What's new

Over 50% families can’t have two meals a day

Although there should be no complacency until we have zero poverty but the report figures are highly suspect. In the areas of Pakistan I have travelled I certainly did NOT see this level of poverty. Indeed obesity seems to be issue amongst Pakistanis. That said there are pockets in interior Sindh and Thar that have extreme poverty.

Absolutely agree with you. Then we have the largest and most robust welfare programme iin South Asia - BISP. This is over $1 billion cash transfer to the poor.

"A poverty-targeted cash transfer, the BISP provides a [Rs5,000 per family per month] regular stipend to over five million families. In line with the BISP’s goal of promoting women’s empowerment, the quarterly transfer is paid directly to the female head of the family, aiming to alleviate the effects of food price inflation and other unexpected cost increases on the poorest and most vulnerable households"


https://www.opml.co.uk/projects/evaluating-benazir-income-support-programme
http://web.worldbank.org/archive/website01506/WEB/IMAGES/BANZAIR_.PDF


@Nilgiri


Yup. Sorry forgot that...
also add the health insurance scheme in KP which is now extended to all Pakistan in phases... you get 720000 Rupees medical insurance for family and you don’t have to Pay unless your expenses increases from this amount or things are not covered by your insurance. There are some issues in this system one that i personally experienced when i was visiting a relative is that usually you have to wait for 2-6 months for operation, waiting time depend on your type of operation. Also doctors usually tell you “ok this this this and this item is not covered in your insurance. Bring these from pharmacy”. This needs to change.
 
Although there should be no complacency until we have zero poverty but the report figures are highly suspect. In the areas of Pakistan I have travelled I certainly did NOT see this level of poverty. Indeed obesity seems to be issue amongst Pakistanis. That said there are pockets in interior Sindh and Thar that have extreme poverty.

Absolutely agree with you. Then we have the largest and most robust welfare programme iin South Asia - BISP. This is over $1 billion cash transfer to the poor.

"A poverty-targeted cash transfer, the BISP provides a [Rs5,000 per family per month] regular stipend to over five million families. In line with the BISP’s goal of promoting women’s empowerment, the quarterly transfer is paid directly to the female head of the family, aiming to alleviate the effects of food price inflation and other unexpected cost increases on the poorest and most vulnerable households"


https://www.opml.co.uk/projects/evaluating-benazir-income-support-programme
http://web.worldbank.org/archive/website01506/WEB/IMAGES/BANZAIR_.PDF


@Nilgiri

This is great and hopefully there is ongoing good study (just like this one) on its final effects per rupee spent....and thus what is best way to expand such programs. As for it being biggest size-wise in south asia (esp given the DBT programs in India now)..that is not really relevant to the concept to have and promote and sustainably grow these programs across the region and the developing world at large. Just like India with aadhar you have integrated/digitized this program with your NADRA/CNIC database....that is just what is needed and should provide the scope to keep expanding upon and improving it's efficiency and impact.
 
Yup. Sorry forgot that...
also add the health insurance scheme in KP which is now extended to all Pakistan in phases... you get 720000 Rupees medical insurance for family and you don’t have to Pay unless your expenses increases from this amount or things are not covered by your insurance. There are some issues in this system one that i personally experienced when i was visiting a relative is that usually you have to wait for 2-6 months for operation, waiting time depend on your type of operation. Also doctors usually tell you “ok this this this and this item is not covered in your insurance. Bring these from pharmacy”. This needs to change.
I think this is a seminal event in Pakistan. I hope as we move forward issues with it's application are fine tuned and ironed out.
 
The good news is that Pakistan has been making progress on corruption perception index...and hopefully that has come from some improvement of results on ground which will continue and accelerate.

There need to be some system of addressing as transparently as possible, those that are in the "middle"/"grey" area of govt...the bureaucracy basically....i.e each elected/selected (however ppl perceive that) administration needs to put political differences aside and reward those that are doing a good job (by all measures)...and punish/fire/replace those that are doing a bad or criminal job even.

Then and only then do crucial institutions take on an inertia of self improvement...so there is even some decent chance for the poorest people of our region to not live so hand to mouth and be devoid of a basic access to dignity.

Otherwise simply, it does not really matter who comes to power and who is out of power etc...because all the action/interest/energy (expended by people that could do something) simply becomes black and white absolute scapegoat/hero complex.

I must note the intrinsic+cultural system of Zakat is very noble one that has done a very good job in Pakistan (and muslim-majority countries in general) to address basic income poverty over time (so much so that Pakistan is below 1% poverty rate in current estimates). But to translate into really addressing the broader persistent forms of poverty, there needs to be a qualitative+institutional focus with of course those blessed to be private individual samaritans (like the hero Edhi) also helping and setting a good inspiring example.

A very interesting thing that I have noticed in India case for example, is in the oxford-undp MPI study, those that have escaped (thankfully) the defined scope of multi-dimensional poverty during the 2006 - 2016 era (estimated about 270 million people or so) are all more or less in the category just above it called "vulnerable to multi-dimensional poverty". So definitely a difference is made (in that they have access more than before to basic things)....but the process to get to proper middle-income zone (where people can finally operate on autopilot broadly in economic terms) is a very long one and likely generational (or even multi-generational) duration in length.

Thus its so key to focus as much as possible on the youngest (from inception itself), because their full life is ahead of them still and thus investment into them (body, mind and soul) is the best investment possible for long term heath, progress and benefit of society.

@That Guy @RealNapster @Oscar @waz @RescueRanger @niaz @American Pakistani @VCheng @M. Sarmad @Zaki @Kaniska @Indos @Marine Rouge @Imran Khan


Honorable Nilgiri,

I commend you on your post. I had come across the OHPI (Oxford Poverty & Human Development Initiative) quite recently and read a little bit about it because in my opinion the MPI (Multidimensional Poverty Index) is the development of the Human Development Index (HDI) which was developed thru the efforts by the Pakistani Economist Dr. Mahbubul Haq.

This is also correct that the UNDP study concluded that India had made major progress towards improving the MPI of her citizens. The study also stated that in Afghanistan as well in Pakistan, about 25 of the population lives in abject poverty.

For the convenience of fellow members who are not conversant with the topic under discussion; United Nation Development Fund (UNDP) & OHPI have developed a new yardstick for measuring the general well-being of the population of a given country. This is called MPI, which takes into account three factors (Education, Health & Standard of living) of the general population. The MPI is evaluated on the basis of 10 criteria which are: nutrition ( quantity & quality of daily diet), child mortality, years of schooling, school attendance (percentage of the school-age population actually attending school), availability and the type of cooking fuel, level of sanitation, availability of clean drinking water, electricity, housing & assets of the average household.


Since you have graciously included me among the people asking for comments, I shall attempt to give the same to best of my ability and knowledge.

Firstly we need to define the obligations of the State and the Society/ Individual Citizen to the betterment of the general population of a country.

Firstly, is it the responsibility of the national gov’t to ensure that all of her subjects are fed & clothed properly? The second point is the natural follow up; if not the State's than whose and what is to be done about it?

Naturally, everyone would have a different viewpoint. In a Socialist Welfare State (Sweden), the gov’t takes care of her subjects from ‘Cradle to the grave’, the communist ideal is also similar but IMHO this is not physically possible for any country unless it has a small population and is gifted with sufficient natural resources.

In my view, the State has the prime responsibility to protect life & property and to provide equal justice for its citizens. Additionally, the State should do everything within her means to facilitate her subjects towards having a decent & comfortable life. This means the provision of health, education, transportation infrastructure and help in agriculture thru provision of irrigation water, better seeds, fertilizers, etc. and the means for the family planning but it stops there.

It is however not the government's responsibility to feed people who are unable to buy anything for themselves. This is because no gov’t has unlimited resources and by allocating resources required to feed all of her people who cannot feed themselves free of charge, resources required for other essential expenses would be reduced accordingly hence such gov’t will be curtailing the genuine rights of the rest of the citizens. (As was the practice in Communist countries).

I have seen the Malthusian postulation (Population increases geometrically but resources only in arithmetic progression) actually happening in Pakistan. I remember that according to the 1951 census population of
West Pakistan was only 35-million; 75 years later it is more than 210 –million, that means 6 fold increase.

I would, therefore, say that it is the primary obligation of the Parents themselves to ensure that the number of their children should not be more than they can afford to feed & clothe. However, our cultural values are such that in the attempt to have a male child, some parents will not give up even after giving birth to more than half a dozen girls. Additionally, many consider Family Planning against religion.

It is a reality that all human beings not created equal in their mental & physical & psychological abilities. This is true even among members of the same family. Most religions including Islam had realized this fact, thus obligations under the ‘Huqooq ul Ibad’ in addition to mandatory paying of Zakat; every single person from parents, brothers, sisters to relatives, neighbors, travelers, strangers etc. has to be treated fairly and in the best manner.

This implies that even after paying Zakat, those who can afford are under obligation to help members of the family as well rest of the community as much as their means will permit. Also in Pakistan, there is a misconception that regardless of how the money was earned, large donations to charitable causes guarantees them a place in ‘Heaven’.

Pakistan has about 30K madrasahs with nearly 4-million students. Nearly all students are fed & clothed free of charge. Assuming that it costs only Rs 100 per day per student (about 36K) per year it would cost Rest 144-billion on food alone. It is estimated that total donation to madrasahs amounts to about $2-billion annually. Naturally, some foreign funding in involved but a large percentage comes from the local donations.

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/p...sable-institution-a-worry-for-the-state-26787

This means that even though Pakistanis would not pay tax but the despite being a poor & a low-income country; Pakistan has one of the largest numbers of charitable institutions, which indicates that ordinary Pakistanis are not miserly.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1664949/9-pakistan-one-charitable-nations-world-reveals-stanford-study/

So what is the remedy? IMHO there is no easy & quick solution. However, unless it is a joint effort by the Society at large and the State, it would be next to impossible to achieve the desired results.

Agreed that it would be difficult to change the mindset of the older generation and therefore the target should be the younger population. But before the State/GOP can allocate sufficient resources towards education, health/sanitation, and provision of potable tap water and “Roti, Kapra aur Makaan”; it has to collect a lot more revenue. Hence it is a must that the people should be motivated to pay Tax. The State must ensure that the tax thus collected is in fact spent on the betterment of the people instead of making a few people extremely wealthy.

The State must regulate the ‘Syllabus” of the Madrassas, to ensure that in addition to the religious education, the students must learn technical skills to enable them to earn a living for themselves and their families after finishing their courses of studies. I mean to say that in addition to the simply being the ‘Mullah’ the madrassa graduates should also be carpenters, welder, builders, dentist, paramedical staff or car mechanics etc.

There is also an urgent need to re-open the door of “Ijtehad “which was closed after the fall of the Abbasid Caliphate in the 13th Century. Because we must eliminate the bias against minor things such and polio-vaccination and family planning and eliminate the extremist attitudes such as Takfir & Suicide bombing. Because unless we create a peaceful tolerant Islamic but liberal Pakistan and a law-abiding tax-paying corruption-free society and control the population growth; improvement in the HDI or MPI will not be possible.

One would notice that the text of this post is not well co-ordinated, nevertheless, it conveys the message that if Pakistanis really want to improve their lot, it can only be thru a JV where every individual of the society, as well as the State, must participate.

Remember the famous slogan of the 'New Frontier' of the JFK era; " Don't ask what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."
 
Last edited:
It is however not the government's responsibility to feed people who are unable to buy anything for themselves.

Yes I understand where you are coming from regarding this. You are correct that localised, charitable social institutions are much better equipped to deal with this (especially in efficient, expedient, locally-sensitive and responsive way)....and added benefit is they operate on the free-will concept. Thus it should not be strict govt responsiblity legally (in provision aspect, as it also sets the slipperly slope as to where does that govt provision then end?)

This is all the more apparent by the simple supply of food (which pakistan and the region more broadly has long addressed compared to scenario at independence) not being sufficient to the deeper rooted malnutrition and other forms of persistent poverty....and it is evidenced by Pakistan already having strict income poverty rate (governed/measured by basic supply of consumption liquidity) almost close to 0% now....for all intents and purposes.

What a govt can do however is collect the information/data as to the problems that are the crucial next phase past mere income/consumption poverty (i.e those out of income poverty but still in MPI poverty)...and direct specific attention and existing welfare schemes there (and improve on those). After adequate addressal of that over time, then move onto the next phase (i.e those that are no longer in MPI but just above and vulnerable to it etc). In this day and age of big-data, there is also much easier response/result analysis on offer too, especially with enough 3rd party (non-govt) transparent end-surveying etc and mechanism to feedback this to relevant govt institutions and organs.

This fits in well with what a govt responsibility is in the first place (in the broad libertarian sense of argument that both you and I seem to share broadly)....provision of that which regular society can not do well or optimally (classical examples are national defense + internal security, system of national standards, administration framework, institutional development, system of courts and law, large publicly funded + shared infra etc)....to me govt has the macro-data scope that no other social institution can quite get easily....and also quickest most relevant analysis of what interventions in any market-failures there are (in light of the longer gestational return to society economically and socially . i.e the resources saved in the long-run by even incremental improvement in the net efficiency of average day to day society/economy - this should be the driving basic intent of all democratic govt given the scale and vantage point it gets compared to those that elect it....that intrinsically elect it in a way for that very reason)
 
I supported PTI and they've destroyed this country.

Everywhere i go, inflation, poverty, businesses closing down, jobless people, shitty paying jobs.

Imran Kutta did it in 1 year with his incompetence and corruption. Even Asad Umar disagrees with IK and bashed his policies.

My Pakistan was a lot better even 1 year ago before i voted for this Kutta.

Go and ask any Pakistan on the streets in the poor to middle class, they will say Imran is a kutta.

Pakistan will be worse than African shitholes after 4 years at the rate IK is destroying it.



Why the hell would we, the common Pakistanis offer solutions?

The government took taxes from us now it is their responsibility to spend that tax money where it should be spent not on their lavish lifestyles.

Just nonsense.

Imran Khan is taxing the soul of Pakistanis unlike any government before and yet his supporters have the audacity to tell us to give solutions?

What are we, a bunch of idiots?

Taxes are Amanat not bank balances for Jehangir Khan Tareen, the PPP dirt.

But if Imran Khan is this useless as a person, give the power to someone else who has solutions.
So its ok for you to get loan and paying intrest(riba) as long as your life is good and econom looks good to you.
Buddy you have to understand life for muslim is never easy so take everything as challange cuesing someone will not get you anything even you cant get you anger out.. so better to do good than bad.
 
I had another thought. The sehat insaaf card should be given to every pregnant woman from the time she is pregnant through to 24 months after the birth for both mother and child. During this time they should have access to free medicine and hospital access so women can have scans, can have access to qualified midwifes and have access to any post natal care they recieve.

This will drastically cut down deaths caused by complications in pregnancy and infant mortality rates.
 

Latest posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom