PAF CAS confirmed the SU-30MKI kill in addition to MiG-21 Bison - Alan Warnes

[Falcon26]

And the PAF air chief would just talk like that and Warnes will just "quote" him like that. Are we delving into symantics here? Look the point Iam making is that the PAF has given out enough indications to the fact that aMig 21 and an SU 30 were shot down. No one doubts the 21 as the debris was in Pak possession. The SU fell in IOK and debris is not located. There maybe evidence in PAF possession which it will not release. Kaiser Tufail has pointed out the SU kill. The badges on PAF pilots point to that. If beyond thatcyou need more evidence then I dont think you will get it from PAF. Now if you dont believe it let us agree to disagree and move on.
A

Again, one would expect that you would know better. Alan Warnes is a journalist. It’s his job to report claims, he in no way claimed to have verified that claim independently. This is how journalism works. When the Indians claimed the F-16 shot, media reported it, and at least two journalists, most popularly Lara Seligman independently debunked the Indian claim by verifying with other sources. Again, this is how journalism works. Alan Warnes quoting PAF Chief says nothing about the veracity of the claims made!

 

[Flight of falcon]

And the PAF air chief would just talk like that and Warnes will just "quote" him like that. Are we delving into symantics here? Look the point Iam making is that the PAF has given out enough indications to the fact that aMig 21 and an SU 30 were shot down. No one doubts the 21 as the debris was in Pak possession. The SU fell in IOK and debris is not located. There maybe evidence in PAF possession which it will not release. Kaiser Tufail has pointed out the SU kill. The badges on PAF pilots point to that. If beyond thatcyou need more evidence then I dont think you will get it from PAF. Now if you dont believe it let us agree to disagree and move on.
A

Indians couldn’t find their An32 transporter for over a week despite it being a large transporter with all bells and whistles and it simply vanished over land. All the Indian satellites couldn’t find the wreckage. Now imagine a much smaller SU30 crashing in the mountains over Kashmir . What are the chances of it being spotted??

 

[Falcon26]

Except, India has never hidden its crashes. Not even the fratricide, not test crashes and above that there is a Comptroller Auditor General, that will track down a missing screw unaccounted for, there is no chance a mki and two pilots vanish just like that. If two pilots were missing in combat, parliament to supreme court would be ringing with the repercussion, not to mention the Abdullah's, kejriwals and the Gandhis would have pounced upon it for electioneering.

The less said about India’s credibility the better. It lied and continues to lie despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Evidence contrary to Indian claims presented by neutral parties continue to be unanswered, yet India and Indians continue to repeat a debunked lie.

 

[Flight of falcon]

Except, India has never hidden its crashes. Not even the fratricide, not test crashes and above that there is a Comptroller Auditor General, that will track down a missing screw unaccounted for, there is no chance a mki and two pilots vanish just like that. If two pilots were missing in combat, parliament to supreme court would be ringing with the repercussion, not to mention the Abdullah's, kejriwals and the Gandhis would have pounced upon it for electioneering.

Indians have a track record of making false claims and sticking with most outrageous claims which were widely ridiculed. How can you trust such foe?

Remember 300 people were supposedly killed and F16 shot down claims.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Except, India has never hidden its crashes. Not even the fratricide, not test crashes and above that there is a Comptroller Auditor General, that will track down a missing screw unaccounted for, there is no chance a mki and two pilots vanish just like that. If two pilots were missing in combat, parliament to supreme court would be ringing with the repercussion, not to mention the Abdullah's, kejriwals and the Gandhis would have pounced upon it for electioneering.

and if an F-16 goes missing, lockheed martin which has heavy Indian presence would know before the dam plane even crashes! All PAF f-16s are tracked by US DOD.

btw, what is your explanation for........

2 R-77 recovered
1 R-73 with tail section still attached to pylon recovered
and 1 R-73 with serial number that can be traced back to IAF inventory also recovered

this fact which every indian keeps avoiding to avoid humiliation defeat.

 

[Arsalan 345]

Except, India has never hidden its crashes. Not even the fratricide, not test crashes and above that there is a Comptroller Auditor General, that will track down a missing screw unaccounted for, there is no chance a mki and two pilots vanish just like that. If two pilots were missing in combat, parliament to supreme court would be ringing with the repercussion, not to mention the Abdullah's, kejriwals and the Gandhis would have pounced upon it for electioneering.

It's useless to talk here.they gave me negative rating just because I raised questions about su-30 claim.they will give you negative rating as well if you challenge their narrative.i mean where is the wreckage of su-30? No body in the world can hide such a big plane and tallguy even claimed 3 su-30 went down.i mean this is crazy.

 

[HRK]

It's useless to talk here.they gave me negative rating just because I raised questions about su-30 claim.they will give you negative rating as well if you challenge their narrative.i mean where is the wreckage of su-30? No body in the world can hide such a big plane and tallguy even claimed 3 su-30 went down.i mean this is crazy.

plz don't play victim card .... your post was not rated negative because of your stance for Su-30 but you was rated negative by a fellow member because of your consistent claim of lost of F-16 which many times earlier was clarified to you by many other members time to time since 27 feb

 

[Vortex]

It's useless to talk here.they gave me negative rating just because I raised questions about su-30 claim.they will give you negative rating as well if you challenge their narrative.i mean where is the wreckage of su-30? No body in the world can hide such a big plane and tallguy even claimed 3 su-30 went down.i mean this is crazy.

After 27 feb no MKI seen near border. Why ? Because at least 1 MKI was shot down by PAF. It is not an evidence, but a highly probable symptom of what happened.
Adding to that the missiles attacks threats from India in the following days.

But for the F16, there is nothing like that.

But i will add that if 1 F16 was shotdown and that too by a Bison, then why indians were threatening us with missiles attacks ?

Events match the downing of MKI, and do not match with downing an F16.

But still again and again you make same randi rona as indians.

So on this you well deserved it.

 

[Flight of falcon]

Here is another lie orchestrated by Modi’s airforce.....
Indians please tell me who is lying here. Your Rafael Pajama wearing air chief or the ministry of defence. Here is the latest jewel from your chief. Pakistanis never entered Indian air space:

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/iaf-achieved-military-objective-in-balakot-op-pakistani-side-did-not-come-into-our-airspace-dhanoa/articleshow/69930076.cms


Or official ministry of defence handout saying Pakistanis crossed into Indian airspace:

See attachment:

 

[TheTallGuy]

It's useless to talk here.they gave me negative rating just because I raised questions about su-30 claim.they will give you negative rating as well if you challenge their narrative.i mean where is the wreckage of su-30? No body in the world can hide such a big plane and tallguy even claimed 3 su-30 went down.i mean this is crazy.

Dear Arsalan,
I am answering you on basis of what claims i made on the forum. yes, you can question Pakistani narrative and your have God Given right to question. but when you question pakistani narrative you have to do it with some reason & logic.

When i claim that PAF shot down 8 IAF aircraft including 3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000i and 3 x MiG-21BISON i have provided specific information/reasons behind it. i have given you the version of Su-30MKI that are shot down. I have provided Squadron Numbers of each aircraft shot down and where did they took off and given how many actually IAF pilots and others are in custody. even provided the reason why wreckage of all 7 fighters (1 x Wreckage is with us) are not known to OSINT yet... but we have approximate location in IHK where they crashed. is the same as why there is not single picture of Pakistani Airstrike Damage on Indian Military compounds have surfaced on OSINT.

Now, Question About Pakistani F-16 Shot down i have told you in Pakistan you have rampant corruption do you have any idea how much money IS floating around for the information and wreckage of F-16.its been three months approximate area where IAF claims IAF F-16 went down is not a place like IHK with 5 soldiers to 1 civilian ratio. it would have been unearthed quickly...

I asked you Why the F-16 why not Mirage 3DP these aircraft apparently went in IHK upto 37-40KM. they are not high tech could be shot down by MiG-21BISON and large fleet of Mirages in PAF it would be very hard for PAF and us at PDF to defend. But indian Narrative sticks at F-16 and that too a twin seat because we have a video evidence of 2 Ejections over LOC.

Dont be angry brother..bring some thing on the table and we discuss after all it is an open forum. i assure you politeness(not calling Names) and subjective discussion is rejuvenating and soul feeding process.

and in end we can always agree to disagree...its that simple..

@Armchair

These days i am baiting IAF officer so he could come over with his ride preferably MiG-29 and have a long and happy life.

 

[Falcon26]

Here is another lie orchestrated by Modi’s airforce.....
Indians please tell me who is lying here. Your Rafael Pajama wearing air chief or the ministry of defence. Here is the latest jewel from your chief. Pakistanis never entered Indian air space:

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/iaf-achieved-military-objective-in-balakot-op-pakistani-side-did-not-come-into-our-airspace-dhanoa/articleshow/69930076.cms


Or official ministry of defence handout saying Pakistanis crossed into Indian airspace:

See attachment:

They have lied so much that they forgot to keep track of their lies

 

[TheTallGuy]

Used cars salesman? I wonder.... anyhow, we need to move forward.

I would like you to come up with a scenario or two as how IAF is going to get even...

As I have said a few times already... There is NO regional hegemon anymore. And this is a dangerous thing!

Before we had a soundbites rich.. of two-front-war-fame... on paper... pumped up by western media... regional hegemon... our neighbour to east.

And after 27th there is none. And this brings strategic calculus of the reinging empire to tailspin.... bad!

8 or 2 is immaterial. What matters... for the first time... we acted as a State that Means Business.

We said we shall #SurpriseYou and we #SurprisedYou ... and after that ... let-me grab mijjils from Ganges...and then- I don't thinks so... from Pak.

All did not go on to live happily everafter... I fear we are in for another attack... now put on your thinking hat and think!

Go...on... Young Pak... suprise us as well!

Bhai Sb,
let me get this IAF officer or officers to defect with there MiG-29s to Pakistan. then we shall see..

 

[MilSpec]

The less said about India’s credibility the better. It lied and continues to lie despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Evidence contrary to Indian claims presented by neutral parties continue to be unanswered, yet India and Indians continue to repeat a debunked lie.

Institutional credibility of India far exceeds most with an organization like CAG, Hiding an entire aircraft from an audit is simply not possible irrespective of your conjecture.

Indians have a track record of making false claims and sticking with most outrageous claims which were widely ridiculed. How can you trust such foe?

Remember 300 people were supposedly killed and F16 shot down claims.

Indian media reported about 225 casualties while an NTRO intercept of detecting close to 300 cell phones in the target sites was dubbed as 300 casualties in the media. IAF flat out refused to give out any casualty figure. India does not operate an equivalent of ISPR, whose credibility for the lack of better words is just "Stellar". (look up DG ISPR Rashid Qureshi).

It's useless to talk here.they gave me negative rating just because I raised questions about su-30 claim.they will give you negative rating as well if you challenge their narrative.i mean where is the wreckage of su-30? No body in the world can hide such a big plane and tallguy even claimed 3 su-30 went down.i mean this is crazy.

First and foremost, why would India hide its crashes? We have never done so. Even fratricides, Planes disappearing in the oceans, even mishap writeoff all are well documented and accounted for. The Indian military has to report to a civilian government and cannot just fudge its inventory and assets as it likes.

Lastly, India is a country where a BSF man not getting the bread of his liking can cause an uproar in the media, and Two missing pilots in combat would be suppressed. But then again most of the crop here believe in extravagant theories anyways, so if the members here want to back their CAS about downing a SU 30, I can understand.

 

[Flight of falcon]

Institutional credibility of India far exceeds most with an organization like CAG, Hiding an entire aircraft from an audit is simply not possible irrespective of your conjecture.

Indian media reported about 225 casualties while an NTRO intercept of detecting close to 300 cell phones in the target sites was dubbed as 300 casualties in the media. IAF flat out refused to give out any casualty figure. India does not operate an equivalent of ISPR, whose credibility for the lack of better words is just "Stellar". (look up DG ISPR Rashid Qureshi).


First and foremost, why would India hide its crashes? We have never done so. Even fratricides, Planes disappearing in the oceans, even mishap writeoff all are well documented and accounted for. The Indian military has to report to a civilian government and cannot just fudge its inventory and assets as it likes.

Lastly, India is a country where a BSF man not getting the bread of his liking can cause an uproar in the media, and Two missing pilots in combat would be suppressed. But then again most of the crop here believe in extravagant theories anyways, so if the members here want to back their CAS about downing a SU 30, I can understand.

Ok then please tell me who should we believe your air chief or ministry of defence? Whose version is the true one?

 

[Arsalan 345]

plz don't play victim card .... your post was not rated negative because of your stance for Su-30 but you was rated negative by a fellow member because of your consistent claim of lost of F-16 which many times earlier was clarified to you by many other members time to time since 27 feb

I am not playing any victim card.yes I am sure about our f-16 kill.i can't ignore radar data whether you call it handwritten or whatever.i am not here to change your views or others.they are just my views but giving negative rating for specific views is wrong.as far as su-30 kill is concerned,I think tall guy has already explained things to me so kindly relax.

After 27 feb no MKI seen near border. Why ? Because at least 1 MKI was shot down by PAF. It is not an evidence, but a highly probable symptom of what happened.
Adding to that the missiles attacks threats from India in the following days.

But for the F16, there is nothing like that.

But i will add that if 1 F16 was shotdown and that too by a Bison, then why indians were threatening us with missiles attacks ?

Events match the downing of MKI, and do not match with downing an F16.

But still again and again you make same randi rona as indians.

So on this you well deserved it.

Relax buddy.lol

Institutional credibility of India far exceeds most with an organization like CAG, Hiding an entire aircraft from an audit is simply not possible irrespective of your conjecture.

Indian media reported about 225 casualties while an NTRO intercept of detecting close to 300 cell phones in the target sites was dubbed as 300 casualties in the media. IAF flat out refused to give out any casualty figure. India does not operate an equivalent of ISPR, whose credibility for the lack of better words is just "Stellar". (look up DG ISPR Rashid Qureshi).


First and foremost, why would India hide its crashes? We have never done so. Even fratricides, Planes disappearing in the oceans, even mishap writeoff all are well documented and accounted for. The Indian military has to report to a civilian government and cannot just fudge its inventory and assets as it likes.

Lastly, India is a country where a BSF man not getting the bread of his liking can cause an uproar in the media, and Two missing pilots in combat would be suppressed. But then again most of the crop here believe in extravagant theories anyways, so if the members here want to back their CAS about downing a SU 30, I can understand.

Is there any incident in the past where India hide something from Pakistan? I don't remember anything and I feel that su-30 is a very big plane so it's hard.i can't deny Pakistani or indian narrative but our case is weak because there is absolutely no evidence.anything would be assumption but I am sure we lost a plane because the radar data was from awacs and it clearly showed targets so it's obvious for me to trust radars data.radar data might be corrupt or wrong but the jet that went down near loc was seen by all so indian narrative is still strong.