p 17 & type 052c comparison

[karan21]

What makes you think that China does not already have something like this in design already?

Quite possible that, by 2020, China will put the first of their equivalent in service.

Every country has designs. India already has its designs ready for future ships, somewhat look similiar to zumwalt. Btw american weapons are less deadlier than they tell the world. 10 yrs ago they used to say stealth is something out of this world. But iran was able to hack their plane and land it safely. This zumwalt is also a simple destroyer with some new rail guns. Also stealth in the ocean is of very less use as it is already very hard to detect ships in the ocean.

Indian Navy developing new stealth ships - YouTube

 

[UKBengali]

Every country has designs. India already has its designs ready for future ships, somewhat look similiar to zumwalt. Btw american weapons are less deadlier than they tell the world. 10 yrs ago they used to say stealth is something out of this world. But iran was able to hack their plane and land it safely. This zumwalt is also a simple destroyer with some new rail guns. Also stealth in the ocean is of very less use as it is already very hard to detect ships in the ocean.

Indian Navy developing new stealth ships - YouTube

No offence to India but it cannot even hope to start designing a destroyer as advanced as Zumalt class for around another 10-15 years. China already has the technological base to do this.

It is already building the 2nd generation destroyers(Type-052D) equipped with indigenous AESA radars. This will give China a very good base to kick-off design of a next generation stealth class ship and I suspect that they have already started on this project.


I agree that the US overhypes it's technology. It is not as good as they say it is.

Sometimes I do not understand why so many Indians(other Asians too as well) think that US technology is so far ahead that a country like China will never have a chance to match it in the next couple of decades.

 

[IndoUS]

No offence to India but it cannot even hope to start designing a destroyer as advanced as Zumalt class for around another 10-15 years. China already has the technological base to do this.

It is already building the 2nd generation destroyers(Type-052D) equipped with indigenous AESA radars. This will give China a very good base to kick-off design of a next generation stealth class ship and I suspect that they have already started on this project.


I agree that the US overhypes it's technology. It is not as good as they say it is.

Sometimes I do not understand why so many Indians(other Asians too as well) think that US technology is so far ahead that a country like China will never have a chance to match it in the next couple of decades.

Because the US is a pioneer in design of military equipment, the first fifth generation aircraft, their aircraft carrier and drones. All are a class of their own, the US technology may be hyped but they sure as hell are worth the hype.

As for India, if India can build its own carrier and nuclear sub, so we can sure as hell build a advanced ships.

 

[帅的一匹]

Fine, sell your souls to the devil (metaphorically I am NOT calling China the devil!!),but at what cost?

Devil call others devil.

 

[Gessler]

No offence to India but it cannot even hope to start designing a destroyer as advanced as Zumalt class for around another 10-15 years. China already has the technological base to do this.

It is already building the 2nd generation destroyers(Type-052D) equipped with indigenous AESA radars. This will give China a very good base to kick-off design of a next generation stealth class ship and I suspect that they have already started on this project.


I agree that the US overhypes it's technology. It is not as good as they say it is.

Sometimes I do not understand why so many Indians(other Asians too as well) think that US technology is so far ahead that a country like China will never have a chance to match it in the next couple of decades.

Without Ukraine's and French engines/gas turbines, PLAN ships can't even move to and fro.

FYI, the design studies of Trimaran Stealth Ships and narrow-body hull designs were completed years ago in India's MDL. It has already been decided these will be the successor to the P-17 by 2020. I think you should look at how inferior 054A is to P-17 and 052C is to P-15A.

As it is you are bringing in the 052D, so lemme tell you about the P-15B as well. The first ship of the P-15B class has already been launched some months ago, this ship also has indigenous AESA radars (developed in collabiration between state-run DRDO and private company Astra Microwave Ltd.), haven't you heard of our S-band active phased array radar developments for warships? -



^^Ship-based AESAs are under development along the same lines.

Electronics & Radar Development Establishment

And FYI, the P-15B (Indian equivalent to the 052D), will be equipped with the BrahMos-II Hypersonic cruise missiles with a speed of Mach 7 and probably won't even have the range restriction. I don't think PLAN warships are equipped with any kind of defence against this missile ? I'm sure P-15B will be able to carry upwards of 16+ such missiles.



As of the Chinese equivalent of Zumwalt,,,dream on. ,maybe they'll give a couple of 250 such warships to
your Bangla Navy for coastal defense, who knows??

 

[karan21]

@ukbengali I dont know what the hell ur talking about, making claims that make no sence. Indian ships have foreign engines and some electronics. Most armament is either Indian or manufactures under liscence. India is now one of the few nations in the world that make AESA radar. Soon sea based aesa will be ready. DRDO CEntral acquisition active phased array radar is already being installed as the main radar on kamorta class ships. India can design and build such ships no doubt about that. I agree that the electronics in the Indian zumwalt comparable will not be as advanced as the american nor will be the stealth materials. But it will close enough. Something that will an alienship for bangladeshis. After they are spending 35 billion just on R&D for this destroyer.

 

[peep]

@ukbengali I dont know what the hell ur talking about, making claims that make no sence. Indian ships have foreign engines and some electronics. Most armament is either Indian or manufactures under liscence. India is now one of the few nations in the world that make AESA radar. Soon sea based aesa will be ready. DRDO CEntral acquisition active phased array radar is already being installed as the main radar on kamorta class ships. India can design and build such ships no doubt about that. I agree that the electronics in the Indian zumwalt comparable will not be as advanced as the american nor will be the stealth materials. But it will close enough. Something that will an alienship for bangladeshis. After they are spending 35 billion just on R&D for this destroyer.

thei entire bangla naby consists of some heavily armoured fishing trawlers... u expect them to understand what u just said ?

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

^^^ As long as a strong China is benefiting us we will support them.

Do wear your Red Panties, Poor Bengali cheerleader.

No offence to India but it cannot even hope to start designing a destroyer as advanced as Zumalt class for around another 10-15 years. China already has the technological base to do this.

It is already building the 2nd generation destroyers(Type-052D) equipped with indigenous AESA radars. This will give China a very good base to kick-off design of a next generation stealth class ship and I suspect that they have already started on this project.


I agree that the US overhypes it's technology. It is not as good as they say it is.

Sometimes I do not understand why so many Indians(other Asians too as well) think that US technology is so far ahead that a country like China will never have a chance to match it in the next couple of decades.

You are Blinded by hate and Making Fool of yourself here, Think about Your Country 1st, in case it survived for next 15 years. lol
Bay Of Bengal Extn

 

[Pakchina]

@ Martian2

Do you think ships will enquire about each other's country of origin before attacking? If they don't, then your post is BS and useless. As long as it doesn't deliver better performance and is considered a better ship as a whole, %age of foreign components is irrelevent, coz they keep changing and evolving.

As a matter of fact, 054A is inferior to P-17. I don't agree with the part that its EW system and sonar are the only Indian stuff, who builds the hull? Who designs and shapes it, cuts it, moulds it, and who puts together all the stuff into a warship? Indians.

I don't agree with Type-054A being "indigenous" either. A lot of that ship is imported from foreign countries, copied, and produced under a chinese name. (The engine/propulsion of the Type-054A is designed by France). Even the most modern 100mm main gun of Type-052D is a plain copy of French systems. "95% chinese" my foot. Most of the radar systems, EW suites, and bridge systems are nothing but license-built versions of foreign equipment. Why do Chinese copy? Coz they can't design their own. Why do Indians buy? Bcoz of more or less the same reason. End of discussion.

Indians build only warships thanks to full Russian, US, Israeli and EU supports. Then all the systems are from these countries. There is no need to be proud. India can import any weapons and systems it wants from the West. This is not the case for China which has to learn, copy and master all by itself without anyone to advise and support it. Moreover China is subject to strict technological and weapons embargoes. No country can live and develop by being under such strict embargoes. But China has done it. Despite embargoes and bullying from the West it has been able to construct decent and valuable warships. It has even became the number one shipbuilding in the world by constructing containers, now all containers are made by China, it constructs tankers, port cranes and even airport passenger terminals. COSCO is among the the top 5 shipcontainers company in the world. We prefer the sucessful economic and military development of China than that of India which produces only warships with full foreign assistance.

 

[karan21]

Indians build only warships thanks to full Russian, US, Israeli and EU supports. Then all the systems are from these countries. There is no need to be proud. India can import any weapons and systems it wants from the West. This is not the case for China which has to learn, copy and master all by itself without anyone to advise and support it. Moreover China is subject to strict technological and weapons embargoes. No country can live and develop by being under such strict embargoes. But China has done it. Despite embargoes and bullying from the West it has been able to construct decent and valuable warships. It has even became the number one shipbuilding in the world by constructing containers, now all containers are made by China, it constructs tankers, port cranes and even airport passenger terminals. COSCO is among the the top 5 shipcontainers company in the world. We prefer the sucessful economic and military development of China than that of India which produces only warships with full foreign assistance.

Wah yaar kya baat hai. You have such indepth knowledge about the matter. Do you know that engines and radars and almost everything in chinese ships are lescence produced or copied. In indian ships most is indegeneous and some in lescence produced. The guns and rocket launchers and torpedos are all made in India. The ew and sonars are made in India. Engines and electronics need to be Indian made too but it will take time. Indian shipborne AESA is getting ready by Astra mirowave and first phased array radar called the CAR revanti has been fitted on kamorta class subs which is indian made.

We are today are builder navy and 70% indegeneous navy... soon will be over 90%.

Now expain where Pakistan stands in shipbuilding.

 

[peep]

Wah yaar kya baat hai. You have such indepth knowledge about the matter. Do you know that engines and radars and almost everything in chinese ships are lescence produced or copied. In indian ships most is indegeneous and some in lescence produced. The guns and rocket launchers and torpedos are all made in India. The ew and sonars are made in India. Engines and electronics need to be Indian made too but it will take time. Indian shipborne AESA is getting ready by Astra mirowave and first phased array radar called the CAR revanti has been fitted on kamorta class subs which is indian made.

We are today are builder navy and 70% indegeneous navy... soon will be over 90%.

Now expain where Pakistan stands in shipbuilding.

Irrespective of weather we claim the ship is indegineous or not but we never claim a particular component as INDIAN if it is not so...
CHinese on the other hand simply changes the number plate on the missiles and try to pass them off as their own..

Their super duper awesome 100% indigenous 054 D have propulsion systems based on ukranian designs..

It is china which is the largest importer of fighter jet engines in the world inspite of they having F22 beater J20 in their arsenal..

Their HH(Q) 9 SAMs are russian based .. typical ingrates and congenital thief they are it seems...

They keep making fun of Kaveri engine .. but if we ask if they have a similar engine in their pocket of similar weight and thrust configuration, then all they spew out is toilet and '62 spanking..

I don't expect any different reply to this post also..

 

[peep]

Wah yaar kya baat hai. You have such indepth knowledge about the matter. Do you know that engines and radars and almost everything in chinese ships are lescence produced or copied. In indian ships most is indegeneous and some in lescence produced. The guns and rocket launchers and torpedos are all made in India. The ew and sonars are made in India. Engines and electronics need to be Indian made too but it will take time. Indian shipborne AESA is getting ready by Astra mirowave and first phased array radar called the CAR revanti has been fitted on kamorta class subs which is indian made.

We are today are builder navy and 70% indegeneous navy... soon will be over 90%.

Now expain where Pakistan stands in shipbuilding.

Irrespective of weather we claim the ship is indegineous or not but we never claim a particular component as INDIAN if it is not so...
CHinese on the other hand simply changes the number plate on the missiles and try to pass them off as their own..

Their super duper awesome 100% indigenous 054 D have propulsion systems based on ukranian designs..

It is china which is the largest importer of fighter jet engines in the world inspite of they having F22 beater J20 in their arsenal..

Their HH(Q) 9 SAMs are russian based .. typical ingrates and congenital thief they are it seems...

They keep making fun of Kaveri engine .. but if we ask if they have a similar engine in their pocket of similar weight and thrust configuration, then all they spew out is toilet and '62 spanking..

I don't expect any different reply to this post also..

 

[peep]

Wah yaar kya baat hai. You have such indepth knowledge about the matter. Do you know that engines and radars and almost everything in chinese ships are lescence produced or copied. In indian ships most is indegeneous and some in lescence produced. The guns and rocket launchers and torpedos are all made in India. The ew and sonars are made in India. Engines and electronics need to be Indian made too but it will take time. Indian shipborne AESA is getting ready by Astra mirowave and first phased array radar called the CAR revanti has been fitted on kamorta class subs which is indian made.

We are today are builder navy and 70% indegeneous navy... soon will be over 90%.

Now expain where Pakistan stands in shipbuilding.

Irrespective of weather we claim the ship is indegineous or not but we never claim a particular component as INDIAN if it is not so...
CHinese on the other hand simply changes the number plate on the missiles and try to pass them off as their own..

Their super duper awesome 100% indigenous 054 D have propulsion systems based on ukranian designs..

It is china which is the largest importer of fighter jet engines in the world inspite of they having F22 beater J20 in their arsenal..

Their HH(Q) 9 SAMs are russian based .. typical ingrates and congenital thief they are it seems...

They keep making fun of Kaveri engine .. but if we ask if they have a similar engine in their pocket of similar weight and thrust configuration, then all they spew out is toilet and '62 spanking..

I don't expect any different reply to this post also..

 

[RISING SUN]

I want to say few things here whether anyone understands or not.

1st these ships are being built in India by India itself. It's big feet if you can understand its motives & advantages.
2nd Basic design of Project 76 was done by the Navy's Directorate of Naval Design (DND), with a detailed designed developed by MDL.
3rd To overcome the lack of steel supply, DRDO and Steel Authority of India Limited (SAIL) indigenously designed and developed the AB-grade steel required.
4th thing BEL APARNA HUMSA (Hull Mounted Sonar Array) is indigenous.
5th BEL Ajanta electronic warfare suite is indigenous.
6th VLS launched BrahMos, anti-ship cruise missiles is joint ventured product of India-russia.
7th Barak SAM launchers are joint ventured product of India-israel.
8th HAL Dhruv is our indigenous helicopter onboard P17.
9th Fire Control Systems (FCS) developed by DRDO and built by BEL is being used on the Shivalik class frigates.
10th The CODOG gearboxes were designed and built by Elecon Engineering indigenously.
11th Furnishings were manufactured in India by the marine division of Godrej indigenously.
12th The CPP and associated shafting are being supplied by John Crane-LIPS (Netherlands) through their Indian partner, Goa Shipyard Limited (GSL). The LM2500 plant is rated at approximately 18,000 kW (24,000+ hp) and would be assembled by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).
13th The order for the first three ship sets of two 16 PA6 STC engines was placed by MDL to the Pielstick Indian licensee, Kirloskar Oil Engines Ltd. (KOEL) at the beginning of 2000. The first two engines will be manufactured in France by S.E.M.T. Pielstick, while the subsequent engines will be manufactured in India by KOEL in their Nasik engine plant.
15th Steering gear and stabilizers are supplied by Veljan Hydair.
16th The DG sets were assembled at Wartsila Khopoli Plant. All the components of the DG sets are bought-out items. Engines are being procured from Cummins' Pune plant, alternators are from KEC Bangalore plant.
17th Switchboards for the machinery and electrical systems are being supplied by G.E. Power Controls in Bangalore.
18th Larsen & Toubro Engineering provides the helicopter land grid for the vessel.
19th The main gun on the P17 is a 76.2 mm Super Rapid Gun Mount (SRGM) made under license from OTO Melara of Italy.
20th Fire control radar for the SSMs is by a Garpun Bal.
21th One mast mounted Bharat Electronics EON-51 EO director for gunfire control.
22th Electronic warfare (EW) suite is the powerful Ellora system with active jamming capability against multiple threats.
23rd The Kavach decoy launchers are locally designed and built by OFB.
24th Navigation systems comprise two BEL RASHMI (Radar Aid for InSHore and Harbor Manoeuvring in I-band) and three COTS navigation radars.
25th The Combat Management System (CMS-17) is a locally developed system (by WESEE).The architecture of CMS-17 is a major improvement over legacy Indian developed systems
26th A large portion of the communications system, CCS Mk2, is of Indian origin with equipment coming from BEL and elsewhere. A Link 2 datalink is standard equipment.
27th Habitability standards are luxurious to the extent that the modular Godrej- Boyce supplied living quarters are spacious, and heads (washrooms) are very well appointed, much like a boutique hotel.
Indigenization
It is clear that considerable effort has been made to transfer technologies from foreign partners to Indian companies. However, one must take statements regarding the level of indigenization, typically 60-70%, on board the P17 frigates with a grain of salt. In any project of this magnitude, it is helpful to keep in mind that the process of indigenization is a gradual one and is certainly dependent on how one defines 'Indian made equipment'. If one were to adhere to the definition of indigenous equipment as 'designed & made in India', then very little of the equipment would qualify as such.

All in all, this is a very capable warship. It is a generation ahead of extant warships in Indian naval service. It's design also serves as a basis for future surface combatants going forward. It will be more than adequate to counter regional threats and to protect India's vital sea lanes.

Does any on else want to say anything about my country?
Come on. Show me your guts. If Indian are silent that doesn't mean they are weak or whatever you imagine. We are building 100% indigenous but we are also not importing some rag tag ship.
I had a lot of respect for China because of their manufacturing capability,not designing capability. but it seems like their own countrymen don't see it equal ways. If China builds it within its geographical boundary,its indigenous for them & when India does it,they brand it foreign import.
If I am going to call them in bad manner,they don't deserve it at all. This will be bad manner for bad manner itself.
There is a limit to bear.Enough is enough.

 

[arp2041]

I want to say few things here whether anyone understands or not.

1st these ships are being built in India by India itself. It's big feet if you can understand its motives & advantages.
2nd Basic design of Project 76 was done by the Navy's Directorate of Naval Design (DND), with a detailed designed developed by MDL.
3rd To overcome the lack of steel supply, DRDO and Steel Authority of India Limited (SAIL) indigenously designed and developed the AB-grade steel required.
4th thing BEL APARNA HUMSA (Hull Mounted Sonar Array) is indigenous.
5th BEL Ajanta electronic warfare suite is indigenous.
6th VLS launched BrahMos, anti-ship cruise missiles is joint ventured product of India-russia.
7th Barak SAM launchers are joint ventured product of India-israel.
8th HAL Dhruv is our indigenous helicopter onboard P17.
9th Fire Control Systems (FCS) developed by DRDO and built by BEL is being used on the Shivalik class frigates.
10th The CODOG gearboxes were designed and built by Elecon Engineering indigenously.
11th Furnishings were manufactured in India by the marine division of Godrej indigenously.
12th The CPP and associated shafting are being supplied by John Crane-LIPS (Netherlands) through their Indian partner, Goa Shipyard Limited (GSL). The LM2500 plant is rated at approximately 18,000 kW (24,000+ hp) and would be assembled by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).
13th The order for the first three ship sets of two 16 PA6 STC engines was placed by MDL to the Pielstick Indian licensee, Kirloskar Oil Engines Ltd. (KOEL) at the beginning of 2000. The first two engines will be manufactured in France by S.E.M.T. Pielstick, while the subsequent engines will be manufactured in India by KOEL in their Nasik engine plant.
15th Steering gear and stabilizers are supplied by Veljan Hydair.
16th The DG sets were assembled at Wartsila Khopoli Plant. All the components of the DG sets are bought-out items. Engines are being procured from Cummins' Pune plant, alternators are from KEC Bangalore plant.
17th Switchboards for the machinery and electrical systems are being supplied by G.E. Power Controls in Bangalore.
18th Larsen & Toubro Engineering provides the helicopter land grid for the vessel.
19th The main gun on the P17 is a 76.2 mm Super Rapid Gun Mount (SRGM) made under license from OTO Melara of Italy.
20th Fire control radar for the SSMs is by a Garpun Bal.
21th One mast mounted Bharat Electronics EON-51 EO director for gunfire control.
22th Electronic warfare (EW) suite is the powerful Ellora system with active jamming capability against multiple threats.
23rd The Kavach decoy launchers are locally designed and built by OFB.
24th Navigation systems comprise two BEL RASHMI (Radar Aid for InSHore and Harbor Manoeuvring in I-band) and three COTS navigation radars.
25th The Combat Management System (CMS-17) is a locally developed system (by WESEE).The architecture of CMS-17 is a major improvement over legacy Indian developed systems
26th A large portion of the communications system, CCS Mk2, is of Indian origin with equipment coming from BEL and elsewhere. A Link 2 datalink is standard equipment.
27th Habitability standards are luxurious to the extent that the modular Godrej- Boyce supplied living quarters are spacious, and heads (washrooms) are very well appointed, much like a boutique hotel.
Indigenization
It is clear that considerable effort has been made to transfer technologies from foreign partners to Indian companies. However, one must take statements regarding the level of indigenization, typically 60-70%, on board the P17 frigates with a grain of salt. In any project of this magnitude, it is helpful to keep in mind that the process of indigenization is a gradual one and is certainly dependent on how one defines 'Indian made equipment'. If one were to adhere to the definition of indigenous equipment as 'designed & made in India', then very little of the equipment would qualify as such.

All in all, this is a very capable warship. It is a generation ahead of extant warships in Indian naval service. It's design also serves as a basis for future surface combatants going forward. It will be more than adequate to counter regional threats and to protect India's vital sea lanes.

Does any on else want to say anything about my country?
Come on. Show me your guts. If Indian are silent that doesn't mean they are weak or whatever you imagine. We are building 100% indigenous but we are also not importing some rag tag ship.
I had a lot of respect for China because of their manufacturing capability,not designing capability. but it seems like their own countrymen don't see it equal ways. If China builds it within its geographical boundary,its indigenous for them & when India does it,they brand it foreign import.
If I am going to call them in bad manner,they don't deserve it at all. This will be bad manner for bad manner itself.
There is a limit to bear.Enough is enough.

There is no place/no need of emotions here mate, we are here for a sound discussion, let them criticize India & Indian products or whatever they want. I often remember a dialogue of movie Guru - "jab log tumhare khilaf bolne lage samj lo taraki kar rahe ho"