Overseas Pakistanis to pay tax on all their mobile phones

[Trango Towers]

I see people buy used phones in UK because they are affordable..price of phone get decrease sharply in UK after few months of releases..they still pay VAT snd others taxes as per local laws. I don't think its big deal if overseas Pakistani gift his used phones to his relatives in Pakistan. Now this will be useless because they will pay more taxes than actual price of used phones

The UK pakis also commit fraud by buying a contract phone and then giving it in pakistan and claiming insurance. This is a big big scam

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

I paid VAT on my motorbike and when I ride to Pakistan I will have to pay either Pak customs duty and GST at entry or take Carnet.

That's how it is everywhere except within EU. After Brexit that will change.

Pakistani visitors to UK can buy tax free products as long as they pay £5 for Tax reclaim form from each shop then they will get that refund at the UK airports on exit. That way only Pakistani passport holders can avoid being double taxed.

As a visitor to Pakistan on British passport, you will have 60 days anyways so why moan?

Its unfair practices because every country allow two tax free phones for personal use .

The UK pakis also commit fraud by buying a contract phone and then giving it in pakistan and claiming insurance. This is a big big scam

Yes but you also have vast majority of people who also pay bills for 24 months and keep same phone without claiming any insurance

 

[Verve]

Its unfair practices because every country allow two tax free phones for personal use .

'Every country' - list of these countries please.

Every country makes tax rules according to their own requirements. I used to take 3-4 mobiles to Pakistan every year to gift and I don't have issues with this new taxing system - I'll take different gifts. Heck, I paid a lot of duty on my personal belongings when I moved back too, because I didn't take the letter from High Commission stating my move was a relocation.

When I moved to Hong Kong, I paid zero tax on my belongings. When I moved to UK I paid taxes. It varies by country so to say what's fair and what's not by comparing countries is invalid.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

'Every country' - list of these countries please.

Every country makes tax rules according to their own requirements. I used to take 3-4 mobiles to Pakistan every year to gift and I don't have issues with this new taxing system - I'll take different gifts. Heck, I paid a lot of duty on my personal belongings when I moved back too, because I didn't take the letter from High Commission stating my move was a relocation.

When I moved to Hong Kong, I paid zero tax on my belongings. When I moved to UK I paid taxes. It varies by country so to say what's fair and what's not by comparing countries is invalid.

You are comparing apple with oranges. Discussion is about mobile phones. Tell me a single country which ask you to pay import taxes on your personal mobile phone irrespective of where it was purchased.

 

[Verve]

You are comparing apple with oranges. Discussion is about mobile phones. Tell me a single country which ask you to pay import taxes on your personal mobile phone irrespective of where it was purchased.

You made that claim of 'every country' so name those instead of asking me. Give proof of your claim.

Let me bust your claim!

https://www.gov.uk/duty-free-goods/arrivals-from-outside-the-eu

This does not include personal mobile phones bought outside EU.

Now you are a UK resident, find me any official customs notification saying that mobile phones bought overseas are exempt from Duty and VAT?

Just because they don't enforce it doesn't mean that they can't charge duty and VAT on personal phones. There is absolutely no exemption on personal mobile phones.

So please next time do a little bit of thinking and search before posting total hogwash.

 

[Desert Fox]

The Federal Board of Revenue has made a change in the personal baggage rules and as a result of that, overseas Pakistanis will now have to pay tax on every mobile phone they bring to the country.

Yes, you guessed that right. This is applicable even on your first or personal mobile phone, which was supposed to be exempt from Customs duties previously. The only exception is roaming. That is you don’t have to register your phone with the PTA nor pay any duty as long as you use your international SIM card and are on roaming. However, if you put local SIM into your mobile, you will have to register within 60 days.



The new rule, which came into effect on July 1, went largely unnoticed as only a small section of the press reported this development.

This change also explains why overseas Pakistanis, who had to pay tax after registering their first and only device with the PTA, have been expressing their frustration about this on social media. This is double taxation, they say, referring to their purchases on which they already pay taxes abroad.

Related: Customs to charge people for carrying extra mobile phones to Pakistan

Under the previous policy, overseas Pakistanis were allowed to bring one phone to Pakistan without paying any duties under the Personal Baggage Rule, but this exemption was removed following reports of misuse of the scheme. There were reports of people stealing passengers’ data to register imported phones so they could avoid paying taxes. This was happening at a large scale and was also reported by subscribers of SAMAA Digital on its social media pages.

To stop the misuse of this scheme, the government removed the exemption, a move that didn’t go down well with the overseas Pakistanis, who criticised it. Instead of stopping data theft, the government has deprived expats of this facility, they say.

The FBR couldn’t be reached for a comment, but an official familiar with the matter told SAMAA Digital that several arrests have been made in this regard in Karachi and Lahore. Immigration, travel agents and airlines all have passengers data. Who leaks data is difficult to find, he said. What items should be allowed under this scheme is the prerogative of the government, he added.

Overseas Pakistanis can still bring five phones per the calendar year, but now they have to pay duties on each.

By changing the rule, the government has closed another door for importers and traders of smuggled phones. The import of smuggled mobiles is in hundreds of thousands, which cost the government a lot as no taxes are paid on these mobile phones. All this at a time when the government is running a massive budget deficit (more than Rs3,000 billion) because of a low tax base– smuggled goods are one of the reasons for low tax revenue.

Related: Overseas Pakistanis must pay duty on extra mobile phones: Fawad Chaudhry

To deal with this, the PTA and the FBR warned traders and buyers that they would block all smuggled phones that weren’t registered by January 15. The government ran an awareness campaign for months, asking consumers already in possession of such phones to register their devices before the deadline. The PTA says it didn’t block their phones nor charge any tax. However, people owning any phones that were bought or switched on after this deadline were given two months to register and pay taxes and were blocked if they failed to comply.

Mass blocking of smuggled phones by the PTA led to panic among both traders and consumers. Traders started negotiations with the FBR but could not reach any agreement. Last week, traders of mobile phones went on a shutter down strike in protest.

On this issue, SAMAA Digital asked the traders to clarify some queries.

Disputed tax rates, who to believe?

The FBR chairperson wants tax worth Rs20,000 to be imposed on a device, traders, however, say they should be charged no more than Rs400. Here is one possible explanation for that: the FBR system generates tax payment receipt electronically by using your device’s international mobile equipment identity (IMEI). In case of a smuggled phone, the IMEI number can be fake or modified. For example, you may have bought a Rs4,000 phone but the IMEI number it carries is of Samsung Note 7. The system will generate tax receipt based on the IMEI number and assume it is Note 9 thus you may end up paying Rs40,000 or even higher tax on your handset.

Talking about this issue, Muhammad Rizwan, who is the president of Karachi Electronics Dealers Association, the body representing mobile phone traders on the discussion forum, said the government can block such IMEIs, but they should consider devices with a genuine IMEI number because it is not necessary that it is tampered with in all smuggled devices. A genuine IMEI number can be verified on the Global System for Mobile Communications’ (GSMA) website.

You (traders) don’t seem to pay due taxes as evident from the statement of FBR chairperson. Is this true?

“This is not correct,” Rizwan said.

He explained that the traders Rs400 demand was for a device worth Rs2,000, and not for the ones that cost Rs20,000 as stated by the FBR chairperson. “We want to pay tax and come under the tax net,” he said.

Why haven’t you stopped selling smuggled phones?

This was the job of Customs to stop smuggling. If they did it, traders would automatically shift to legal imports, he claimed.

Secondly, they have been blocking mobile devices based on the January 15 deadline, but the related SRO (government directive) was issued in May, which doesn’t make sense, Rizwan said. If they issued the directive earlier, it would’ve saved all of us from the mess we are in. About half of our shops are shut already and many people have lost their jobs.

Why sell smuggled phones in the first place?

They are cheap and people can’t afford to pay Rs40,000 for a reliable smartphone, but they are happy to buy the second-hand (used) version of the same phone for Rs15,000, Rizwan explained. As per traders’ estimates, 80% users in the market like to buy a second-hand phone.

There are no two opinions about the unlimited benefits of smartphone technology. By taxing these devices, you make them expensive thus deprive the poor of using the latest technology. Besides, we are open to paying taxes and want to come under the tax net, he said.

What to do with the blocked phones?

The people whose mobile phones have been blocked can get it unblocked online at PTA’s website or by visiting either PTA or FBR offices. Both these options are available for those physically present in Pakistan.

What to do if you want to buy a used/smuggled phone?

Before making the payment, check the device’s IMEI number and send it to 8484. If its status is PTA comply, buy it. If it shows non-compliant, you have two options: don’t buy or check the amount of tax you will need to pay after purchasing it.

You can register the device at PTA’s website and the system will generate a tax slip, this will tell you how much you pay in total.

Follow SAMAA English on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

Overseas Pakistanis have no problem helping the motherland in fact they are some of the most patriotic Pakistanis who want to utilize the skills they have learned to help their motherland developed and succeed. But what shoots down their hope's is the amount of corruption, theft and deception they face when they bring their wealth back home to do good for their country at the hands of their own fellow countrymen.

 

[The Accountant]

Overseas Pakistani are complaining about double taxation . You pay taxes in country where you purchase your phones i.e we pay 20% VAT in UK when buy mobile phone in here. Others pay sales taxes in middle east when purchase phone from there.

If we go to Pakistan then they are asking us to pay taxes again even on used mobile phones and taxes will be as per value of brand new phone in Pakistan. Same tax for brand new or used phone. Condition dont matter. It dont matter if its for personal use or commercial. It dont matter if taxes already been paid in countries where overseas Pakistani are coming from.

I also purchased few mobile phones in Pakistan for personal use and has not paid any tax or import charges in UK. Watch video in previous post to see the stupidity of PTA and FBR and how this also affecting local mobile market and consumers

Dont you think its unjustified to pay taxes to UK but use services and infrastructure of Pakistan?

If you are paying taxes of particular location you can use it in that particular location. By the way nobody is stopping you to keep your phone. Government of pakistan is denying from the Pakistani infrastructure for which we Pakistani paid tax to those foreigners who are not paying Pakistani tax.

Its simple. If you want to use services in Pakistan pay them

 

[LeGenD]

Real problem is for the people who bought a (used) mobile at a much lower cost than new; these people will also have to pay tax of new.

Many in Pakistan live in poverty; PTI-led GOP expect these people to pay heavy taxes for even (used) mobiles if not PTA-approved?

Taxes should be applied systematically and calculatively. Blanket imposition of taxes will frustrate many and fuel voices against PTI.

Overseas Pakistani do not get it. These people look at things through the prism of dynamics in developed countries.

I pay X amount of taxes in UK, you should too. Nevermind if you have a decent living in Pakistan or not. You can go to hell otherwise...

 

[Crusher]

Talking about this issue, Muhammad Rizwan, who is the president of Karachi Electronics Dealers Association,.......................

Why haven’t you stopped selling smuggled phones?

This was the job of Customs to stop smuggling. If they did it, traders would automatically shift to legal imports, he claimed. ............................

Why sell smuggled phones in the first place?

They are cheap and people can’t afford to pay Rs40,000 for a reliable smartphone, but they are happy to buy the second-hand (used) version of the same phone for Rs15,000, Rizwan explained.

The underlined text sums up the the criminal/fraudulent mindset of this so-called "president of karachi electronics dealers association", this POS when asked why don't you stop selling the smuggled iilegal phones is saying that "it is job of customs to stop smuggling", this thick head POS should be subjected to severe chhitrol in a police station to recondition his brain that every citizen of this country has equal responsibility/duty to avoid trading illegal/smuggled products, but he thinks it is "only the duty of customs" and not his as if he lives on Mars rather than Pakistan and the laws against trade of smuggled/illegal products don't apply on him. Such criminal minded POS are heading the traders associations in Pakistan, it is such a pity.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

You made that claim of 'every country' so name those instead of asking me. Give proof of your claim.

Let me bust your claim!

https://www.gov.uk/duty-free-goods/arrivals-from-outside-the-eu

This does not include personal mobile phones bought outside EU.

Now you are a UK resident, find me any official customs notification saying that mobile phones bought overseas are exempt from Duty and VAT?

Just because they don't enforce it doesn't mean that they can't charge duty and VAT on personal phones. There is absolutely no exemption on personal mobile phones.

So please next time do a little bit of thinking and search before posting total hogwash.

You have no clue what you are talking about lol Personal electronics ( mobile phone either 1 or 2 obviously they would not be sealed or brand new, one laptop/tablet) are exempt from duty/import charges and come under personal baggage allowance and its true for most countries and same rule applied to Pakistan before this stupid change brought to you by naya Pakistan. No country will block personal phones of international travellers after 60 days if they put local sims in it.. People coming to UK from Pakistan/Australia/USA dont pay any taxes on their personal phones in UK no matter where they were purchased. They will pay duty only if they are bringing large quantity for selling to make some profits . Use your common sense and share your experience instead of using google

Dont you think its unjustified to pay taxes to UK but use services and infrastructure of Pakistan?

If you are paying taxes of particular location you can use it in that particular location. By the way nobody is stopping you to keep your phone. Government of pakistan is denying from the Pakistani infrastructure for which we Pakistani paid tax to those foreigners who are not paying Pakistani tax.
Its simple. If you want to use services in Pakistan pay them

What services ? I told you that I purchased many electronics from Pakistan for personal use and went to UK and they did not ask me to pay taxes on them again when already been paid in Pakistan. Same rule should be applied for electronics bought from outside Pakistan for personal use. Every country charge you some sort of sales taxes when you purchase phone/laptop/tablet. You should not pay these taxes twice . When you are using Pakistani sim then you pay for it. You pay for sim and they deduct indirect taxes from your balance when you top up your phones so you pay for those services which you buy in Pakistan

Real problem is for the people who bought a (used) mobile at a much lower cost than new; these people will also have to pay tax of new.

Many in Pakistan live in poverty; PTI-led GOP expect these people to pay heavy taxes for even (used) mobiles if not PTA-approved?

Taxes should be applied systematically and calculatively. Blanket imposition of taxes will frustrate many and fuel voices against PTI.

Overseas Pakistani do not get it. These people look at things through the prism of dynamics in developed countries.

I pay X amount of taxes in UK, you should too. Nevermind if you have a decent living in Pakistan or not. You can go to hell otherwise...

Yes they dont differentiate between used and brand new phone and they have just one flat rate for phones fall in different price category .Phone just like others electronics lose their value over time. Amount of taxes could be higher than price paid for used mobile phone lol There is no clarity about taxes either i.e who will determine the price range of smart phones ..also they charge duty based om IMEI number so if you are using old nokia but your imei suggest that you are using iPhone then you are going to pay duty as per value of iPhone ..easy to temper IMEI these days

 

[The Accountant]

You have no clue what you are talking about lol Personal electronics ( mobile phone either 1 or 2 obviously they would not be sealed or brand new, one laptop/tablet) are exempt from duty/import charges and come under personal baggage allowance and its true for most countries and same rule applied to Pakistan before this stupid change brought to you by naya Pakistan. No country will block personal phones of international travellers after 60 days if they put local sims in it.. People coming to UK from Pakistan/Australia/USA dont pay any taxes on their personal phones in UK no matter where they were purchased. They will pay duty only if they are bringing large quantity for selling to make some profits . Use your common sense and share your experience instead of using google


What services ? I told you that I purchased many electronics from Pakistan for personal use and went to UK and they did not ask me to pay taxes on them again when already been paid in Pakistan. Same rule should be applied for electronics bought from outside Pakistan for personal use. Every country charge you some sort of sales taxes when you purchase phone/laptop/tablet. You should not pay these taxes twice . When you are using Pakistani sim then you pay for it. You pay for sim and they deduct indirect taxes from your balance when you top up your phones so you pay for those services which you buy in Pakistan


Yes they dont differentiate between used and brand new phone and they have just one flat rate for phones fall in different price category .Phone just like others electronics lose their value over time. Amount of taxes could be higher than price paid for used mobile phone lol There is no clarity about taxes either i.e who will determine the price range of smart phones ..also they charge duty based om IMEI number so if you are using old nokia but your imei suggest that you are using iPhone then you are going to pay duty as per value of iPhone ..easy to temper IMEI these days

Man if u r living in UK why u want to bring your UK phone into Pakistan ? R u in business of smugling as most of the people hurt through this tax r smuglers

 

[Crusher]

Man if u r living in UK why u want to bring your UK phone into Pakistan ? R u in business of smugling as most of the people hurt through this tax r smuglers

One can just buy a cheap mobile phone after arriving in Pakistan to use it during one's stay inside Pakistan or just ask one of your relatives to keep a mobile phone ready for you after you come out of the airport.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Man if u r living in UK why u want to bring your UK phone into Pakistan ? R u in business of smugling as most of the people hurt through this tax r smuglers

Mobile is necessity these days. You need to contact families when you are at airport whther arriving or departing form one country to another. Yes I will become super rich by smuggling one personal mobile lol Your logic as as stupid as those who are working in FBR....instead of stopping genuine data theft and smuggling they are simply targeting averge consumers with one or two mobile for personal use ..read the comments of some people in here then you will know whats going on

https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/07/overseas-pakistanis-to-now-pay-tax-on-all-their-mobile-phones/

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The Federal Board of Revenue has made a change in the personal baggage rules and as a result of that, overseas Pakistanis will now have to pay tax on every mobile phone they bring to the country.

Yes, you guessed that right. This is applicable even on your first or personal mobile phone, which was supposed to be exempt from Customs duties previously. The only exception is roaming. That is you don’t have to register your phone with the PTA nor pay any duty as long as you use your international SIM card and are on roaming. However, if you put local SIM into your mobile, you will have to register within 60 days.



The new rule, which came into effect on July 1, went largely unnoticed as only a small section of the press reported this development.

This change also explains why overseas Pakistanis, who had to pay tax after registering their first and only device with the PTA, have been expressing their frustration about this on social media. This is double taxation, they say, referring to their purchases on which they already pay taxes abroad.

Related: Customs to charge people for carrying extra mobile phones to Pakistan

Under the previous policy, overseas Pakistanis were allowed to bring one phone to Pakistan without paying any duties under the Personal Baggage Rule, but this exemption was removed following reports of misuse of the scheme. There were reports of people stealing passengers’ data to register imported phones so they could avoid paying taxes. This was happening at a large scale and was also reported by subscribers of SAMAA Digital on its social media pages.

To stop the misuse of this scheme, the government removed the exemption, a move that didn’t go down well with the overseas Pakistanis, who criticised it. Instead of stopping data theft, the government has deprived expats of this facility, they say.

The FBR couldn’t be reached for a comment, but an official familiar with the matter told SAMAA Digital that several arrests have been made in this regard in Karachi and Lahore. Immigration, travel agents and airlines all have passengers data. Who leaks data is difficult to find, he said. What items should be allowed under this scheme is the prerogative of the government, he added.

Overseas Pakistanis can still bring five phones per the calendar year, but now they have to pay duties on each.

By changing the rule, the government has closed another door for importers and traders of smuggled phones. The import of smuggled mobiles is in hundreds of thousands, which cost the government a lot as no taxes are paid on these mobile phones. All this at a time when the government is running a massive budget deficit (more than Rs3,000 billion) because of a low tax base– smuggled goods are one of the reasons for low tax revenue.

Related: Overseas Pakistanis must pay duty on extra mobile phones: Fawad Chaudhry

To deal with this, the PTA and the FBR warned traders and buyers that they would block all smuggled phones that weren’t registered by January 15. The government ran an awareness campaign for months, asking consumers already in possession of such phones to register their devices before the deadline. The PTA says it didn’t block their phones nor charge any tax. However, people owning any phones that were bought or switched on after this deadline were given two months to register and pay taxes and were blocked if they failed to comply.

Mass blocking of smuggled phones by the PTA led to panic among both traders and consumers. Traders started negotiations with the FBR but could not reach any agreement. Last week, traders of mobile phones went on a shutter down strike in protest.

On this issue, SAMAA Digital asked the traders to clarify some queries.

Disputed tax rates, who to believe?

The FBR chairperson wants tax worth Rs20,000 to be imposed on a device, traders, however, say they should be charged no more than Rs400. Here is one possible explanation for that: the FBR system generates tax payment receipt electronically by using your device’s international mobile equipment identity (IMEI). In case of a smuggled phone, the IMEI number can be fake or modified. For example, you may have bought a Rs4,000 phone but the IMEI number it carries is of Samsung Note 7. The system will generate tax receipt based on the IMEI number and assume it is Note 9 thus you may end up paying Rs40,000 or even higher tax on your handset.

Talking about this issue, Muhammad Rizwan, who is the president of Karachi Electronics Dealers Association, the body representing mobile phone traders on the discussion forum, said the government can block such IMEIs, but they should consider devices with a genuine IMEI number because it is not necessary that it is tampered with in all smuggled devices. A genuine IMEI number can be verified on the Global System for Mobile Communications’ (GSMA) website.

You (traders) don’t seem to pay due taxes as evident from the statement of FBR chairperson. Is this true?

“This is not correct,” Rizwan said.

He explained that the traders Rs400 demand was for a device worth Rs2,000, and not for the ones that cost Rs20,000 as stated by the FBR chairperson. “We want to pay tax and come under the tax net,” he said.

Why haven’t you stopped selling smuggled phones?

This was the job of Customs to stop smuggling. If they did it, traders would automatically shift to legal imports, he claimed.

Secondly, they have been blocking mobile devices based on the January 15 deadline, but the related SRO (government directive) was issued in May, which doesn’t make sense, Rizwan said. If they issued the directive earlier, it would’ve saved all of us from the mess we are in. About half of our shops are shut already and many people have lost their jobs.

Why sell smuggled phones in the first place?

They are cheap and people can’t afford to pay Rs40,000 for a reliable smartphone, but they are happy to buy the second-hand (used) version of the same phone for Rs15,000, Rizwan explained. As per traders’ estimates, 80% users in the market like to buy a second-hand phone.

There are no two opinions about the unlimited benefits of smartphone technology. By taxing these devices, you make them expensive thus deprive the poor of using the latest technology. Besides, we are open to paying taxes and want to come under the tax net, he said.

What to do with the blocked phones?

The people whose mobile phones have been blocked can get it unblocked online at PTA’s website or by visiting either PTA or FBR offices. Both these options are available for those physically present in Pakistan.

What to do if you want to buy a used/smuggled phone?

Before making the payment, check the device’s IMEI number and send it to 8484. If its status is PTA comply, buy it. If it shows non-compliant, you have two options: don’t buy or check the amount of tax you will need to pay after purchasing it.

You can register the device at PTA’s website and the system will generate a tax slip, this will tell you how much you pay in total.

Follow SAMAA English on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

I bought an iPhone SX now I have yo pay over 50,000 rs extra.
Im screwed!

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

I bought an iPhone SX now I have yo pay over 50,000 rs extra.
Im screwed!

People often buy iPhone from abroad because apple is not selling iPhone officially in Pakistan

was it brand new?