Overseas Pakistanis will not vote in next elections!!

[Elmo]

Hey after all they are the ones left that try to make Pakistan a better image in the globe. Those living in Pakistan who think we are enjoying and partying in West are making a big mistake making these kinds of assumptions. They need to go and look around themselves first. Give me an example of country that thinks it normal to have maids, drivers, and chefs in households? I'm going to make this clear. There is so much disparity between the rich and the poor. Voting is one thing and social issues is another, which in my view should be the first thing that needs to be solved.

No, they left Pakistan so they could make a better life for themselves first. Nobody leaves Pakistan to promote its better image... please. Wake up.

And that's what I am saying... come back and work on the social issues. Bring the "enlightened" thought back. Create opportunities here.

Fact: Pakistan would be in a worse state if remittances didn't occur, there are thousands of benefits. If we weren't patriotic why would we send money back home, invest etc.

99.9% of all overseas Pakistanis (dual nationals and migrants) wish to return to their homeland and not stay abroad. The vast majority are abroad due to the situation in Pakistan rampant unemployment, inflation, no rule of law etc

Do you really think we would want to stay abroad if such issues were curtailed, in the next 20-30 years you will see a large amount expats returning to Pakistan as the situation improves. I bet my life on it that expats would be more willing to die for Pakistan than you so called TRUE NATIVE PAKISTANIS who think we are 2nd class citizens. Its exactly your mindset and backward thinking that isn't allowing Pakistan to develop as a nation, if you don't want us to vote then those with your mindset should quit moaning of why Pakistan is going down the drain.

Who called you a second-class citizen?

Well, why not come back and change the situation so that no one else has to leave? Why should others change it for you?

If you are not willing to live in Pakistan, and show that Pakistanis are not the fundos who were out on the streets last Friday... then you have no right to moan about Pakistan going down the drain either!

Those people live here... let them burn and do whatever they want to. Why are you concerned or bothered?

Making voters travel back to the country is merely a way to disenfranchise voters.

Or make the annual holiday back home when it's time for the elections, makes perfect sense. It's another thing for those who are no longer registered as official citizens of Pakistan...

 

[hunter_hunted]

Actually I agree with not letting overseas Pakistanis vote, but not due to resource constraints but because of the flaw behind the logic.

Before anyone spouts how "remittances" work, I feel that those who are dual nationality holders and have not returned to Pakistan and have no plans to do so in the immediate future should have no say in how and who the nation should be run by.

Their voice counts for nothing.

Pakistanis who are staying in Pakistan would be better off without the higher moral ground that expats seem to take. The
"I am more patriotic living in the US/UK/wherever than you living in Pakistan" is so darn annoying. These same people would pay taxes to the country where they are working, but do nothing in turn for Pakistan. And the little they do, they will make sure they make it seem so earth shattering and ground breaking - when it won't be.

Just one thing ELMO what about the rest of People like me who still have and will hold to Pakistani citizen till our End. Can't we vote from outside of Pakistan. Ur logic is good for Dual Nationality Holders I AGREE.

 

[VCheng]

Wese there is a darkside to all this too...

Konsa national treasury main daal rahay hain, the intent is to send it to your maan, behn, bhai. My father did all that, the next generation - like me - who does not have a dependent in Pakistan is not doing that.

So over time we are left with going back to Pak and spending during vacations, the odd Zakat, and perhaps a few other things.

Also the ones that send through Hawala/Hundi are more of a problem than a benefit.

Actually, these foreign remittances directly register into the hard currency reserves of the nation, and help the balance of payments immensely.

 

[Leviza]

People are mixing few important things here,

1- Dual Nationals - should not be allowed to any public position in Pakistan, i 100% agree with this, i am a Pakistani- British national as well.
2- Dual Nationality is not a crime, its allowed.
3- Overseas Pakistani without dual nationality. when ever they go back to Pakistan they can take any public position.
4- All these people love Pakistan, dual nationals too but we cant give them public position as there might be conflicts which they are not suitable to address being citizen of 2 nations.
5- Overseas Pakistani are equal to people living in Pakistan, they have families in Pakistan and they support them so there is not a big difference if one person is out of country.

 

[Last Hope]

There are so many Pakistanis living abroad especially West that they don't even wanna give a damn about Pakistan so they sholdn't even have a right cuz they always support western hegemony.......

Not all, not even half. But the ones who do are strong haters of their parents' heritage.

 

[ashley.1965]

Why should overseas Pakistanis be accommodated?

As citizens of the country, they have a constitutional right, that is why.

Are they living in Pakistan?

By definition, someone residing "overseas" is not living in their home country. But you knew that, right? *sarcasm*

Are they paying taxes to the Pakistani government?

Pakistan has dual taxation treaties with several countries (look it up on Google). This means that if you pay tax in one country, you do not have to double your tax burden by paying the country of your citizenship as well. Most civilised countries have these rules. Example: Canada and UK have such a treaty - you can be a British citizen working in Canada, paying Canadian taxes, and be therefore exempt from paying UK taxes. The British then do not go on to insist that this deprives you of your right to vote in UK elections!

In addition, for citizens living in Pakistan itself, the country has one of the world's lowest tax-to-GDP ratios. See this:
keynesianspirits (***) wordpress (***) com/2011/12/29/how-can-tax-collection-in-pakistan-be-increased/

By your logic, those living in Pakistan, and not contributing to the exchequer should also not be eligible to "be accommodated". See where this is going?

What right do they have to decide the fate of Pakistan and choose the leaders when they are living in another country?

If (1) they are citizens and (2) they have enough of a stake in Pakistan and its future that they are bothered to indulge in the purely voluntary exercise of voting, then they have both a legal and a moral right to do so.

 

[ashley.1965]

Thats why i know all too well how successfully we as Muslims and Pakistanis have been defamed and demonized abroad and Pakistan as a country needs Patriotic Pakistanis "Abroad" to countereffect this media imposed Hypnosis on the people of the world...
I am on Blood Donors register and regularly donate Blood "while wearing Shalwar Qameez",and that always has a positive effect on people who see me doing that...and the effect of what i do goes all the way to Pakistan..
This is not something i coulod have done while staying in Pakistan,and thats just one example.

Thanks for that heart-warming story! There are many, many more like it - maybe we should have a separate thread about it too.

I personally know of the following:

- Pakistani professors in UK universities, who insist on being called "Pakistani" even if they become UK dual citizens. When they publish papers in international conferences, they enrol as Pakistanis, not as Britons.

Abdus Salaam, our Nobel laureate, lived the final years of his life in England, and even had a British (white) second wife. But he picked up his Nobel Prize dressed as a Pakistani. (Trolls: Take your "Pakistan mistreats Ahmadis" junk elsewhere)

- Pakistani Muslims who organise outreach events in their local neighbourhoods. This is a very common phenomenon all across the Western world. Non-Muslims get invited to mosques to get a first-hand look at what goes on in there. The majority of visitors walk away with positive opinions - some are even known to say "Oh, we thought you guys were doing terror training in there. But you're just like the rest of us!!"

Anybody know of any others? Please do post...

Meanwhile, all you anti-dual nationality types need to appreciate that us dual nationals are one of Pakistan's most potent tools for projecting soft power.

 

[VCheng]

................
Meanwhile, all you anti-dual nationality types need to appreciate that us dual nationals are one of Pakistan's most potent tools for projecting soft power.

It takes a certain modicum of awareness to realize the importance of soft power, including the things you mentioned in your post.

 

[Zibago]

most of overseas Pakistanis live in the gulf states they are not dual national they are just migrant workers

 

[ashley.1965]

there are thousands of benefits. If we weren't patriotic why would we send money back home, invest etc.

It isn't merely about sending money back. Dual national businessmen of Pakistani origin, based on first hand knowledge, tend to involve Pakistan in their business ventures, and see it as a moral and patriotic duty to do so. I know of several who source their goods from Pakistan, or set up Pakistani branches of their overseas businesses. Or how about the 2010 floods - some of us, and this includes professionals and bankers, took time off to come to Pakistan from other continents and helped out in villages as volunteers.

Do you really think we would want to stay abroad if such issues were curtailed, in the next 20-30 years you will see a large amount expats returning to Pakistan as the situation improves. I bet my life on it that expats would be more willing to die for Pakistan than you so called TRUE NATIVE PAKISTANIS who think we are 2nd class citizens.

Very perceptive - people who oppose dual nationality should talk to ordinary dual nationals about their true feelings for Pakistan, and not consider all of us to be Hussain Haqqani or Rehman Malik clones!

Anecdotal evidence: during the Abbotabad raid, several overseas Pakistanis I know were willing to return to help Pakistan in case the crisis had escalated.

 

[VCheng]

.................... info on how many Pakistanis are settled in the US and then see their contribution in the remittance pie................

Actually, only 9% of Pakistani expats are in North America but contribute 22% of the overall remittances to Pakistan, whereas 73% of the expats in Asia contribute only 43% to the overall pie:


Remit2 by vcheng552000, on Flickr

In addition, the rise in remittances has help the balance of payment of the country immensely:


Remit1 by vcheng552000, on Flickr

 

[Awesome]

Actually, only 9% of Pakistani expats are in North America but contribute 22% of the overall remittances to Pakistan, whereas 73% of the expats in Asia contribute only 43% to the overall pie:


Remit2 by vcheng552000, on Flickr

In addition, the rise in remittances has help the balance of payment of the country immensely:


Remit1 by vcheng552000, on Flickr

How about how much of their income they contribute? .

A mazdoor who earns AED 500/mo and contributes AED 400 to his family at home DOES make a bigger sacrifice. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's contribution or come off my area contributes more - I personally don't have any regular monthly contributions as I don't have a need to... But there is no doubt the backbone of this is the hard sweat of the mazdoor class working overseas.

Who lets face it are not outside for ayashi, but they have been nominated as a work mule for their families and they really do send almost all their income back home as they live in labor camps and get food daily and a few sets of uniforms.

Actually, these foreign remittances directly register into the hard currency reserves of the nation, and help the balance of payments immensely.

There is value in that to the country, but I was pointing out that the intent is to feed your own family.

 

[VCheng]

How about how much of their income they contribute? ..............

That is a different question entirely, but the numbers suggest that NA expat contribute over 4 times more per capita than ME expats, and I imagine this is fairly similar in proportion to the average incomes between these groups.

There is value in that to the country, but I was pointing out that the intent is to feed your own family.

Isn't that the goal of any wage earner, whether local or abroad? Local earnings help by direct and indirect taxes, and foreign earnings help with the balance of payments by contributing hard currencies, in addition to the taxes generated. Their ultimate use to help feed the family is similar in the end for both, isn't it?

 

[Awesome]

Meanwhile, all you anti-dual nationality types need to appreciate that us dual nationals are one of Pakistan's most potent tools for projecting soft power.

Think about it this way, that it takes only ONE person to mess it up.

There are many companies that demand that you not work anywhere else, while you are employed by them because your motivation or loyalties will be divided.

America pays you more, treats you better, helps your children go to school... Now America goes to war and calls upon you to fight Pakistan. Pakistan calls upon you to fight America.

Since both countries have a draft system, you must comply.

Who do you choose?

To avoid this risk one must belong to only one country. You can still keep helping Pakistan out as an only American citizen, thats up to you, no one would stop you but at least you can't enjoy equal parity with a guy who will ONLY fight for Pakistan and does not have their loyalties divided - at least on paper.

 

[Don Jaguar]

That is a different question entirely, but the numbers suggest that NA expat contribute over 4 times more per capita than ME expats, and I imagine this is fairly similar in proportion to the average incomes between these groups.





Isn't that the goal of any wage earner, whether local or abroad? Local earnings help by direct and indirect taxes, and foreign earnings help with the balance of payments by contributing hard currencies, in addition to the taxes generated. Their ultimate use to help feed the family is similar in the end for both, isn't it?

VCheng what is your age dude?