'Over 10 million Karachiites missing in census': MQM-P, PSP reject results

[AUz]

You mean to tell me that funds generated from Karachi do not belong to Karachi? By that logic crops harvested in Punjab don't belong to Punjab, right?

Funds generated in Karachi would be taxed by the government. Tax revenues would be distributed all over Pakistan. Furthermore, just because the funds are created in Karachi, does not mean people get to use all of that in Karachi. Some national company can have operations all over Pakistan, but headquarters in Karachi. And all the revenue data comes to Karach HQ. Does it mean all the revenue was generated in karachi? No, even though in accounting terms, Karachi would be shown as having home to all that revenue.

We DO elect MQM, let us live with our decision, why do you have to impose your decisions on us? Nobody in Karachi demands ALL the funds, we just want our due share, given to the local government. You are Punjabi right? We have Baloch, Siraiki, Sindhi, Paktun etc., why can't you accept Mohajirs?

You can elect MQM trillion times. Nobody cares. What the rest of us care about is exortion, blackmailing, gang wars, targetting killing, and terrorism that MQM does. THAT is a problem.

An MQM that does not do any of that would be welcomed.

Secondly, Sindhi, Pakhtun etc are centuries old ethnic identities.....but "mohajirs" is no identity. Are you freaking refugee?! That's what mohajir means.

My grand parents also migrated from india---but we don't call ourselves mohajirs because even though my dada was a 'mohajir'---I am not.

Similarly, it is horrendous that people born and raised in Pakistan keep calling themselves "mohajirs"

But in our own country, we can have a separate identity right? And rape for MQM? that's a new one even for me, and I have heard so many of them. You have your Gullu Butts and your Model Towns, we have ours. Let us focus on our problems instead of invading each other's problems.

Offcourse, you can have your own identity but try not to put your ethnic identity ABOVE ALL AND EVERYTHING ELSE. Because other peoples in Pakistan do not do that generally. So you folks stand out in a very negative manner.

Secondly, don't equate gullu butts with organized extortion rings, raw-affiliated armed-to-teeth gang armies, and openly calling for breaking of Pakistan.

PML(N) is corrupt as f*ck...but MQM has proven to be more of a national security threat than any other party out there.

We do have something in common, we like Musharraf too. If you like him, you should trust his instincts and decisions on Karachi and MQM. Perhaps you Punjabis have not had to use ethnic terms because you are the dominant ethnicity and enjoy its merits above all others. But there you had to go and ruin a normal argument with the spitting thing, inherently I think you have a problem.

We are not the 'dominant' ethnicity. Punjabis are significantly poorer, less urbanized, less educated, and less wealthy than "Urdu speaking community".....so where does this 'dominant' thing comes in?

It's just that Punjabis generally are very open people--thanks to village environment I guess? People generally do not see others in terms of ethnicities and all. But due to behavior of some people who put ethnicty above all...you might see punjab turning more ethno-centric---and that'll be the biggest danger to our Islamic Republic.

Merit, nothing sounds better. But where is the merit when we have had the quota system since the past 40 years and it is still going strong.

As I said above to another poster...quota issue is Sindh's internal issue. Pakistan, Punjab, and anyone else has nothing to do with it.

It's MQM vs PPP issue---and both of them are worst of the worst parties in the country

I think I have explained our concerns more than enough times, its better if we get encouragement and assistance rather than ridicule and bad mouthing.

Let the full results of census come out--and hopefully then many things can be clarified. Officials responsible for the census should be question and should explain all questions and concerns on the television...so the situation is clarified.

 

[Mav3rick]

Funds generated in Karachi would be taxed by the government. Tax revenues would be distributed all over Pakistan. Furthermore, just because the funds are created in Karachi, does not mean people get to use all of that in Karachi. Some national company can have operations all over Pakistan, but headquarters in Karachi. And all the revenue data comes to Karach HQ. Does it mean all the revenue was generated in karachi? No, even though in accounting terms, Karachi would be shown as having home to all that revenue.

The point I tried to make was that it is unfair to suggest the fund generation mechanism and advantages a region/city has over others. The way Karachi generates funds is due to its unique geographic location; however, Karachi does not have fertile lands that Punjab has.

You can elect MQM trillion times. Nobody cares. What the rest of us care about is exortion, blackmailing, gang wars, targetting killing, and terrorism that MQM does. THAT is a problem.

An MQM that does not do any of that would be welcomed.

Let me start off by saying that a whole lot more has been affiliated with MQM than it deserves. Just like the Jinnahpur saga of early 90's. Gang wars is a term used for Liyari Gangs and PAC, not MQM. MQM can be blamed for Target Killings and extortion, just like the provincial and federal governments. The difference being, Governments have better names for extortion and Target Killings such as taxes and encounters.

P.S. MQM's welcome was rescinded the day MQM achieved more power than was envisaged by its creators. And I don't mean Altaf Hussain.

Secondly, Sindhi, Pakhtun etc are centuries old ethnic identities.....but "mohajirs" is no identity. Are you freaking refugee?! That's what mohajir means.

My grand parents also migrated from india---but we don't call ourselves mohajirs because even though my dada was a 'mohajir'---I am not.

Similarly, it is horrendous that people born and raised in Pakistan keep calling themselves "mohajirs"

In true translation of the word, Mohajir means a migrant and not a refugee. However, it can also be considered an identity instead of it's literal translation. We can call ourselves Urdu Speaking but it just doesn't have the same ring to it. So let's call it an ethnic identity rather than anything else.

Offcourse, you can have your own identity but try not to put your ethnic identity ABOVE ALL AND EVERYTHING ELSE. Because other peoples in Pakistan do not do that generally. So you folks stand out in a very negative manner.

Secondly, don't equate gullu butts with organized extortion rings, raw-affiliated armed-to-teeth gang armies, and openly calling for breaking of Pakistan.

PML(N) is corrupt as f*ck...but MQM has proven to be more of a national security threat than any other party out there.

We do not put our ethnic identity above National interests but we should be allowed to do that for internal and regional matters of our concern. It is very unfortunate that our voice is taken in a negative matter rather than it to be heard, understood and sympathized with. And all of it is related to the massive anti-MQM campaign that has been undertaken by the establishment and successive Governments over decades. The only respite was Musharraf era. Day and night you have been bombarded with anti-MQM propaganda to the point where lies and fabrication have overtaken truth and left you with hate which does not allow you to think logically.

Ofcourse, the Government has all the government machinery behind it to undertake its dirty work. The beauty of this is that the Government can make any one of us a tyrant, prove it and have us killed in an alleged encounter. MQM is no security threat, their own security is threatened when their workers and leaders are forced to live in exile, when the founder is driven to madness and when their workers are killed in alleged encounters. Think of it, the amount of weapons that have been recovered from MQM were enough to rage a frikken war, why weren't those weapons used by the thousands of RAW supported, India trained terrorists that MQM allegedly have? With such a force, any party could have turned Karachi a center of urban warfare. But the reality is that all workers of MQM are caught without resistance but eventually weapons are recovered from them, what a joke.

We are not the 'dominant' ethnicity. Punjabis are significantly poorer, less urbanized, less educated, and less wealthy than "Urdu speaking community".....so where does this 'dominant' thing comes in?

It's just that Punjabis generally are very open people--thanks to village environment I guess? People generally do not see others in terms of ethnicities and all. But due to behavior of some people who put ethnicty above all...you might see punjab turning more ethno-centric---and that'll be the biggest danger to our Islamic Republic.

Dominant as in population wise and so biggest share in National Assembly and largest NFC funds.

As I said above to another poster...quota issue is Sindh's internal issue. Pakistan, Punjab, and anyone else has nothing to do with it.

It's MQM vs PPP issue---and both of them are worst of the worst parties in the country

Quota is a National issue, that it is further sub-divided in Sindh is a different matter. But Quota in general murders merit. Any idea why the quota was introduced and who benefited most from it and who suffered most for it?

Let the full results of census come out--and hopefully then many things can be clarified. Officials responsible for the census should be question and should explain all questions and concerns on the television...so the situation is clarified.

How can the final results be different from official preliminary results? The timing too is superb as the entire country is more focused on Donald Trump and overall US's new Pakistan-Afghanistan policy to focus too much on genuine concerns related to census results.

 

[asif1986]

They are doing this to Karachi by purpose. They did the same to East Pakistan in the early decades over its higher population. Now they've done fake census like they are using fake judiciary.

I fail to understand how millions of people have not been counted in karachi and sindh.The census results show sindh has had a higher average annual growth of 2.41% against punjabs 2.13%.During 2013 elections sindh had less than 20 million registered voters with karachi having about 7 million.

 

[Mav3rick]

Heathrow Airport in the London borough of Heathrow is the site of one of the largest international airports. 10s of millions of people from all over the world coming to UK land there and millions of Britons from all over UK go abroad from there. According to your logic all the revenue generated by Heathrow airport belongs to Borough of Heathrow?

Karachi is just a outlet/inlet for 200 million people - it is so because of geography. If Karachi was cut off all of Pakistans trade went through Mumbai Karachi's economy would collapse. I think this model below should sum up the situation nicely.

Please read my post above for answer to your post. In short, all regions exploit their strengths to their advantage. However, all proceeds should go to a central depository from which funds should be disbursed fairly across the entire country.

P.S. Mumbai is not ideally located to assist with trade for Pakistan, Karachi is the best location.

 

[Thanatos]

Official Karachi Population is just 14.9m?

Thats because they have only released results of Karachi Urban. Karachi rural has grown exponentially. Lets wait for the results to come out.

Lol, just bc census results are not according to the fantasies of some idiots, now entire exercise is fake?

The officials have explained the reason for Karachi's "low" numbers. In Lahore, all the rural areas are also included in population count under the "Lahore city".....however, Karachi's adjacent rural districts are not counted under "Karachi city population"....hence you have the disparity in pop growth numbers for Lahore and Karachi. It's very simple to understand but they just don't want to.

If you add all rural districts and small adjacent populations under one big category I.e Karachi---then you'd have a near 20 million population instead of the current 14 million.

How hard it is to understand this basic fact. Indians for no reason always get excited when they hear any controversy in Pakistan.

 

[Mav3rick]

Because it actually doesn't generate anything, crops are real which you eat. Taxes generated are because of 200 million Pakistanis and not any MQM minions. Tax doesn't grow on trees. Karachi doesn't even have water. Sindh gov is demanding 1200 cusecs extra water from punjab share for Karachi because apparently its mini-Pakistan with 100 million people. A lie everyone believed before this census.

I would love to see Karachi contribution to industrial exports which isn't dependent on raw material from rest of Pakistan or isn't made to use locally for market of 200 million. As far as remittances are concerned Karachi again well behind everyone else. What ever taxes are generated are because of import, export being only port city. Karachi could cease to exist and replaced by Gwadar or Kenti Bandar and it wouldn't make any difference.

So, in your opinion, proceeds from services should have different rules from proceeds of cultivation? Karachi is paying for its water, its electricity and its food to Sindh, Punjab etc., we don't get anything in barter or goodwill like the rest of the country gets most of its revenue from Karachi. And just as Karachi doesn't have water, Punjab doesn't have a port and thus no natural way of trade with the rest of the world. See, it just doesn't work the way you want it to work, there is give and take but it has to be fair. Just FYI, Karachi is indeed mini-Pakistan with atleast 12-15% population of the entire country.

Japan is one of the best examples to answer the 2nd para of your post, it does not produce anything and has to import everything but is a power house because of what it does with its import of raw material. Karachi behind everyone in terms of remittances? What a joke, it tells me how much you know about Pakistan in general and Karachi in particular. And if it were possible to replace Karachi by Gawadar, it would have been done by the British, before you ever dreamt of it. In essence, you try to minimize the critical position of Karachi to Pakistan but end up coming out as an ignorant and a hate monger.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

However, all proceeds should go to a central depository from which funds should be disbursed fairly across the entire country.

Agreed. Karachi is the entrepot for over 200 million people - thus the federal angle to it.

P.S. Mumbai is not ideally located to assist with trade for Pakistan, Karachi is the best location.

Million years ago geography blessed Karsachi with the location, location, location. I already mentioned that. I gave Mumbai as a example. Before Sindh was made "British India" in 1843 Mumbai [Bombay] serviced the western hinterland of the British Empire. When Charles Napier conquered Sindh he saw that Karachi was ideal point to service the entire Indus region - soon the British developed it and rest is history.

 

[Hamzay]

I fail to understand how millions of people have not been counted in karachi and sindh.The census results show sindh has had a higher average annual growth of 2.41% against punjabs 2.13%.During 2013 elections sindh had less than 20 million registered voters with karachi having about 7 million.

Well, it's about Karachi. Karachi is being treated by the Punjab/Military establishment the way they treated East Pakistan before it was seceded. Karachi is different in that it has no separatist elements. But the Punjab dominated governments do not want to give Karachi a leverage in the Central government. Karachi will be given less number of Parliamentary seats according to the 'new population' and will also receive less funds than are actually required for the development of actual number of people living in here.

 

[defence_analyst]

So, in your opinion, proceeds from services should have different rules from proceeds of cultivation? Karachi is paying for its water, its electricity and its food to Sindh, Punjab etc., we don't get anything in barter or goodwill like the rest of the country gets most of its revenue from Karachi. And just as Karachi doesn't have water, Punjab doesn't have a port and thus no natural way of trade with the rest of the world. See, it just doesn't work the way you want it to work, there is give and take but it has to be fair. Just FYI, Karachi is indeed mini-Pakistan with atleast 12-15% population of the entire country.

Japan is one of the best examples to answer the 2nd para of your post, it does not produce anything and has to import everything but is a power house because of what it does with its import of raw material. Karachi behind everyone in terms of remittances? What a joke, it tells me how much you know about Pakistan in general and Karachi in particular. And if it were possible to replace Karachi by Gawadar, it would have been done by the British, before you ever dreamt of it. In essence, you try to minimize the critical position of Karachi to Pakistan but end up coming out as an ignorant and a hate monger.

Service industry is dependent on industrial, agriculture, remittances, export revenues, imports etc Where Karachi share is negligible as a whole on its own. There is a reason whole tussle between MQM and PPP started over quota in "GOVERNMENT JOBS". Karachi pays for food in rupees, could it pay in dollars? Not really as it doesn't generate much foreign exchange. Karachi isn't paying for water to Sindh, Punjab. It comes with package.

10 Karachi like ports can be build along coastal region. Gwadar will soon start working and Sindh gov is developing Kenti Bander. No other country in the world only have single port city for country of 215 million. That was the reason in 70's huge chunk of industry was moved to Karachi, being near port meant less money spent on transporting. Or even assembly of automobiles industry is all of in Karachi because of port but biggest market is punjab.

Japan is stupid comparison because unlike Karachi, Japan actually export to earn foreign exchange and with $ it can import what it need. What are you going to import with? Rupees? lol

Please read my post above for answer to your post. In short, all regions exploit their strengths to their advantage. However, all proceeds should go to a central depository from which funds should be disbursed fairly across the entire country.

P.S. Mumbai is not ideally located to assist with trade for Pakistan, Karachi is the best location.

That doesn't mean inventing imaginary population to take more share then deserved. If Karachi receive less then allocated quota after census then sure go ahead and protest. Its impossible for census teams and army missed half of Karachi. If census is done again in 1% of random blocks then difference will be less then 5%.

 

[asif1986]

Well, it's about Karachi. Karachi is being treated by the Punjab/Military establishment the way they treated East Pakistan before it was seceded. Karachi is different in that it has no separatist elements. But the Punjab dominated governments do not want to give Karachi a leverage in the Central government. Karachi will be given less number of Parliamentary seats according to the 'new population' and will also receive less funds than are actually required for the development of actual number of people living in here.

My fear is that the new population figures are not well off the mark in the case of sindh.The ECP voters lists and nadra CNIC data also point to this.Do you believe 10 million karachites are missing from the census.Thats too big a number to miss from one region.