PAF Chief discuss future targets of Air Force with PM Nawaz Sharif

[Thorough Pro]

"Mentality", my friend is slave to financial resources.

Because of the same mentality Pakistan has missed out on strategically beneficial and industrially lucrative oppurtunities. Many western weapons at the drawing board stage were offered to Pakistan which it rejected but those same systems are now world class weapons to be reckoned with.

Many airforces have different categories of aircrafts for different reasons.
F-35 will replace F-16 in multi-role category.

TAI TFX will most likely take up the air superiority role.

Our MoD has also hinted interest towards TAI TFX and with T-129 deal I would speculate more cooperation between Pak & Turk in aerospace and defence at large.

 

[Big Tank]

PAF is not a professional force as of kargil war when India had BVR capabilities the paf before kargil saying we will defend our country this and that when IAF Mirages throwing bombs on kargill war our f 16 we're socking sun heat in ground

PAF since early 90s gone into shell one dimensional thinking

When India is pitching more numbers and quality silently paf busy focusing on thunder only which has limitations in air battle and most of our airforce F 16 are old can't match the radars of rafales class jet

Fact is we don't have any heavy weight Thunder project is good to replace lower catogery of F 7 PG and A 5 fantans alone these can be 150 jets alone but after 30 years we are sitting on same number of hey neither upgrading our airforces with something more capable jet in all aspects of heavyweight when most countries focusing at least one class of jet which have a limitless power like RAFALE EURO F35 F 15 SU 35 etc

We still have mindset of 80s

I agree to your points but as far as Kargil is concerned.

There were political reasons behind. PAF activities were restricted by Musharraf so in case of being caught up. He could've declined PA's activity and blamed it on the Kashmiri Mujahedeen. In fact. PAF had no prior information regarding the operation.

 

[ziaulislam]

Pakistan military Budget $9 billion per year
Indian military budget $52 billion per year

Why anmd how do you expect Pakistan to compete with that HUGE GAP

lol we dont
Pakistan doing fairly decent...

all we need 3~4 billion package for PAF, which it needed for additional used f-16s or j-10s or flankers or used/new typhoons(if available).
the blame here lies on failure of political leader ships in case of used/EDA f-16s(new ones are available) and priorities of armed forces and political leadership when it comes to j-10s

i will add that the negligence of Indian forces/political leadership when it comes to growing Chinese power is astonishing or we are lucky i guess

 

[ghazi768]

Because of the same mentality Pakistan has missed out on strategically beneficial and industrially lucrative oppurtunities. Many western weapons at the drawing board stage were offered to Pakistan which it rejected but those same systems are now world class weapons to be reckoned with.

Many airforces have different categories of aircrafts for different reasons.
F-35 will replace F-16 in multi-role category.

TAI TFX will most likely take up the air superiority role.

Our MoD has also hinted interest towards TAI TFX and with T-129 deal I would speculate more cooperation between Pak & Turk in aerospace and defence at large.

In my opinion, participation in TFX is for hedging another bet related to NGF. It will be more on subsystems/components level to have more choices.. or in a way more strings to pull, rather than outrightly investing ourselves for purchase commitments before prototypes. An 'off the shelf' 5th generation purchase is higher.. but may depend upon what they are ready to give and what they are not, commitments to our project etc. etc.

 

[My-Analogous]

PAF has some money and wants Nawaz is creating trouble and not releasing

@Zarvan This is the actual case my friend as i said earlier that something big is on the way
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...-altitude-long-endurance-uav-programs.505322/

 

[Muhammad Omar]

We Are Looking For 2 5th Generation Aircrafts ????

Telling you J-31 and TAI TFX is on Cards

J-31 till 2024 and TAI TFX in 2030 to replace F-16's

 

[Centurion2016]

We Are Looking For 2 5th Generation Aircrafts ????

Telling you J-31 and TAI TFX is on Cards

J-31 till 2024 and TAI TFX in 2030 to replace F-16's

Regional Super powers like India cannot dream of two Fifth generation fighters

Elite global air forces like Israel Raf & France with ten times your resources cannot begin to plan for two separate fifth generation programmes

AND YET PAF are planning for two programmes ????????????????

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Regional Super powers like India cannot dream of two Fifth generation fighters

Elite global air forces like Israel Raf & France with ten times your resources cannot begin to plan for two separate fifth generation programmes

AND YET PAF are planning for two programmes ????????????????

What's Stopping India? Rather then just buying buying buying from other countries start your Own Program and as you can read one platform is early harvesting Program like J-31 which will be jointly produced by China and Pakistan it's gonna Cost $60-70 Million That too i'm over exaggerating the cost if locally produced it's gonna cost less

Long term project TAI TFX which will be inducted to replace the F-16's Pakistan has till 2030 we will be in Much better financial situation then we are today still 13 Years are left

India is Starting Local production of F-16's or Gripen in India to replace the MiG-21 which also gonna cost you Billions May be Later you guys will go for F-35 with PAK-FA who knows you priority is to Replace MiG-21 today

we have different Scenario we are not starting Both programs right now but 1 is short term and other is long term even REGIONAL HYPER POWER India can do this what's the big deal

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

We Are Looking For 2 5th Generation Aircrafts ????

Telling you J-31 and TAI TFX is on Cards

J-31 till 2024 and TAI TFX in 2030 to replace F-16's

IMO it will be one off-the-shelf program (i.e. FC-31 or TFX) and one locally developed 5+ gen program.

It seems that the PAF wants to see the design and development aspects take place in Pakistan and established AvDI for this very purpose. This basically negates the notion of AvDI taking an existing design. The design period can also coincide with the lead-time to build the infrastructure, technology base and human resources to manufacture a fighter with 70%+ local input.

Seeing the potential timeline and the PAF ACM's earlier statements about looking "beyond" 5th-gen, it seems that the AvDI project will be an original 5+ gen design. This route might also incentivize the Chinese to participate in the program as it does not completely conflict with the J-20 or FC-31, the PLA itself will be thinking 5+ gen. In a sense, we could see AvDI and AVIC (i.e. IMO most likely CAC) collaborate on their own FCAS-like initiative.

This is a good example of what the industry is imagining for 5+ and 6th-gen:

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/airbus-reveals-tornado-successor-concept-for-2040s/

 

[Centurion2016]

What's Stopping India? Rather then just buying buying buying from other countries start your Own Program
we have different Scenario we are not starting Both programs right now but 1 is short term and other is long term even REGIONAL HYPER POWER India can do this what's the big deal

India has found that with PAK FA despite indian willingness to stump up $4 to $5 billion in development funding for FGFA Russia will not share cutting edge technology. Also India has realised inn some fields Russian cocvkpit technology is not on par with Israel & France and definitely USA.

No other country has a 5th generation poject that india can plough billion $$$$ into andgain technology,,

SO FROM indian experience just jumping into projects like you Pakistanis keep claiming is really luck on your side OR plain wishful thinking AND china is not sharing J31 technology with you and neither is Turkey

I think I have my hunches but will keep stum

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

IMO it will be one off-the-shelf program (i.e. FC-31 or TFX) and one locally developed 5+ gen program.

It seems that the PAF wants to see the design and development aspects take place in Pakistan and established AvDI for this very purpose. This basically negates the notion of AvDI taking an existing design. The design period can also coincide with the lead-time to build the infrastructure, technology base and human resources to manufacture a fighter with 70%+ local input.

Seeing the potential timeline and the PAF ACM's earlier statements about looking "beyond" 5th-gen, it seems that the AvDI project will be an original 5+ gen design. This route might also incentivize the Chinese to participate in the program as it does not completely conflict with the J-20 or FC-31, the PLA itself will be thinking 5+ gen. In a sense, we could see AvDI and AVIC (i.e. IMO most likely CAC) collaborate on their own FCAS-like initiative.

This is a good example of what the industry is imagining for 5+ and 6th-gen:

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/airbus-reveals-tornado-successor-concept-for-2040s/

Do u think indiginous fgf would be medium or heavy weight air superiority?

 

[Muhammad Omar]

IMO it will be one off-the-shelf program (i.e. FC-31 or TFX) and one locally developed 5+ gen program.

It seems that the PAF wants to see the design and development aspects take place in Pakistan and established AvDI for this very purpose. This basically negates the notion of AvDI taking an existing design. The design period can also coincide with the lead-time to build the infrastructure, technology base and human resources to manufacture a fighter with 70%+ local input.

Seeing the potential timeline and the PAF ACM's earlier statements about looking "beyond" 5th-gen, it seems that the AvDI project will be an original 5+ gen design. This route might also incentivize the Chinese to participate in the program as it does not completely conflict with the J-20 or FC-31, the PLA itself will be thinking 5+ gen. In a sense, we could see AvDI and AVIC (i.e. IMO most likely CAC) collaborate on their own FCAS-like initiative.

This is a good example of what the industry is imagining for 5+ and 6th-gen:

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/airbus-reveals-tornado-successor-concept-for-2040s/

These J-31 and TAI TFX are just an example
Obviously we will get Help from Chinese and may be Turkish

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Bros I feel that Aselsan would definitely be involved with electronic and subsystems.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

India has found that with PAK FA despite indian willingness to stump up $4 to $5 billion in development funding for FGFA Russia will not share cutting edge technology. Also India has realised inn some fields Russian cocvkpit technology is not on par with Israel & France and definitely USA.

No other country has a 5th generation poject that india can plough billion $$$$ into andgain technology,,

SO FROM indian experience just jumping into projects like you Pakistanis keep claiming is really luck on your side OR plain wishful thinking AND china is not sharing J31 technology with you and neither is Turkey

I think I have my hunches but will keep stum

Well Russia just milked you guys they were short of Cash they want a partner so called India to Invest in PAK-FA...

Like Lockhead Martin Is giving Local Production to India of F-16's you can go for F-35
Israel Turkey Canada Australia Italy etc All invested their money in F-35 while at that time India was more lean towards Russia you could have gone for F-35 Instead of PAK-FA but oh well

See the Flags on the Plane??

Well Now coming on 2 5th Generation Platform Well If You give them Money they will sell you anything like India is getting Many Components from Other countries for a Locally made jet TEJAS same thing can be done by us We Can buy many things for 5th Generation Platform and locally produce in Pakistan

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

All mods please merge different PAF future fighter threads and create one dedicated thread. Thanks
@waz @Oscar