PAF and The Case for Eurofighter Typhoon

[HAIDER]

Pakistan has 160 Mirage approximately , another 36 from Egypt will be almost 200 plane. A good platform to modernize and already has infrastructure to rebuilt.

 

[Salman876]

Compounding this problem is that the Mirages aren't suitable for close air support at all, and Pak would largely have to rely on a handful of tired and dilapidated AH-1s.

Why mirages are not suitable for CAS?

 

[Armchair]

Why mirages are not suitable for CAS?

The well swept delta mean they fly at speed and can't slow down. A critical need for any CAS platform is to be able to fly slow enough to identify, target and engage targets.

 

[ziaulislam]

Pakistan has 160 Mirage approximately , another 36 from Egypt will be almost 200 plane. A good platform to modernize and already has infrastructure to rebuilt.

you think its better to moderanize mirages with new wings and rd93 engine or to manufacture jf17 whose line is already active..

the answer is no brainer..ever wonder why USA never extended its f16 life rather built new ones altogether when the line was running in full capacity

a comprehensive update will cost more or as much as jf17 with far less life and capability..

mirages will slowly be cannibalized and will only see a small avionics update if any to keep them running till 2030

The well swept delta mean they fly at speed and can't slow down. A critical need for any CAS platform is to be able to fly slow enough to identify, target and engage targets.

a thing of the past with high resolution optics pods and smart bomb/small diameter guided bombs..you dont need to fly slow and low any more if you have guided small diameter bombs with very good pod

if pAF doesnt has those..it hsould acquire them

 

[Armchair]

you think its better to moderanize mirages with new wings and rd93 engine or to manufacture jf17 whose line is already active..

the answer is no brainer..ever wonder why USA never extended its f16 life rather built new ones altogether when the line was running in full capacity

a comprehensive update will cost more or as much as jf17 with far less life and capability..

mirages will slowly be cannibalized and will only see a small avionics update if any to keep them running till 2030


a thing of the past with high resolution optics pods and smart bomb/small diameter guided bombs..you dont need to fly slow and low any more if you have guided small diameter bombs with very good pod

if pAF doesnt has those..it hsould acquire them

Respectfully, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[airomerix]

The reason I said the PAF C5s may be a bit different from the legacy C5s, is because when the PAF C5s were produced, the US was already producing more advanced AMRAAM variants, meaning some of the components sourced may have been of a superior performance, as old production components were not available.

Just a gossip I saw somewhere online. You surely would know a lot more than me on that. Still, the C5s are really scaring the Indians out of their wits to this day.

Thanks for your reply, always a pleasure to read your informative posts!

@airomerix

AIM-120C was a breakthrough in AMRAAM series. C5 is a very refined and mature iteration. C7 has improved ability to withstand electrical interference while homing in onto the target. The D variant has high off bore sight capability, meaning it can be launched backward, hence a fleeing F-16 can paint and launch an AMRAAM towards chasing bogies .

There is nothing in the Indian arsenal right now that matches C5 in terms of lethality, accuracy, legs and in flight performance.

And thank you for your kind comments. Means alot.

 

[The Accountant]

It is not the case. However, the exact ranges of these missiles are never made public.




They are available. But they can be used for prototyping at best that too with polymers.

3D printing with titanium/composites/metals is altogether a different game. Only a few countries have them.

Is 3D printing of titanium metal and composites are happening. Even if it is happening i doubt it can achieve the desire strength.

3D printer make an object by cteater each layer at a time hence the layers are not tied to each other.

 

[volatile]

simple answer Rafale and Eurofigthers are almost similar in specs (EF with slight edge in A2A role) rest the R&D is shared ,we can match 1 on 1 and also a good findings from Indian MRCA was dependency of EF and veto by member states over sales and support ,this makes the Euro fighter a bigger risk then US F16 where we have to deal with only one US .The real road to future lies with collabration with China and Turkey and if needed Russian options are on the table as well ,personally my liking is for Mig 35 as dedicated medium weight fighter specially for Navy due to RD93 engine similarity and we can incorporate avionics as per our need 1 Billion can give you decent 24 fighters as stop gap for future allocations with Russia and suitable replacement for Mirages

 

[princefaisal]

F-16, Rafale & Eurofighters all belong to 4+ generation aircrafts. Similarly JF17 Block 3 will also be 4+ generation aircraft. Mirages will stay upto 2025.

So its better for PAF to pursue 5th generation aircrafts and enhance production numbers of JF-17 B's and 3's.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Austrian airforce purchased a squadron of Eurofighter Typhoons(TI) in 2002/03 for a sum of 2 Billion Euros.Currently due to political issues and a dispute with the BAE ,the Government wants to sell them this year at all cost. The price they sell for is a matter of interest,as they might go cheaply( as a few countries pulled out from the bid due to economic woes)!!!!. Any country that gets a hand on these state of the art machines along with the associated technologies and infrastructure at a bargain price, will be the very lucky ones.

https://www.flightglobal.com/austria-to-retire-eurofighter-typhoons-from-2020/124735.article

 

[Salman876]

Austrian airforce purchased a squadron of Eurofighter Typhoons(TI) in 2002/03 for a sum of 2 Billion Euros.Currently due to political issues and a dispute with the BAE ,the Government wants to sell them this year at all cost. The price they sell for is a matter of interest,as they might go cheaply( as a few countries pulled out from the bid due to economic woes)!!!!. Any country that gets a hand on these state of the art machines along with the associated technologies and infrastructure at a bargain price, will be the very lucky ones.

https://www.flightglobal.com/austria-to-retire-eurofighter-typhoons-from-2020/124735.article

Make JF-17 more potent aircraft

 

[ali_raza]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the Pak C5s have more range than the legacy C5s...



You can actually buy 3D printers commercially from various commercial sources. Just check out online supplier websites.

admittedly not the high end stuff though.

lol why u want to spill the beans
i didn’t want anyone to know about anything
watch ur 7

 

[airmarshal]

Aim-120C5 was released tp PAF 5 yrs after it got export clearance to non NATO countries.
When AIM-120C5 was released, US and India agreed that it wont be an issue for India as IAF laso issued tender for MRCA at the same time and what ever fighter was chisen F-16 with 120C will be no match.
So the only problem was delay in MRCA.

Yes of course. Whatever Pakistan makes or acquires will be no match to India. But then Feb 27, 2019 also happened!

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Theoretically, all that you have said is correct. I do, however, respectfully differ on the 3rd paragraph. If a full-scale war breaks out, neither air forces would play defensive. For forces that are heavily dependent on technologies as means of fighting, its either "use it or lose it" situation. Being the smaller amongst the two, PAF has a greater realization of this and would start to play "reactionary-aggressor." India has been pondering complete dominance over PAF to achieve their war objectives, as evinced in their self-confusing Cold Start Doctrine. I thus expect PAF to go head-on and try to achieve its objectives within days by inflicting unacceptable damage to IAF. This might result in severe attrition on PAF's side as well. But it's better to lose your assets while destroying that of the enemy.

Theoretically speaking again, punch and prestige combo is an important element in warfare. JF-17 is a good punch element for the PAF but complementing it with a good Western platform would add prestige element (also enhance the punch exponentially), which would psychologically weigh heavy on the adversary. We have already seen how F-16s undermined the IAF's psyche (& that of India as a whole) during Op Swift Retort (OSR). Previously, in 1965, the mere presence of F-104 Starfighter forced IAF fighters to flee, and in that confusion, one IAF Gnat landed inside Pakistan (now in PAF museum). Right now the IAF has one-upmanship against PAF with their Rafale.

I agree. 100%.

 

[airmarshal]

I agree with PAF ideology of keeping a few platforms and mastering them. Its economical and efficient.

Getting Eruofighters in a small number will be actually more expensive in the long run than just considering upfront prices.

PAF is innovative and agile force. It has proved last year against a much bigger adversary.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1246028451615772672