PAF is well-equipped, updated force: air chief

[The SC]

Realistically

Considering the resources I'm astoinished paf can field 20 sqs of fighters.

Today the Royal Air Force French Air Force and the mighty Luftwaffe have fewer combat sqs than paf.

IN THE FUTURE LIKE ALL MODERN AIR POWERS I SEE PAF SHRINKING IN SIZE but adding more teeth via multi role late generation fighters .

Ie s


six sqs of Falcons mlu and 52s

9 sqs of block abc thunders

2 or 3 sqs of elite multi role fighter j11 0r j31

Why should you be surprised, England , France, Germany and so..are all NATO countries, how many squadrons NATO has?

 

[DesiWarrior]

I am just amazed at this kid's ability to copy paste stuff and making assumptions and points in whatever way he wants to make. How can you have an intelligent conversation with him.

First he was of the view that Pakistan has no passive detection system and once he was presented proof from reputable sources that's not the case, he has copied couple of more pages of data from web. I am just sick and tired of him.

 

[ghazi768]

See the principal on which F-35 DAS works

Your logic applies universaly

exaggerated marketing gimmicks of BVR or WVRs

Like
Aim-120 which claim to has ranges more than 100 miles


Or Chinese exaggerated claims of mastering Radar heating problem In just development of single generation of AESA RADARs

Which took usa 3 decade's.

Russians are still struggling

No idea about F-35 DAS, but it is an interesting concept because other than system below nose they also appear to have put up two above the nose. One look to be an IR sensor, your guess is may be better than mine about what other is.

No ideas if Chinese have mastered AESA heating issues or not but if you end up seeing one mentioned in JF-17 brochures for a smaller nose than well you can make whatever opinion about it.

AIM-120 do have a range more than 100 miles, it depends on which version you are talking of, whether it is an 'engineering' range or a 'manoeuvring' range, speed it is going to fired from and altitude as well. E.g. if you fire from mach 1.5 rather than 0.8 than Rmax1 is usually about twice what you will see at 0.8.. etc. etc. But why the hell you will fire at Rmax1, the guy can just turn and trot back to home base, whistling all the way.

 

[John Reese]

I am just amazed at this kid's ability to copy paste stuff and making assumptions and points in whatever way he wants to make. How can you have an intelligent conversation with him.

First he was of the view that Pakistan has no passive detection system and once he was presented proof from reputable sources that's not the case, he has copied couple of more pages of data from web. I am just sick and tired of him.

I also surprised by the the fact that
You to used the same art of copy and paste from brochure of Sniper Targeting


Without knowing which variant its was I caught off guard

It was typical case of pot calling black


Secondly you made claimed

sniper ATP being decticated. IRST sensor like Pirate ,Skyward G or OSF

Smartly brushing argument's I raised

Please quote IR tracking range of Sniper ATP
In Head on and Pursuit mode
Do it has multiple Tracking capibilty

 

[John Reese]

No idea about F-35 DAS, but it is an interesting concept because other than system below nose they also appear to have put up two above the nose. One look to be an IR sensor, your guess is may be better than mine about what other is.

No ideas if Chinese have mastered AESA heating issues or not but if you end up seeing one mentioned in JF-17 brochures for a smaller nose than well you can make whatever opinion about it.

AIM-120 do have a range more than 100 miles, it depends on which version you are talking of, whether it is an 'engineering' range or a 'manoeuvring' range, speed it is going to fired from and altitude as well. E.g. if you fire from mach 1.5 rather than 0.8 than Rmax1 is usually about twice what you will see at 0.8.. etc. etc. But why the hell you will fire at Rmax1, the guy can just turn and trot back to home base, whistling all the way.

You missed it

Point was your sarcasm about pirate IRST range at pursuit

Secondly fighter's only fly most of its
Flight envelope in subsonic speed
And safe fuel for mission complete

Use of afterburners is avoided only if. It's required



Like IRST
Same case goes to AIM-120
What it's brochure market is gimmicks to attack customers

That it take on target at range of 100 miles


But in reality longest reported kill made by AIM-120 was below 60KM or less

 

[ghazi768]

You missed it

Point was your sarcasm about pirate IRST range at pursuit

Secondly fighter's only fly most of its
Flight envelope in subsonic speed
And safe fuel for mission complete

Use of afterburners is avoided only if. It's required



Like IRST
Same case goes to AIM-120
What it's brochure market is gimmicks to attack customers

That it take on target at range of 100 miles


But in reality longest reported kill made by AIM-120 was below 60KM or less

Kid, you are now giving arguments for arguments sake and nothing more.

AAM ranges is not like SSM ranges i.e 100km does not mean range from point A to a point B which is 100km away. It is a dynamic range dependant a lot on your speed, heading and altitude and the other guys speed, heading and altitude. These things are not mentioned in brochures they usually mentioned the top most figure achievable, and same is the case of IRST/FLIR systems as well. If you cannot understand this shit than better stop acting like an expert.

 

[MastanKhan]

What should have been done in your opinion? What would have been your plan of action?

Hi,

I have written a lot on it.

 

[litman]

When the IAF crosses the border or gets close.



Every Time. In order for the IAF to achieve its stated tactical and strategic goals, they need to punch through PAF's Defences on the Border and Engage in Knife Fights. Anything less than that, and we are just pretending to play war.



You're clearly getting confused here my friend. Both sides have comprehensive Radar Coverage over each other. With the introduction of AWACS, both sides can now even spot blow flying fast movers or attack helicopters. Thus, there will not be a surprise from either side.



Exactly, and the interceptors will engage them as they see fit. Your entire premise relies on the fact, that PAF will fight the IAF under their rules.



Again, you're looking at the entire spectrum through Black and White. That's just fan fiction nothing else, Modern Warfare is not fought like this. Whatever Strike Package the IAF sends, PAF has the necessary SOP's and the interceptors to deal with it. Fifth Generation Jets is certainly not the answer, not by a long shot. Again, you're looking at things black and white. First, the rest of the world is still decades away before they can field a sophisticated Aircraft like the F22. Second, whether its China or Russia hasn't even come close to replicating the RCS reduction capabilities that we have seen on the F22. Third, there are Radar Developemnts that are happening Parallel and how long before Radars are developed that have the ability to spot Aircrafts with minimal RCS. Unfortunately, your entire premise is based on Black and White Theories.



This is not a movie my friend. In order for the IAF to punch through the border, they have to engage in WVR Knife Fights. If not, than we are just pretending to play war. They can take BVR Shots from far away, and we can do the same. The farther the missile is fired from, the lower its kill ratio. E.g If the MKI fires a BVR shot from 70 km away, the PAF Interceptor can just turn and escape its maximum range.



We don't need to send in Fighters for Deep Strike Missions, this is not the 90's. This is exactly why PAF has invested heavy resources into developing Stand Off Weapons. Why send an Aircraft to carry out a Deep Strike, when the Cruise Missile or a Long Range Gliding Bomb can do the same.



I am well aware of IAF's EW Capabilities, they are simply top notch. But they are not even close to being Superior Enough to overwhelm PAF's Capabilities. I suggest you go back a few years, and we debated extensively in regards to PAF's EW Capabilities.



That is not true my friend.

AIM-120C
SD10-A
PL9-III
etc all have Off Bore Sight Capability

What PAF lacks is a 5th Generation WVRAAM such as the AIM-9X but PAF has been operating 4th Generation WVRAAM for quite some time. Here's a little homework for you, F7PG's were firing 4th Generation WVRAAM's cued up with their HMD's in High Mark Exercise 2010. Find out what Missile that was.

[/QUOTE]

When the IAF crosses the border or gets close.



Every Time. In order for the IAF to achieve its stated tactical and strategic goals, they need to punch through PAF's Defences on the Border and Engage in Knife Fights. Anything less than that, and we are just pretending to play war.



You're clearly getting confused here my friend. Both sides have comprehensive Radar Coverage over each other. With the introduction of AWACS, both sides can now even spot blow flying fast movers or attack helicopters. Thus, there will not be a surprise from either side.



Exactly, and the interceptors will engage them as they see fit. Your entire premise relies on the fact, that PAF will fight the IAF under their rules.



Again, you're looking at the entire spectrum through Black and White. That's just fan fiction nothing else, Modern Warfare is not fought like this. Whatever Strike Package the IAF sends, PAF has the necessary SOP's and the interceptors to deal with it. Fifth Generation Jets is certainly not the answer, not by a long shot. Again, you're looking at things black and white. First, the rest of the world is still decades away before they can field a sophisticated Aircraft like the F22. Second, whether its China or Russia hasn't even come close to replicating the RCS reduction capabilities that we have seen on the F22. Third, there are Radar Developemnts that are happening Parallel and how long before Radars are developed that have the ability to spot Aircrafts with minimal RCS. Unfortunately, your entire premise is based on Black and White Theories.



This is not a movie my friend. In order for the IAF to punch through the border, they have to engage in WVR Knife Fights. If not, than we are just pretending to play war. They can take BVR Shots from far away, and we can do the same. The farther the missile is fired from, the lower its kill ratio. E.g If the MKI fires a BVR shot from 70 km away, the PAF Interceptor can just turn and escape its maximum range.



We don't need to send in Fighters for Deep Strike Missions, this is not the 90's. This is exactly why PAF has invested heavy resources into developing Stand Off Weapons. Why send an Aircraft to carry out a Deep Strike, when the Cruise Missile or a Long Range Gliding Bomb can do the same.



I am well aware of IAF's EW Capabilities, they are simply top notch. But they are not even close to being Superior Enough to overwhelm PAF's Capabilities. I suggest you go back a few years, and we debated extensively in regards to PAF's EW Capabilities.



That is not true my friend.

AIM-120C
SD10-A
PL9-III
etc all have Off Bore Sight Capability

What PAF lacks is a 5th Generation WVRAAM such as the AIM-9X but PAF has been operating 4th Generation WVRAAM for quite some time. Here's a little homework for you, F7PG's were firing 4th Generation WVRAAM's cued up with their HMD's in High Mark Exercise 2010. Find out what Missile that was.

[/QUOTE]
if you are bent upon proving the whole world wrong it's your choice. the whole world is going towards 4.5 the and 5th gen jets and according to your logic they shouldn't as the 2nd and 3rd gen jets can still do the job well. rafale , mig 29, su 30 are far better then obsolete mirages, F 7s in both WVR and BVR combts.

 

[IceCold]

With a handful of sixteens, you would hardly call PAF well equipped considering what the competition is trying to acquire. Yes its a well trained force but hardly well equipped.

right but what will be the opposition for such a strike package? Su30, AWACS, Rafales, S400 etc. attacking deep inside the enemy territory will be a nightmare for both IAF and PAF specially for PAF due to limited numbers of hi tech jets. the only solution to this solution is fifth gen jets

PAF well use stand off weapons to strike deep like RAAD and H8 etc, keeping out of enemy defences.

 

[Ultima Thule]

You missed it

Point was your sarcasm about pirate IRST range at pursuit

Secondly fighter's only fly most of its
Flight envelope in subsonic speed
And safe fuel for mission complete

Use of afterburners is avoided only if. It's required



Like IRST
Same case goes to AIM-120
What it's brochure market is gimmicks to attack customers

That it take on target at range of 100 miles


But in reality longest reported kill made by AIM-120 was below 60KM or less

IRST/FLIR is not super sensor that are flawless invincible, the biggest weakness of IRST is that they have greatly reduce ranges in bad and adverse weather condition, yeah yeah what makes you happy

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

With the current Paf inventory---the Iaf does not need to get into knife fights---. With its long range sams---and a large BVR capable air force----it would be totally stupid for the iaf to lose its position of strength and fight from a position of weakness.

Why would they---would lose your position of strength---. If you would not---then why do you expect the enemy to lose its position of strength.

It is scoot and shoot all the way for Iaf---because they can shoot and escape .

 

[zebra7]

IRST/FLIR is not super sensor that are flawless invincible, the biggest weakness of IRST is that they have greatly reduce ranges in bad and adverse weather condition, yeah yeah what makes you happy

Agreed and Disagreed.

Earlier IRST/FLIR solution gives advantage in knife fight of close combat, and becomes De-fracto sensor in all Soviets/Russian planes and becomes very lethal combination with Helmet Cued IR guided A2A missile. Western soon realises it and developed the poded solution.

With an event of the technological gains, now the IRST with higher bandwidth, and powerful Optronics slaved could not be used to detect the stealthy planes, but also to confirm positively of the hostile threat, where REd on Blue confrontation becomes difficult due to high electronic jamming environment for the confirm FOE friends or Foe confirmation. The Pulse dopler radar technique to locate the enemy could be exploited by the enemy, and I might be wrong, but US exploited that vulnerability of the PAF during the OBL raid at night, when a static helicopter could not detected by the pakistani Air defence and US supplied F-16s.

Few months back there was an event of the shooting of a Ballon in Rajasthan, which was elleged flown from Pakistani side, a MKI was send to check the unknown slow moving object, why not MIG-21 Bison, which could be easily and quickly scrambled at the first place, because the MKI was equiped with the onboard OSL system.

 

[Tipu7]

when a static helicopter could not detected by the pakistani Air defence and US supplied F-16s.

From where you learned this?

 

[zebra7]

From where you learned this?

My guess !!!

 

[Windjammer]

My guess !!!

You shouldn't debate on merely your own guess work.
A drone is much smaller than a helicopter, the low flying IAF Searcher -II was detected by the F-16 flying at 13000 feet and promptly shot down with a Lima round. As for balloons, the PAF constantly faced this dilemma in the late 80s and 90s, mostly originating from Afghanistan,.. after several scrambles and picking up the harmless targets, the ground radar operators managed to acquire the knowledge to differentiate between an actual threat and these balloons.

Wreckage of IAF UAV showing marking of Israel Aircraft Industries. The UAV was wearing no-marking, and was believed to be put in service with Indian AF in a ‘hurry’.