRCCMs Like Aim-9x ,MICA R-73E,Python-5 A-dater Etc
you Quoted me First try to Know about the subject


This Not IRST Its reconnaissance pod For Ground Missions Much Like Lightening G series . Here is Old Thread About This Picture you posted @Quwa Kid Don't Fool Around Im Veteran PDF Member
https://defence.pk/threads/could-jf-17-benefit-from-a-photo-recon-pod.425175/


Talking About Long-range Passive IRST Sensors Please Name the Sensor

Let Me give you Examples Of Passive IRST Sensors Around the World Air-forces
An Passive IRST sensor on the Su-27.

OSF (Optronique secteur frontal)

PIRATE-IRST on Typhoon

SAAB Gripen with its Skyward-G IRST

OLS optical detection pod used on Sukhoi-30 MKI

 

[DesiWarrior]

Based on the Adversary Main Strengths PAF needs

150 mid Teir 4th generation fighters with Amraam c5 AND above BVRs ie block 52
150 local built low cost Thunders with improving blocks

50 state of The Art late 4th generation Fighter twin engine TIP OF THE SPEAR ie J11/SU35 or Typhoon or Rafale.

PAF needs a long range SAM/ABM defense capability 6 batteries ( 60 missles each) ie FT2000/S300/ PATRIOT

The adversary has nearly 1000 Brahmos cruise missles in all 3 services .

Finally medium range high altitude SAM capabability ie range 40-80 missles similar to the barak 8 in indian service from Israel .

Real time intelligence via several satalites

ARSENAL OF BOMBS MISSLES SPARES TO FIGHT if needed for 3 -4 weeks

Most of what I have listed is aready in indian hands ie

Barak 8 /spyder/ akash
S300
mica BVRS python missles
satalite cover and 400+ 4TH GEN FIGHTERS.

PAF needs this type of air power to survive a war

Can you please provide the source of your information about India having 1000 Brahmos cruise missiles in service?

They ThinK That In Age Of high off boresight IRCCM missiles With HMDS They Will Have chance In Vintage Aerial Dogfights

India Has Mix of HOBS CCM

• R-73E
• Python-5
• MICA RF/IR
• ASRAAM

IAF Always Has Policy To Maintain 3:1 Ratio Over PAF With Indian Budget Sour Up to 80-90 Billion $ By 2020
Against 150 F-16 India Will Produce over 400 MKI's +US MII F-16/F-18/F-35 or Rafale

India Also Has Naval Air Arm Since India Will Planning of 4 AC's It Will Raise Its Naval arm to 250-300 Fighters In coming Decade

This is the first time I am hearing of Indian navy planning to have 4 standing aircraft carriers in service; do you have a reputable source from where you got this information?

First of all I asked for reputable source and I think you know fully well that a wikipedia page is not a reputable source.
Secondly, none of the links you have presented mention any number of deployed Brahmos, so your assumption that there are more than 3000 Brahmos deployed is without any merit.

About my second question asking for a source about India planning to have 4 standing aircraft carriers, none of the links you presented relate to my question. I know currently India is working on indigenous aircraft carriers but these aircraft carriers are supposed to be commissioned while retiring older aircraft carriers, so I don't think India will have 4 standing carriers at any time, at least not in planning so far.

About the two carriers in service in the Indian navy that you mentioned, one is way past it's useful operational life (INS VIraat) and Indian navy is planning to decommission it in 2016 or 2017.

India already building 2 carriers
Vikrant class

IAC-1 vikrant who will
Substitute the retired carrier commission by 2018

IAC-2 INS Vishal is already layed down by CSL shipyard it will be also a vikrant class carrier it would will be commissioned by 2024

Pictures are on Google reputable source


Wikipedia is just collection of sources and references
It used as best first hand source of information by experts even on PDF


American nuclear powered CATOBAR carrier will be layed in around 2020-21 and will be commissioned in 2027

India also started construction to have 6 SSN
And 6 SSBN

For further information go to PDF Indian Navy thread

Wikipedia is not taken as a credible source anywhere in the world as any person with a computer and an internet connection can write whatever they like on it, so please spare me with these Wikipedia links.

Also, if you don't have an answer to very specific questions that I asked, you don't have to throw around links and other information that doesn't answer my questions. I know sometimes when egos are involved, we do irrational things but it's not a contest.

Anyways, so far Indian navy has no plans of having 4 standing carriers as you mentioned, so please don't spread false news.

You either to dum or playing

You cannot post anything on wikipedia without authentic references and they are quoted with each lines and you have verify
It with authentic source

Should I post you threads where PDF mods are quoted wiki sources

Fake news construction of INS vikrant &Vishal is also in CSL also pictures fake

Either You to dumb or playing it

Google it your self

Here full layed down INS vikrant aka IAC-1

Next time Google it youself

I have specifically quoted your information where you said India is going to have 4 aircraft carriers and I asked for a reliable source. You are giving me Wikipedia sources and these sources in itself doesn't say anywhere that India is planning to have 4 standing aircraft carriers in navy anywhere, so either you have a problem understanding English or you are just too retard to understand. Stop calling others dumb (try to learn English first) and increase your knowledge first. I don't need any pictures of your shipyards churning out junk, we are already seeing your junk Tejas for the last 30 years.

I plan on reporting you if you don't stop you rabid charade here.

 

[thrilainmanila]

The ACM thinks that by winning a paint job competition PAF is well, equipped and updated.
By winning a Paint Job Competition Pakistan is in favor of erradicating terrorism (this is his own words).
there are many heroine addicts in the backstreets of peshawar,Lahore, Karachi, i'm sure the ACM is among those crack heads. hes an embarrassment.

 

[Signalian]

As for IRST,

Considering WMD-7 in IRST mode, not much details are given.

To qualify in IRST function, it has IR targeting upto 20km. Although using laser designation can make the aircraft detectable, the range is even lesser, 15km. It does have vid cams for zooming and higher resolutions.

Sniper Pod carried by PAF F-16's can use its IRST function in A2A combat.
Im unsure if A2A missiles need to be integrated with WMD-7 or the integration of all weapon(A2G/A2A) suite of JF-17 is automatically configured with WMD-7.

It has no comparison and the passive IRST sensors like OLS
Pirate or OSF

i never compared anything, however, who cares, you are entitled to your own opinion