What's new

Over 60% of ‘Made In India’ IAF Tejas Grounded

NONE of the above are CREDIBLE & SUBSTANTIATED evidence. Just amateur video clips and pictures............ :disagree:


Who ever said that the Tejas was 100% built in India?? The fellow just stated that the Tejas was built in India. This could be from (51% - 100%). If we use 51% as the min. requirement for built in a given country then where is the JF17 built?
 
. .
HOW CAN YOU GROUND SOMETHING WHICH IS ALREADY GROUNDED???? Do they mean dig a hole and bury Tejas?? :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
. .
Writer "Malik Khurram Khan".
Haha.
I bet he thinks he is a 5th generation warfare star.

It's not just Malik Khurram Khan.

Look at the Unionized lazy bum govt. workers you have at HAL working on these things and their work ethos.

They shouldn't be assembling railway locomotives, much less platforms that exceed the speed of sound. But Pakistanis, Chinese and Bangladeshis - we do not mind one bit, in fact we encourage this kind of incompetent moron freaks that work for assembling fighters for India. Have more indefinite Strikes - bhaiyo or behno, agey barho!!

We are even willing to finance this type of incompetence. 8-)

iu


Here is the main point, your IAF commanders aren't happy with HAL standards. HAL doesn't make tractors - they make aircraft. You have to have qualified folks working to make a high quality product. This is not a Seva Ashram or Langarkhana where you provide sympathy jobs for the lowest quality labor and expect to have a high quality product come out. I mean, what is this, a frigging jute mill? Look at these idiots !!

Your AF is rightfully demanding a drastic change - otherwise this product will stay grounded.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HAL work ethos needs ‘drastic’ change, but blame game will solve nothing: IAF veterans
SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP 3 February, 2019 1:22 pm IST
Mirage-2000 fighter aircraft wreckage in Bengaluru
People take photos of the wreckage of the Mirage-2000 fighter aircraft after it crash landed in Bengaluru | PTI

A day before Mirage 2000 crash in Bengaluru, IAF chief B.S. Dhanoa had hit out at HAL for blaming it for delays. Former officers agree with chief’s assessment.

New Delhi:
In the aftermath of the Mirage 2000 crash and plain speaking by Indian Air Force chief B.S. Dhanoa, former senior officers of the IAF have questioned the capabilities of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. However, they’ve also said there should be no blame game between the IAF and the state-owned aerospace and defence firm.

HAL has been under the scanner since a Mirage 2000 aircraft crashed in Bengaluru Friday, soon after being upgraded by HAL, killing two young pilots who were on an ‘acceptance sortie’.

Also read: Mechanical failure could be behind Mirage 2000 accident, death of 2 pilots

A day earlier, Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa had launched a frontal attack on HAL, rejecting allegations that the development of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft had suffered because the IAF changed specifications and requirements frequently. Dhanoa said the IAF has “made concessions for HAL, but will the enemy make any concession for us when we face them in battle?”

He asserted: “IAF has not shifted any goal posts as alleged. We have maintained the Air Staff Quality Requirements (ASQR) of the first 20 LCA Mk-I at standards issued in 1985.” And even then, HAL has been able to manufacture only “10 fighters”, he said.

However, it must be noted that the IAF chief also praised HAL for its contribution in making Exercise Gaganshakti a success last year. In this exercise, HAL and IAF worked together to carry out a record number of sorties and maintain a high serviceability ratio.

More nuanced approach

Air Chief Marshal Srinivasapuram Krishnaswamy (retd), who headed the IAF from 2001 to 2004, called for a more nuanced approach and said Dhanoa’s statement should not be connected to the crash that took place a day later.

“Had it not being for HAL, we would not have been flying the MiGs for all these years,” Krishnaswamy said. He also highlighted that Tejas had done thousands of flying hours without any accident.

On the issue of concessions given, Krishnaswamy, who wrote the draft ASQR in 1985 that was later formally accepted, said they are something that even the French, US and Chinese military give.

Also read: HAL doesn’t fly because Sukhois aren’t Rafale

However, he added that the work ethos needed “drastic” change, and that IAF and HAL should swap personnel involved in maintenance and other arenas to understand each other.

“There needs to be a look into the managerial structure. There need to be drastic changes,” he said, adding that deployment of IAF officers to HAL needs to be done in a calibrated manner. He also underlined that industrial function must also go to the private sector.

In fact, several other former officers also stressed on the need to fix HAL’s work culture.

Air Chief Marshal A.Y. Tipnis (retd), who served as IAF chief 1998 to 2001, agreed that there are issues, but said they need to be discussed behind closed doors. He refused to say much more, saying the matter is sensitive, especially after the crash, but also spoke out against a blame game.

Scathing criticism of HAL
However, there were those veterans who laid the blame squarely at HAL’s door.

Air Marshal K.K. Nohwar (retd), former vice-chief of the IAF and director-general of the Centre for Air Power Studies, said HAL needed to ramp up its performance and get over the “slackness”.

He said a proper revamp of HAL was “long overdue”, and the delays in programmes was completely unacceptable.

Air Marshal Vinod Patney (retd) said the whole situation is a “terrible paradox”, since HAL says it is not getting enough support in terms of money from the government, and the IAF says it is a PSU and has to deliver on its promises.

“Something is terribly wrong with the systems at HAL and the way it functions. HAL needs to be overhauled completely. I want HAL to succeed, but it should not take anyone for granted,” he said.

Air Marshal P.K. Barbora (retd), former vice-chief of the IAF, said the delays in programmes hampered the fighting capabilities of the IAF.

“Even a blind man will tell you this. HAL has not delivered on its promises or its timelines. The worst part is that there are issues of quality control with the product manufactured by HAL. It is below the standard of any aviation industry,” he said.

Also read: Mirage jet crash after upgrade raises serious questions on HAL ability

Barbora said be it the Tejas or the upgrade programme of the Mirage 2000s and Jaguars, delays have hit the IAF.

“The IAF plans long term and when the planning goes for a toss, everything goes for a toss. HAL is like a big white elephant. Can we shut down HAL? No, we cannot. Whenever we have said that it needs to be run by a senior Air Marshal, the government has turned it down,” he said.

“HAL was set up before China built its counterpart, and now look where they are and where we are. Life lost is life lost, quality lost is quality lost, time lost is time lost, but we will not use the danda (stick).”

Air Vice Marshal Manmohan Bahadur (retd) said it is wrong to say that the IAF kept changing goalposts on Tejas.

“There is a Preliminary Air Staff Quality Requirement (PASQR) which is made jointly, only then is the ASQR is made up. It is natural for some requirements to be changed with time. Technology is galloping away while we sit and wait,” he said.
 
.
It's not just Malik Khurram Khan.

Look at the Unionized lazy bum govt. workers you have at HAL working on these things and their work ethos.

They shouldn't be assembling railway locomotives, much less platforms that exceed the speed of sound. But Pakistanis, Chinese and Bangladeshis - we do not mind one bit, in fact we encourage this kind of incompetent moron freaks that work for assembling fighters for India. Have more indefinite Strikes - bhaiyo or behno, agey barho!!

We are even willing to finance this type of incompetence. 8-)

iu


Here is the main point, your IAF commanders aren't happy with HAL standards. HAL doesn't make tractors - they make aircraft. You have to have qualified folks working to make a high quality product. This is not a Seva Ashram or Langarkhana where you provide sympathy jobs for the lowest quality labor and expect to have a high quality product come out. I mean, what is this, a frigging jute mill? Look at these idiots !!

Your AF is rightfully demanding a drastic change - otherwise this product will stay grounded.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HAL work ethos needs ‘drastic’ change, but blame game will solve nothing: IAF veterans
SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP 3 February, 2019 1:22 pm IST
Mirage-2000 fighter aircraft wreckage in Bengaluru
People take photos of the wreckage of the Mirage-2000 fighter aircraft after it crash landed in Bengaluru | PTI

A day before Mirage 2000 crash in Bengaluru, IAF chief B.S. Dhanoa had hit out at HAL for blaming it for delays. Former officers agree with chief’s assessment.

New Delhi:
In the aftermath of the Mirage 2000 crash and plain speaking by Indian Air Force chief B.S. Dhanoa, former senior officers of the IAF have questioned the capabilities of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. However, they’ve also said there should be no blame game between the IAF and the state-owned aerospace and defence firm.

HAL has been under the scanner since a Mirage 2000 aircraft crashed in Bengaluru Friday, soon after being upgraded by HAL, killing two young pilots who were on an ‘acceptance sortie’.

Also read: Mechanical failure could be behind Mirage 2000 accident, death of 2 pilots

A day earlier, Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa had launched a frontal attack on HAL, rejecting allegations that the development of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft had suffered because the IAF changed specifications and requirements frequently. Dhanoa said the IAF has “made concessions for HAL, but will the enemy make any concession for us when we face them in battle?”

He asserted: “IAF has not shifted any goal posts as alleged. We have maintained the Air Staff Quality Requirements (ASQR) of the first 20 LCA Mk-I at standards issued in 1985.” And even then, HAL has been able to manufacture only “10 fighters”, he said.

However, it must be noted that the IAF chief also praised HAL for its contribution in making Exercise Gaganshakti a success last year. In this exercise, HAL and IAF worked together to carry out a record number of sorties and maintain a high serviceability ratio.

More nuanced approach

Air Chief Marshal Srinivasapuram Krishnaswamy (retd), who headed the IAF from 2001 to 2004, called for a more nuanced approach and said Dhanoa’s statement should not be connected to the crash that took place a day later.

“Had it not being for HAL, we would not have been flying the MiGs for all these years,” Krishnaswamy said. He also highlighted that Tejas had done thousands of flying hours without any accident.

On the issue of concessions given, Krishnaswamy, who wrote the draft ASQR in 1985 that was later formally accepted, said they are something that even the French, US and Chinese military give.

Also read: HAL doesn’t fly because Sukhois aren’t Rafale

However, he added that the work ethos needed “drastic” change, and that IAF and HAL should swap personnel involved in maintenance and other arenas to understand each other.

“There needs to be a look into the managerial structure. There need to be drastic changes,” he said, adding that deployment of IAF officers to HAL needs to be done in a calibrated manner. He also underlined that industrial function must also go to the private sector.

In fact, several other former officers also stressed on the need to fix HAL’s work culture.

Air Chief Marshal A.Y. Tipnis (retd), who served as IAF chief 1998 to 2001, agreed that there are issues, but said they need to be discussed behind closed doors. He refused to say much more, saying the matter is sensitive, especially after the crash, but also spoke out against a blame game.

Scathing criticism of HAL
However, there were those veterans who laid the blame squarely at HAL’s door.

Air Marshal K.K. Nohwar (retd), former vice-chief of the IAF and director-general of the Centre for Air Power Studies, said HAL needed to ramp up its performance and get over the “slackness”.

He said a proper revamp of HAL was “long overdue”, and the delays in programmes was completely unacceptable.


Air Marshal Vinod Patney (retd) said the whole situation is a “terrible paradox”, since HAL says it is not getting enough support in terms of money from the government, and the IAF says it is a PSU and has to deliver on its promises.

“Something is terribly wrong with the systems at HAL and the way it functions. HAL needs to be overhauled completely. I want HAL to succeed, but it should not take anyone for granted,” he said.

Air Marshal P.K. Barbora (retd), former vice-chief of the IAF, said the delays in programmes hampered the fighting capabilities of the IAF.

“Even a blind man will tell you this. HAL has not delivered on its promises or its timelines. The worst part is that there are issues of quality control with the product manufactured by HAL. It is below the standard of any aviation industry,” he said.

Also read: Mirage jet crash after upgrade raises serious questions on HAL ability

Barbora said be it the Tejas or the upgrade programme of the Mirage 2000s and Jaguars, delays have hit the IAF.

“The IAF plans long term and when the planning goes for a toss, everything goes for a toss. HAL is like a big white elephant. Can we shut down HAL? No, we cannot. Whenever we have said that it needs to be run by a senior Air Marshal, the government has turned it down,” he said.

“HAL was set up before China built its counterpart, and now look where they are and where we are. Life lost is life lost, quality lost is quality lost, time lost is time lost, but we will not use the danda (stick).”

Air Vice Marshal Manmohan Bahadur (retd) said it is wrong to say that the IAF kept changing goalposts on Tejas.

“There is a Preliminary Air Staff Quality Requirement (PASQR) which is made jointly, only then is the ASQR is made up. It is natural for some requirements to be changed with time. Technology is galloping away while we sit and wait,” he said.
Cant disagree, except your including all Bangladeshis in your comment. Only the BDians who liked being part of east Pakistan like you should be included. The BDians i have worked with are very chill with Indians
 
.
Hey for the old man Tejas, Getting Grounded means Promotion, at least it came off the truck :D
 
.
the level of jealousy since aero India had increased 500 percent

Pakistanis hate the fact that India is building
tejas mark 1
testing mark 2 next year
Amca metal cutting 5th gen.
inducted,Astra bvr on mki and now tejas
mark2 160km bvr now tested entering service 2022
rudra 1 and 2 radiationong range strike missles and next gen hypersonic missles being tested
dhruv and light attack choppers in service
new imrh 13 tonne helicopter coming 2025
next gen akash sam tested
already 1000 plus akash sams in service
15 communication satalites in space thanks to isro

and all.they have jf17 being tested in chengdu. .I.mean come on man
 
.
the level of jealousy since aero India had increased 500 percent

Pakistanis hate the fact that India is building
tejas mark 1
testing mark 2 next year
Amca metal cutting 5th gen.
inducted,Astra bvr on mki and now tejas
mark2 160km bvr now tested entering service 2022
rudra 1 and 2 radiationong range strike missles and next gen hypersonic missles being tested
dhruv and light attack choppers in service
new imrh 13 tonne helicopter coming 2025
next gen akash sam tested
already 1000 plus akash sams in service
15 communication satalites in space thanks to isro

and all.they have jf17 being tested in chengdu. .I.mean come on man
Are you in case a relative to @MMM-E? both of you are soooo keen on making list and bravdo a lot.
 
. .
the,list is,reality did you.not see aero.india


Reality?? You should truly do some sort of reality check.


Honestly as an outsider, I can fully understand the ridicule and all the malice since frankly, clowns and fan-boys like you bear a large part of the responsibility for this.

For years - decades in fact - only promises have been made, one plan after the other announced, revised and ultimately replaced by the next plan. For years fancy models have been presented at airshows and always combined with the promise "from now on it will get better", "it's all just envy and resentment" ... and then nothing happens again.

I'm leaning far out of the window now, but I don't expect a Tejas Mk.2 by the announced date, AMCA will at best remain a testbed and will if ever come only years later, TWDBF / ORCA or whatever will remain models and fan-boys like You will still utter the same sayings: "From now on it will be better", "It's all just envy and resentment" ...
 
. .
What a rubbish article. Complete BS.

yea,the entire thread is made up at 60 percent figure just Plucked out of thin air

just because there are numerous suggestins that large part of the thunders,are showing signs of fatigue already in airframe and engines,after less than a,decade .
but hey
we know about Russian engines,life cycle is half that of a western engine that's why I india,paid more than double to get general.electric engines,on tejas. pak went for cheap option rd93 russia,

second the thunders,airframe being all.alloy is showing signs of cracking all ready again they cut corners and cost when the like of tejas gripen j10 typhoon Rafale all.have composite airframe for lighter and less stress... Again you palistanis get what you pay for
we took.our time but get a much better more modern fighter so its delayed but we had su30mki and mirage2000 to fall.back on

even now we induct more Rafale along side tejas
 
. .
Meanwhile, PAF leadership felt confident enough to choose two PAF JF-17 fighter jets carrying 2MK-83 454Kg REK bombs each to lead the PAF strike package and bomb Indian targets in broad daylight.... the strike caused such fear in Indian high command present in the Brigade HQ that he refused to fly to Delhi and instead travelled by train.
OTOH, the IAF or Indian MOD don't even have the confidence to fly their Tejas on their Republic Day Flypast.
Hence it is often seen dragged on a trailer.
 
.

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom