Over 60% of ‘Made In India’ IAF Tejas Grounded

[Mrc]

Tejas grounded be like no more trucks for you

 

[Khan vilatey]

this,is, biggest troll.effort yet .

firstly we don't have 40 jets.

second all. the issues,were from 5 plus,years ago

third why post picture on trailers why not show the tejas ripping thru the sky or formation of 5 planes

blatant troll

report the post
guys love the bit when he says,tejas was built for poor countries,like India

then wrote 7 billion dollars,next to it

that's,so funny

So here is a simple question ? Why did the IAF only order 86 jets ? There requirement is for 200+ why are they planning to order another 50 rafaels and mirage 2000s. ?

none of the things this guy wrote are false . The fact is that Indian analysts and pilots alike feel the plane is underpowered, over weight and carries very little fuel. So are you refuting everything pilots like myself say about this aircraft?

Admittedly when the jf-17 first came out we as Pakistani’s were underwhelmed. But it gave us something better than our existing block 15 f-16s. The PAF persevered and the jf-17 block 2 is better than anything India flies today save the 6 rafaels. There is a MLU + upgrade program afoot and jf-17 block 3 and j-10c would be a significant threat to India.

simply put tejas is too late for its own good! It’s going exactly the HF-24 Marut. Even the versioning mk1a is the same. Why not save money and lives and start work on the more powerful medium level fighter and this time induct it in numbers within a few years?

k

 

[anathema]

THis entire thread is a joke - but since you seem to be a reasonable poster i will try my best to answer questions.

So here is a simple question ? Why did the IAF only order 86 jets ? There requirement is for 200+ why are they planning to order another 50 rafaels and mirage 2000s. ?

Order is not for 86 jets. It is 83 + 40 jets. 40 Jets have already been ordered and is of Mk1 specification, whereas 83 is of Mk1A spec. So the total is 123 jets. It always was slated to be replacement of Mig21's. The next order will be of LCA Mk2 - this will be a replacement of M2K's , Mig29's and Jaguars. Most probably another order of 36 Rafales will happen which will take care of high end spectrum and rest all will be handled by LCA Mk2

none of the things this guy wrote are false . The fact is that Indian analysts and pilots alike feel the plane is underpowered, over weight and carries very little fuel. So are you refuting everything pilots like myself say about this aircraft?

Whatever the guy wrote is ubber rubbish and pulled out of his wazzooo. LCA had its share of detractors - it has been called names including 3 legged cheetah. However all of that was in its initial phases when it was still going through hoops. There has been a sea change in perception. This has been primarily due to 2 important factors -->
1. Weapon range excercise conducted across IAF somewhere in 2017-2018. Surprisingly LCA turned out to have the best score in weapon delivery excercise. Search for Air Marshal Raghunath Nambiar and listen to his conclave
2. Gaganshakti excercise - Pan india excercise to evaluate two front war scenarios. LCA demonstrate excellent availability. Some minor hiccups were there but overall excellent availability with more than 5-6 sorties in a day. You can listen to Air Marshal Dhanao and many others during this excercise.
This opened up the eyes of IAF. And if you start listening to IAF chiefs after 2016, 2017 then all started changing their opinion on LCA.
Indian armed forces dont care a damn about indigenous products. Their only concern is weapon should be good and they should be able to fight. This coupled with the fact that economically they can make it happen. So if LCA was not really capable - it would have been scuttled. Just the way Marut , Arjun has been scuttled. This is unlike PAF - they really dont have choice economically.

Admittedly when the jf-17 first came out we as Pakistani’s were underwhelmed. But it gave us something better than our existing block 15 f-16s. The PAF persevered and the jf-17 block 2 is better than anything India flies today save the 6 rafaels. There is a MLU + upgrade program afoot and jf-17 block 3 and j-10c would be a significant threat to India.

Really ? I mean how do you guys even logically reason it out. Your airforce still depends on MirageIII for A-G delivery, it still depends on F7's. Your JF can never dream about eclipsing F16's . F16 remains the tip of your spear and coveted aircraft that your top pilots desire to fly. And yet you conclusively tells that Jf17 is better than anything India flies today - and this includes Su 30's , Mig29's , M2k's.
This is the same engine that is powered by RD engine which is very familiar to IAF. IAF exactly knows its availability and issues. JF is also powered by chinese electronics which was vehemently opposed by PAF but then they had no choice. We old timers know the exact history.
So logically your reasoning is flawed.

simply put tejas is too late for its own good! It’s going exactly the HF-24 Marut. Even the versioning mk1a is the same. Why not save money and lives and start work on the more powerful medium level fighter and this time induct it in numbers within a few years?

What Tejas will do and what Marut never did is to spawn aeronautical industry ! It takes efforts and dedication to create a industry. THis should not be confused with assembling a aircraft which is what JF17 and Su30 represents. Have a look at ISRO and then take a look at Suparco. ISRO has gone from step to step to success. Same is the case with missile stories in India. It will be the case with fighters as well.
If we were to abandon light weight fighter and go for medium fighter - all the lessons would have been lost, there would have been no continuity and it would have resulted in catastrophe. Instead now we will build LCA's learnings, components and will roll out Mk2. BY next 2023 you will see Mk2 doing runs - i have no doubts in it.

Meanwhile, PAF leadership felt confident enough to choose two PAF JF-17 fighter jets carrying 2MK-83 454Kg REK bombs each to lead the PAF strike package and bomb Indian targets in broad daylight.... the strike caused such fear in Indian high command present in the Brigade HQ that he refused to fly to Delhi and instead travelled by train.
OTOH, the IAF or Indian MOD don't even have the confidence to fly their Tejas on their Republic Day Flypast.
Hence it is often seen dragged on a trailer.

Hey windy - good to see you. How is the progress of JF ? Does JF complete a loop ?

 

[The Maverick]

So here is a simple question ? Why did the IAF only order 86 jets ? There requirement is for 200+ why are they planning to order another 50 rafaels and mirage 2000s. ?

none of the things this guy wrote are false . The fact is that Indian analysts and pilots alike feel the plane is underpowered, over weight and carries very little fuel. So are you refuting everything pilots like myself say about this aircraft?

Admittedly when the jf-17 first came out we as Pakistani’s were underwhelmed. But it gave us something better than our existing block 15 f-16s. The PAF persevered and the jf-17 block 2 is better than anything India flies today save the 6 rafaels. There is a MLU + upgrade program afoot and jf-17 block 3 and j-10c would be a significant threat to India.

simply put tejas is too late for its own good! It’s going exactly the HF-24 Marut. Even the versioning mk1a is the same. Why not save money and lives and start work on the more powerful medium level fighter and this time induct it in numbers within a few years?

k

firstly the rafajes are 11 not 6 .
3 batches,delivered 5 3 and 3
second the mki and mirage2000 would and mig29 would walk all.over your current jf17

why
in with visual range dog fight all these combat planes,carry hobs. missles and the helmet mounted display. the indian pilots simply look and the helmet paints the thunder.
this is glaring massive weakness in block 1 and 2 .
the second reason the radars,on block one are basic klj in a small nose single engine fighter .the mki the mig 29 have bigger radars,ie aesa or pesa,more process g power. the rdy400 and mica combo on mirage2000 dash 9 was your first choice for the thunder upgrade and is also way better

so your post is rubbish sorry

 

[Khan vilatey]

ever.since the tejas deal.was signed,and official news,on swarm drones,
cats Astra and rudra standoff weapons Amca have become global defense news the pakistan trolling and Bashing has escalated.
I sense a real deep insecurity
they see,the Massive indian navy with indian warships,already including carriers,and nuke subs so fully understand it was,just a,matter of time before aerospace became huge indian domain and success,
you guys are fully aware world class isro space,technology and the 100.billion dollar a year export in info tech business.
now you fear Amca and drones,and missles like Astra,rudra are.coming.

the criticism.is,actually a fear and begrudging acknowledgement

Mav come on man, were you absent they day they taught economics?

1) the whole influx of Indian software export and cheap labor is coming to an end . Biden needs to grow American jobs in technology and back office service industry. So there is going to be division there.

2) Biden also wants India to fight the west’s battles against supper power China. he is talking mostly about defence cooperation in the QUAD. This will alienate Russia and all of India’s Nebihours and force India to send all their economic output competing with a superpower China rather than spending the money on their people. This will lead to disparity in classes as the rich will make a lot of money from these projects while the poor will miss out on the development creating further unrest resulting in further uprisings

3) Biden considers Russia to be a true enemy of the west and such will get India to spend their money on western tech alienating Russia. With 80-90% of Indian equipment being Russian this will bode terrible for India in the short to medium term. Specially if there is a conflict in the next 3 years

this all means doom for India. So I don’t understand why you are celebrating

k

 

[Khan vilatey]

THis entire thread is a joke - but since you seem to be a reasonable poster i will try my best to answer questions.


Order is not for 86 jets. It is 83 + 40 jets. 40 Jets have already been ordered and is of Mk1 specification, whereas 83 is of Mk1A spec. So the total is 123 jets. It always was slated to be replacement of Mig21's. The next order will be of LCA Mk2 - this will be a replacement of M2K's , Mig29's and Jaguars. Most probably another order of 36 Rafales will happen which will take care of high end spectrum and rest all will be handled by LCA Mk2


Whatever the guy wrote is ubber rubbish and pulled out of his wazzooo. LCA had its share of detractors - it has been called names including 3 legged cheetah. However all of that was in its initial phases when it was still going through hoops. There has been a sea change in perception. This has been primarily due to 2 important factors -->
1. Weapon range excercise conducted across IAF somewhere in 2017-2018. Surprisingly LCA turned out to have the best score in weapon delivery excercise. Search for Air Marshal Raghunath Nambiar and listen to his conclave
2. Gaganshakti excercise - Pan india excercise to evaluate two front war scenarios. LCA demonstrate excellent availability. Some minor hiccups were there but overall excellent availability with more than 5-6 sorties in a day. You can listen to Air Marshal Dhanao and many others during this excercise.
This opened up the eyes of IAF. And if you start listening to IAF chiefs after 2016, 2017 then all started changing their opinion on LCA.
Indian armed forces dont care a damn about indigenous products. Their only concern is weapon should be good and they should be able to fight. This coupled with the fact that economically they can make it happen. So if LCA was not really capable - it would have been scuttled. Just the way Marut , Arjun has been scuttled. This is unlike PAF - they really dont have choice economically.



Really ? I mean how do you guys even logically reason it out. Your airforce still depends on MirageIII for A-G delivery, it still depends on F7's. Your JF can never dream about eclipsing F16's . F16 remains the tip of your spear and coveted aircraft that your top pilots desire to fly. And yet you conclusively tells that Jf17 is better than anything India flies today - and this includes Su 30's , Mig29's , M2k's.
This is the same engine that is powered by RD engine which is very familiar to IAF. IAF exactly knows its availability and issues. JF is also powered by chinese electronics which was vehemently opposed by PAF but then they had no choice. We old timers know the exact history.
So logically your reasoning is flawed.



What Tejas will do and what Marut never did is to spawn aeronautical industry ! It takes efforts and dedication to create a industry. THis should not be confused with assembling a aircraft which is what JF17 and Su30 represents. Have a look at ISRO and then take a look at Suparco. ISRO has gone from step to step to success. Same is the case with missile stories in India. It will be the case with fighters as well.
If we were to abandon light weight fighter and go for medium fighter - all the lessons would have been lost, there would have been no continuity and it would have resulted in catastrophe. Instead now we will build LCA's learnings, components and will roll out Mk2. BY next 2023 you will see Mk2 doing runs - i have no doubts in it.


Hey windy - good to see you. How is the progress of JF ? Does JF complete a loop ?

okay nice....so here is my understanding

1) according to you in exercises the LCA scored high .You do realize this means they the entire IAF is pretty shit that it can’t take on even the LCA prototype version. No wonder we shot down two IAF aircraft and sent the rest packing back in the Indian occupied Kashmir! This explains why India bought the Rafael. Nothing else in the IAF is a threat. All they have is 6 rafaels and 40 ish mirages

2) we use upgraded mirage 3 and 5s but the IAF also uses 60s Jaguars in the same role. IAF mirage inventory is. Very very limited in numbers. So what was your point here?

3) so Praveen Swhani and abhijit Iyer Mitra both of whom have been accurate about the Indian surrender to China have been correct, who would you like me to believe ?

4) yes isro has some what succeeded when compared to suparco agreed. But how does isro compare to Chinese space agency,NASA, Russian space agency and the European space agency. It’s pretty shit ! Hell digi globe has better satellites and market coverage.

read my post on economics. The one thing that could have kept us at bay a semblance of secularism or a single country is now dead. You are more bigoted than Pakistani.

so thank you Modi

k

 

[Windjammer]

Hey windy - good to see you. How is the progress of JF ? Does JF complete a loop ?

Loop you ask....unlike some who need complete stretch of runway in full after burner before pulling up , JF can go ballistic as soon as the landing gear is up.....what's big deal about a loop but none the less, instead of a simple loop, it finishes them with two aileron rolls.

 

[Khan vilatey]

the level of jealousy since aero India had increased 500 percent

Pakistanis hate the fact that India is building
tejas mark 1
testing mark 2 next year
Amca metal cutting 5th gen.
inducted,Astra bvr on mki and now tejas
mark2 160km bvr now tested entering service 2022
rudra 1 and 2 radiationong range strike missles and next gen hypersonic missles being tested
dhruv and light attack choppers in service
new imrh 13 tonne helicopter coming 2025
next gen akash sam tested
already 1000 plus akash sams in service
15 communication satalites in space thanks to isro

and all.they have jf17 being tested in chengdu. .I.mean come on man

What us jealous........ come on mav. We in Pakistan are jealous of a lot of things, Ayesha Umer being still relevant, why the pindi express is allowed to speak on tv? But India is not one of them.

yea,the entire thread is made up at 60 percent figure just Plucked out of thin air

just because there are numerous suggestins that large part of the thunders,are showing signs of fatigue already in airframe and engines,after less than a,decade .
but hey
we know about Russian engines,life cycle is half that of a western engine that's why I india,paid more than double to get general.electric engines,on tejas. pak went for cheap option rd93 russia,

second the thunders,airframe being all.alloy is showing signs of cracking all ready again they cut corners and cost when the like of tejas gripen j10 typhoon Rafale all.have composite airframe for lighter and less stress... Again you palistanis get what you pay for
we took.our time but get a much better more modern fighter so its delayed but we had su30mki and mirage2000 to fall.back on

even now we induct more Rafale along side tejas

So one day india will probably make a workable aircraft I just don’t think tejas is one of them. It’s too old in its design and the product is just not ready. It’s deign thinking would have worked in 1990 but not in 2022. The mark 2 is a much more realistic option. It is what India needs.

We had similar issues but we put ours into production, block 2 is what we need , block 3 is what we want , block 4 is the up version with deep strike capabilities

This whole hopula around crack in the airframe and avalibity is just that houpla. Pakistan has been flying similar aircraft and overhauling them and maintaining them for 70 years. On average our pilots fly 230 hours a year 150 hours more than Indian pilots. Yet our maintenance and availability is much higher I think it’s around 75-80%. We fly mig-21s, mirage 3/5, jf-17s and f-16s. So I would worry much more about the IAF and the flying confins , Jaguars, mig-29s , mirage 2000, dhruv......the list goes on

K

 

[anathema]

Just when i thought you are perhaps one of the sensible ones --

okay nice....so here is my understanding

1) according to you in exercises the LCA scored high .You do realize this means they the entire IAF is pretty shit that it can’t take on even the LCA prototype version. No wonder we shot down two IAF aircraft and sent the rest packing back in the Indian occupied Kashmir! This explains why India bought the Rafael. Nothing else in the IAF is a threat. All they have is 6 rafaels and 40 ish mirages

IAF is pretty scared ..thats why they are ordering LCA in droves. ROFL - your absence of logic amazes me. Here are some things - 1. we annexed Kashmir !! It is formally now a part of India. Other than celebrating 5 min silence you guys have done nothing and you never will. 2. Less said about Feb is better. You lost of F16, we lost a Mig21. You won a domestic perception battle - other than you guys did not achieve any strategic outcome ! Zero ! 3. Honestly PAK and PAF really does not matter for us anymore. It matters in politics but other than that there is no impact. Our threat is China and late but we realize it more than ever. So please dont give yourself credit - Rafales, Su's are all for China and handling 2 front war. If its just PAK - then less said is better.

2) we use upgraded mirage 3 and 5s but the IAF also uses 60s Jaguars in the same role. IAF mirage inventory is. Very very limited in numbers. So what was your point here?

Your point was abt JF is better than everything IAF flying out there. Your statement is contradictory. PAF uses MirageIII , F16 and F7 - coz JF obviously cannot do those roles. So by that same analogy you are again saying JF is better than anything that IAF flies today - its actually dumb logic.

3) so Praveen Swhani and abhijit Iyer Mitra both of whom have been accurate about the Indian surrender to China have been correct, who would you like me to believe ?

What about them ? They are people - they have opinions. Unlike PAK , people are free to give their opinions. Wait so should i believe Ayesha Siddiqa who called PAK armed forces PAK Army inc and clearly said "This is not a fighting army but a business empire entity. Every general is multimillionaire. Have you eaten Papa johns pizza ? Heard its yummy"

4) yes isro has some what succeeded when compared to suparco agreed. But how does isro compare to Chinese space agency,NASA, Russian space agency and the European space agency. It’s pretty shit ! Hell digi globe has better satellites and market coverage.

Good so you agree Suparco is pretty horrible. Just like everything else is. Anyways - thanks for comparing with NAsa - we are nowhere. But hey with the budget that ISRO has - it was able to put more than 100 satellites in space (SpaceX recently beat that record), Did mars orbitter, tried to land on Moon, attempting to put man in space...I will take it.

read my post on economics. The one thing that could have kept us at bay a semblance of secularism or a single country is now dead. You are more bigoted than Pakistani.

Ignored ! Your post has no meaning. I have been on PDF since much before Modi and my opinion has not changed.

. On average our pilots fly 230 hours a year 150 hours more than Indian pilots. Yet our maintenance and availability is much higher I think it’s around 75-80%. We fly mig-21s, mirage 3/5, jf-17s and f-16s. So I would worry much more about the IAF and the flying confins , Jaguars, mig-29s , mirage 2000, dhruv......the list goes on

O boy....that is awesome ! I think you guys can easily beat USAF. 80% availability---rofl

Loop you ask....unlike some who need complete stretch of runway in full after burner before pulling up , JF can go ballistic as soon as the landing gear is up.....what's big deal about a loop but none the less, instead of a simple loop, it finishes them with two aileron rolls.

Congratulations...JF can finally do a Looooop!!! You made my day Windy ! Hey why did you guys pay such a hefty fine to pull out of Bahrain ?

 

[The Maverick]

What us jealous........ come on mav. We in Pakistan are jealous of a lot of things, Ayesha Umer being still relevant, why the pindi express is allowed to speak on tv? But India is not one of them.



So one day india will probably make a workable aircraft I just don’t think tejas is one of them. It’s too old in its design and the product is just not ready. It’s deign thinking would have worked in 1990 but not in 2022. The mark 2 is a much more realistic option. It is what India needs.

We had similar issues but we put ours into production, block 2 is what we need , block 3 is what we want , block 4 is the up version with deep strike capabilities

This whole hopula around crack in the airframe and avalibity is just that houpla. Pakistan has been flying similar aircraft and overhauling them and maintaining them for 70 years. On average our pilots fly 230 hours a year 150 hours more than Indian pilots. Yet our maintenance and availability is much higher I think it’s around 75-80%. We fly mig-21s, mirage 3/5, jf-17s and f-16s. So I would worry much more about the IAF and the flying confins , Jaguars, mig-29s , mirage 2000, dhruv......the list goes on

K

There is no open source material about your flying hours
You have no internal controls that highlight deficency in your mliitary because everything is run by your Army.
I mean you have no transparency like we do india
wete is your CAG REPORT you have no independant audit commisson
Were is your national defense budget breaking down the military budget you spend $9 billion ...
We spend $65 billion
YET you claim more flyng hours , better maintenance , better equipped , better food
HOW YOU WORK THIS MAGIC on $9 billion

You cant it is pack of lies ..
1. you spend alot more than $9 billion
2. you far more crashes and maintenance issues but will not report them
3. Half your offical mirage fleet is scrap and cannibilised for spares because nobody builds them anywhere in the world they are that old.
4. your desperately trying to get J10 or more F16 as you know deep down S400 and Rafale as changed the balance big time.........Those 50 block 3 whilst overcoming the issues of poor airframe , better aesa radar , better bvr and HMD still make thunder second to F16 . WHY BECAUSE its small size poor TWR and load out.

But hey for a country with tiny budget its a god send

much better finish then thunder better engines more higher spec even in mrk 1

 

[Windjammer]

Congratulations...JF can finally do a Looooop!!! You made my day Windy ! Hey why did you guys pay such a hefty fine to pull out of Bahrain ?

Astonishingly loop is hardly a worthy manoeuvre but only Tejas has the honour of performing a Formula F-1 move in the air.
PAF never committed to BAS so there is no question of pulling out or any fine besides apart from desperate to make an entrance, besides Tejas how many fighter jets did actually participate in that so called airshow.
You see compared to Farnborough, Paris, Dubai, Zhuhai amongst others where the JF participated, BAS is like a car boot sale.

 

[Windjammer]

There is no open source material about your flying hours
You have no internal controls that highlight deficency in your mliitary because everything is run by your Army.
I mean you have no transparency like we do india
wete is your CAG REPORT you have no independant audit commisson
Were is your national defense budget breaking down the military budget you spend $9 billion ...
We spend $65 billion
YET you claim more flyng hours , better maintenance , better equipped , better food
HOW YOU WORK THIS MAGIC on $9 billion

You cant it is pack of lies ..
1. you spend alot more than $9 billion
2. you far more crashes and maintenance issues but will not report them
3. Half your offical mirage fleet is scrap and cannibilised for spares because nobody builds them anywhere in the world they are that old.
4. your desperately trying to get J10 or more F16 as you know deep down S400 and Rafale as changed the balance big time.........Those 50 block 3 whilst overcoming the issues of poor airframe , better aesa radar , better bvr and HMD still make thunder second to F16 . WHY BECAUSE its small size poor TWR and load out.

But hey for a country with tiny budget its a god send
View attachment 715756

View attachment 715757

much better finish then thunder better engines more higher spec even in mrk 1

Bla Bla Bla......nice paint job....underneath is all patchwork... just look at the finishing around Tejas Gun Port.

 

[The Maverick]

REST MY CASE about pack of lies re better equipped more flying hours or better maintenance

On your budget its almost impossible to even field 200 planes let alone 400

 

[Windjammer]

REST MY CASE about pack of lies re better equipped more flying hours or better maintenance

On your budget its almost impossible to even field 200 planes let alone 400

It's not your fault since you belong to a country of geniuses who earlier put up this formation claiming to be of the aircraft that took part in the so called Balakot mission.
You Indians are such brilliant minded that you made over a billion of your country fellows believe that IAF only had Two SU-30s and Three Mirage-2000s in it's inventory which it has fielded as a proof.

 

[Khan vilatey]

Just when i thought you are perhaps one of the sensible ones --


IAF is pretty scared ..thats why they are ordering LCA in droves. ROFL - your absence of logic amazes me. Here are some things - 1. we annexed Kashmir !! It is formally now a part of India. Other than celebrating 5 min silence you guys have done nothing and you never will. 2. Less said about Feb is better. You lost of F16, we lost a Mig21. You won a domestic perception battle - other than you guys did not achieve any strategic outcome ! Zero ! 3. Honestly PAK and PAF really does not matter for us anymore. It matters in politics but other than that there is no impact. Our threat is China and late but we realize it more than ever. So please dont give yourself credit - Rafales, Su's are all for China and handling 2 front war. If its just PAK - then less said is better.


Your point was abt JF is better than everything IAF flying out there. Your statement is contradictory. PAF uses MirageIII , F16 and F7 - coz JF obviously cannot do those roles. So by that same analogy you are again saying JF is better than anything that IAF flies today - its actually dumb logic.


What about them ? They are people - they have opinions. Unlike PAK , people are free to give their opinions. Wait so should i believe Ayesha Siddiqa who called PAK armed forces PAK Army inc and clearly said "This is not a fighting army but a business empire entity. Every general is multimillionaire. Have you eaten Papa johns pizza ? Heard its yummy"


Good so you agree Suparco is pretty horrible. Just like everything else is. Anyways - thanks for comparing with NAsa - we are nowhere. But hey with the budget that ISRO has - it was able to put more than 100 satellites in space (SpaceX recently beat that record), Did mars orbitter, tried to land on Moon, attempting to put man in space...I will take it.


Ignored ! Your post has no meaning. I have been on PDF since much before Modi and my opinion has not changed.


O boy....that is awesome ! I think you guys can easily beat USAF. 80% availability---rofl


Congratulations...JF can finally do a Looooop!!! You made my day Windy ! Hey why did you guys pay such a hefty fine to pull out of Bahrain ?

That’s the point right they are not ordering these in droves. 40 aircraft first order 86 aircraft second order under intense Goverment pressure. This is a political decision not a coherent one. The air force is buying these in token numbers just like the hf-24 Marut. unfortunately we will keep disagreeing here as you will understand the logic the IAF sees. The Indian navy saw and all other countries see.

if the Jf17 ergo PAF are not previewed as more capable than why is the IAF nit buying any more of the existing aircraft. Why no more mig-29s, mirage 2000, su-30s ........ these are all useless against PAF which flies the JF-17 and f-16s in the air domanence role. The PAF clearly Wants mire f-16s and JF-17s

today Pakistan is not capable of taking back kasmir. In 3-4 years after modernization we would be able to try. We need a bigger economy for this We pray that cpec trade will enable this. I pray that Allah forgive us for our failure to free our Kashmiri brothers they suffer because Pakistan is not capable yet.

listen to the opinions of your experts they are right.

the PAF was trained by the Americans we maintain our equipment at nato levels. It’s always been like this. We learnt to live within our means.

suparco is severely under funded . There yearly budget is 5- 6 million us$ I believe 70% of which is consumed by salaries. It’s surprising how they developed a satellite. This is on the other hand a great seat for us to train scientists and move them to Defence projects. The chief designer of Shaheen systems was ex supAeco need i go on.

k