p 17 & type 052c comparison

[laman12345]

India Ships are a joke, almost all are BUY WEAPONS

 

[tanlixiang28776]

One thing I should mention.

The 52C and 54A both use unique VLS cells capable of only using the HQ 9 or HQ 16 respectively.

This provides and overlap of fleet defence in the long range 200 Km HQ 9 and medium range 50 Km HQ 16.

The more recent type 52D uses a Universal VLS that solves the need of this being by utilizing both and many other missiles that used to be placed outside.

I will reiterate that not all VLS are the same. There are only 4 known universal VLS systems in the world. All the others can only use a specific type of missile. The 4 are the Mark 41, Mark 57, Slyver ,and the one on the 52D.

Of these 4 the type 52D has the largest single cells at the dimension of 850mm by 9 meters. For example the tomahawk is only 520mm by 6.25 meters. This means it can fit much larger missiles than what China currently has.

The barak 1 vls is tiny in comparison.

India Ships are a joke, almost all are BUY WEAPONS

Dude STFU if you have nothing to contribute

 

[RISING SUN]

None are in service. That is what i'm saying. While the 52C has been since 2003

I apologize for using launched. The day a ship is fully operational is when its commissioned, which none of the P 15A are. The first type 52C was commissioned in 2003. Also why does it take from 2006 to 2012 to commission? Most ships take this size take 1 to 2 years

What the heck is that? Once you ask for detail. I give it & then again you change the question. But never mind.
Ok fine.
Commissioning was planned for 2010, but has now been delayed to 2012 as a result of design changes and delays in supply of propulsion systems from Ukraine and Russia.
Navy hit by delay of big-ticket projects
NEW DELHI: The progress of the three missile destroyers, being constructed at a cost of Rs 8,459 crore under "Project-15A" at MDL, is worse. Though approved by the government in 2000, latest estimates show the first of these 6,500-tonne Kolkata-class destroyers will be ready only by 2012 or so.
All this will further delay the Navy's plan to order three more destroyers under "Project-15B" as well as four more frigates under "Project-17A" in the next stage. The time and cost overruns in the two projects, being carried out with Russia's help, have been caused by a mix of design and equipment problems, management and infrastructure issues.
"Project-15A, for instance, is going slow due to delay in finalisation of design data and Russian weapons and sensor systems to be used on board. Russia was also late in supplying equipment like shafting and propellers," said a source. Moreover, "extensive design and production rework" had to be done due to a large number of changes made after production work had commenced.
The new destroyers, in turn, will have the Barak-NG (new generation) missiles for air defence, apart from a wide array of strike weapons like the BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles.
Navy hit by delay of big-ticket projects - Times Of India


Russia steps in to bail out sinking Project 15-A
In Mazagon Dock Ltd, Mumbai (MDL), we stare awestruck at two such vessels being built side by side, towering hulks of steel that are being welded and hammered into frontline destroyers for the Indian Navy. Then we are shown their eventual form at a nearby slipway, where INS Kolkata, the first destroyer of Project 15-A, is being kitted out for its commissioning next year.
MDL is fighting to deliver this Rs 11,000 crore project on time. Holding it back is a default by a Ukrainian shipyard in delivering the propellers that drive these warships and the shafting that delivers power from the engines to the propellers. After three years of waiting fruitlessly for the equipment to arrive from Ukraine, MDL placed the order with a Russian shipyard.
Ukrainian shipbuilders, set up in the Black Sea by the erstwhile Soviet Union navy, have been an important source of components for Indian warships. Each of the three Project 15-A destroyers will be powered by four Zarya reversible gas turbines from Ukraine, which have already been delivered. But they can only be installed after Russia delivers the shafting.
MDL Chairman, Vice Admiral HS Malhi told Business Standard, “The Ukrainian shipbuilding industry is a mature one, but we have this problem of non-delivery. The answer is only to increase the level of indigenisation, and to develop and cultivate our own vendor base. As long as we are dependent upon foreign vendors, late delivery will remain a risk.”
Russia is assisting Project 15-A not only with shafting and propellers, but also the know-how for pontoon-assisted launches. Conventionally, a ship is “launched” into water once its hull is completed, after which the superstructure — the upper decks and masts that together weigh several thousand tonne — is fitted on in deeper water. The shallow water near the slipways, where warships are built, cannot accommodate fully built warships, which require a deeper draught.
The INS Kolkata, for example, was under 3,000 tonnes when it was launched into water just 4.5 metres deep. But the next two Project 15-A vessels will weigh over 4,000 tonnes at launch because they will have pontoons — steel compartments welded outside the deck — that will lift the ship in the water like inflatable armbands do to swimmers. The pontoons are removed once the ship reaches deeper water.
Explains Commander HC Dhamija, project superintendent of Project 15-A, “This will provide added buoyancy, which will allow us to launch the ship into shallower water. There are a greater number of days when the tide provides us with 4.5 metres, so that makes planning a launch easier. If, for some reason, you miss the date with the highest tide, you are still left with some options.”
Russia has also provided the warship-grade steel for Project 15-A. Steel Authority of India Limited (SAIL) now makes warship-grade steel, but the manufacture of these destroyers began before SAIL production ramped up. SAIL’s current production is barely enough for the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) being constructed at Cochin Shipyard Ltd, Kochi.
The first Kolkata class destroyer is to be delivered in May 2010. The next two are scheduled for delivery at one year intervals, i.e. May 2011 and May 2012, respectively.
Russia steps in to bail out sinking Project 15-A

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Oh again. Let me say it more correctly. I said that cell in P15 A can hold 1 or more missiles. And when I say this I mean in BARAK 1 cell only barak type of missile,it can hold 1 or 2-3 BARAK 1 no one knows it. I never said it is universal system which you think I am saying.

I never stated SM 2ER at all. You are imagining it. I gave missile name. You can check it on appropriate place. & I didn't compare it. I said capability of BARAK is moving closer to those two missiles.

& I ma asking 3rd time that please give me a link where Ukrainians are themselves claiming. You have given me link where same thing is written what you are saying that Ukrainians are refuting. But where the hell are those Ukrainians in the link? Link only says they are saying but where are they saying. There is no mention of that.

I know about HQ 9. I want to know about HHQ 9 launch. Give me a damn link which states the successful launch of HHQ 9 from naval platform. And please if possible in English language.

No. The barak 1 already has a very compact vls . There would be no reason to design a completely new VLS system that can quad pack barak 1 and do nothing else. Not only illogical but a complete waste of time.

The SM 2ER is the missile current US ships use. What would you like to compare it with the V 2?

That is the link you can contact their office if you want and get the source.

The HHQ 9 is just a naval version of the HQ 9.

Why would any of this be in English?

 

[RISING SUN]

One thing I should mention.
The 52C and 54A both use unique VLS cells capable of only using the HQ 9 or HQ 16 respectively.
This provides and overlap of fleet defence in the long range 200 Km HQ 9 and medium range 50 Km HQ 16.
The more recent type 52D uses a Universal VLS that solves the need of this being by utilizing both and many other missiles that used to be placed outside.
I will reiterate that not all VLS are the same. There are only 4 known universal VLS systems in the world. All the others can only use a specific type of missile. The 4 are the Mark 41, Mark 57, Slyver ,and the one on the 52D.
Of these 4 the type 52D has the largest single cells at the dimension of 850mm by 9 meters. For example the tomahawk is only 520mm by 6.25 meters. This means it can fit much larger missiles than what China currently has.
The barak 1 vls is tiny in comparison.

Dude STFU if you have nothing to contribute

Mate I have no doubt about China manufacturing capability.
But let me know whether you know the specs of BARAK cell. I don't know. That is why I said it may be possible or may not be.
& what I am saying is that in BARAK 1 cell it may be possible to hold 2-3 BARAK 1 missile depending upon their specs. In BARAK 8 cell 2-3 BARAK 8 missile. I am again saying it is only a possibility,it is not clear yet. Wait for 6 months when it will be commissioned,then we will have more clear picture.
By the way now I am going to sleep. It is 1 AM in Mumbai now. Good night.

No. The barak 1 already has a very compact vls . There would be no reason to design a completely new VLS system that can quad pack barak 1 and do nothing else. Not only illogical but a complete waste of time.

The SM 2ER is the missile current US ships use. What would you like to compare it with the V 2?

That is the link you can contact their office if you want and get the source.

The HHQ 9 is just a naval version of the HQ 9.

Why would any of this be in English?

Because I don't know Chinese. If you post some else missile video how will I recognize it.

 

[laman12345]

The India Barak Missile Scandal is a case of alleged defense industry corruption relating to the purchase of Barak Missile Systems by India from Israel. The case were under investigation by the Central Bureau of Investigation, and several people including the Samata Party ex-treasurer R.K. Jain have been arrested.

BARAK cell & Barak Missiles = Imported Weapons and Corruption

I just tell the truth!

 

[tanlixiang28776]

The India Barak Missile Scandal is a case of alleged defense industry corruption relating to the purchase of Barak Missile Systems by India from Israel. The case were under investigation by the Central Bureau of Investigation, and several people including the Samata Party ex-treasurer R.K. Jain have been arrested.

BARAK cell & Barak Missiles = Imported Weapons and Corruption

I just tell the truth!

First of all use normal sized text. making your words larger do not make them any more true.

maybe there is a scandal. This does not affect its performance so it is irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[April.lyrics]

what I am saying is that in BARAK 1 cell it may be possible to hold 2-3 BARAK 1 missile depending upon their specs. In BARAK 8 cell 2-3 BARAK 8 missile. I am again saying it is only a possibility,it is not clear yet. Wait for 6 months when it will be commissioned,then we will have more clear picture.

any reliable proof or link about barak can be packed like what you said?
i mean from Israel.
and about DH10 on,we have clear pic of DH10 being tested on ship 891(one of the 3 PLAN weapon test ships,891.892.893).

 

[Gessler]

Do you even understand what the whole point a modern fleet defense is for these days? Hmm could it be that it has to provide defense for the entire fleet that includes aircraft carriers.

You have changed your topic again.

1) Both the Barak-8 and Barak-8ER have the capability to intercept terminal stage ballistic missiles as well as cruise/terminal stage supersonic/subsonic cruise missiles. The 8ER is better at this due to its extended range and increased maneuverability. In fact there's a thread on PDF about it -

Barak-8: Details from Paris AirShow 2009 | defence.pk

2. The same Vertical launch unit of Barak-8 can also house and fire the Barak-8ER which shares the same dimensions and profile.



^^The missile in the background is the 8ER, foreground B-8.



I don't see what's you're point in saying that fleet defence capability is better performed by HQ-9. When you have t intercept an incoming ballistic missile, you need to do it in the terminal stage. B-8/ER does that perfectly, only that it's range is lesser than HQ-9. But still the range of the 8ER is comparable to that of the US RIM-67 Standards that is used on the US Navy AEGIS.

The B-8ER however is superior to the SM-2ER when it comes to maneuverability, resistance to electronic warfare/jamming and maybe an increased kill probability. The B-8ER provides excellent carrier-defence capabilities, and FYI, the P-15A is already slated to form part of the escort for the Vikramaditya carrier battle group.

The barak 8 meant for the P 15A is the 70 km version.

No. Both the 8 and 8ER are meant for P-15A. See my quotes above and the following link in my previous post. The range of B-8ER is upto 120km, not 70km, that is comparable to that of US AEGIS missiles like SM-2ER.

The HQ 9 is still a 200 km range missile.

With however a lesser chance to take out an incoming missile.

If you want to compare then do so with on that is in the same class of missiles like the 50 km range HQ 16 which can be quad packed in the 64 VLU cells in the type 52D.

Isn't HQ-16 a 30km missile? Same as Shtil-1 that we already have.

Provide numbers instead of simply claiming for the sake of everyone. As for VLU the it simply stands for Vertical launch unit. P 15A has that. What it does not have is universal VLS like the ones on the 52D or the very common mark 41. When we describe the missile payload of a mk 41 ship or the 52D we simply give a number of cells on it and what can fit into each cell. Nobody actually knows the exact payload of that ship from an outsiders point of view. We know explicitly that the P 15A fits exactly 64 barak 8 type missiles and 32 barak 1 missiles. You don't think you can honestly jam a tomahawk type missile in a barak 1 cell right?

It is not known what type of VLS is installed on P-15A exactly. From what I know it already has universal launcher for cruise missiles, although details are still sketchy - Kolkata class guided missile destroyers | defenceprojetsindia.com

The 16-cell universal vertical launcher module (UVLM) fitted on the ship can launch BrahMos missiles.

It is said the UVLM is fitted BrahMos, but it isn't revealed what other types of missiles it can carry. But it's not safe to assume P-15A doesn't have universal launchers for SAMs at all, since it already possesses one for cruise missiles, which may well be capable of launching both BrahMos/Klub or Nirbhay-type long range LACMs.

 

[king of pop]

LOL at the indians deluding themselves

They can't even build a single warship by themselves without Russian help. Now they are so jealous because China has taken a quantum leap with our Type 052D!

we are get russian tecno... but u are copy russian parts.(theaf)

 

[Koovie]

India Ships are a joke, almost all are BUY WEAPONS

And so is your English......

 

[saumyasupratik]

You have changed your topic again.

1) Both the Barak-8 and Barak-8ER have the capability to intercept terminal stage ballistic missiles as well as cruise/terminal stage supersonic/subsonic cruise missiles. The 8ER is better at this due to its extended range and increased maneuverability. In fact there's a thread on PDF about it -

Barak-8: Details from Paris AirShow 2009 | defence.pk

2. The same Vertical launch unit of Barak-8 can also house and fire the Barak-8ER which shares the same dimensions and profile.



^^The missile in the background is the 8ER, foreground B-8.



I don't see what's you're point in saying that fleet defence capability is better performed by HQ-9. When you have t intercept an incoming ballistic missile, you need to do it in the terminal stage. B-8/ER does that perfectly, only that it's range is lesser than HQ-9. But still the range of the 8ER is comparable to that of the US RIM-67 Standards that is used on the US Navy AEGIS.

The B-8ER however is superior to the SM-2ER when it comes to maneuverability, resistance to electronic warfare/jamming and maybe an increased kill probability. The B-8ER provides excellent carrier-defence capabilities, and FYI, the P-15A is already slated to form part of the escort for the Vikramaditya carrier battle group.



No. Both the 8 and 8ER are meant for P-15A. See my quotes above and the following link in my previous post. The range of B-8ER is upto 120km, not 70km, that is comparable to that of US AEGIS missiles like SM-2ER.



With however a lesser chance to take out an incoming missile.



Isn't HQ-16 a 30km missile? Same as Shtil-1 that we already have.



It is not known what type of VLS is installed on P-15A exactly. From what I know it already has universal launcher for cruise missiles, although details are still sketchy - Kolkata class guided missile destroyers | defenceprojetsindia.com



It is said the UVLM is fitted BrahMos, but it isn't revealed what other types of missiles it can carry. But it's not safe to assume P-15A doesn't have universal launchers for SAMs at all, since it already possesses one for cruise missiles, which may well be capable of launching both BrahMos/Klub or Nirbhay-type long range LACMs.

 

[Koovie]

Good job, you just reopened a year old d*** measuring thread..... let the trolling continue

 

[Janmejay]

Very nice thread, @Gessler you always kick some serious @ss .keep up the good work.

 

[Rockstar]

abandon thread