Ouran and Siyer was the Elective in Turkish Schools

[DRaisinHerald]

i asked you whether you know or not? You are trying to prove me Allah exists.

Different way: do you know how the whole system works?

No I don't, hence why God encourages us to find out about the system he created

 

[Selim I]

Human is too small in capacity to understand Allah the Creator and the universe which is his creation.

Neither Selim nor Raisinherald know Allah, they cant even formulate some basic phisycal laws. Me neither. Even Einstein had limits. Allah Itself encourages us to learn, question. It only revelead limited knowledge to the prophets. Even the prophets didnt know everything. Because the only one with the truth is Allah the Creator.

And that is what makes Allah interesting. The One who created this whole limitless (literally limitless) universe. We only konw maybe 0,5%. There lies the knowledge beyond. As Quran Ta-ha surah 114 ayet says: ey Rab increase my knowledge.



i asked you whether you know or not? You are trying to prove me Allah exists.

Different way: do you know how the whole system works?

How do you know I can't formulate "some basic physical laws", it's actually pretty much my field, as I am studying mechanical engineering.

And that's neither the subject. Qur'an is not a novel and should not be misconcepted as a bestseller novel, nor is Qur'an a book of physical laws or mathmatics. But it contains alot of things from alot of subjects, including al-gebraic calculations and predictions, and the system of the earth and universe. Surah Ar-Rahman tells us about the stars and the sun moving in an order:

55:5 - The sun and the moon [move] by precise calculation
56:6 - And the stars and trees prostrate.

Qur'an is a book of guidance and rules. The rulings of our God, Allah. Because he is the only one who is truly supreme, as I pasted his attributes.

Please read all of his attributes so you will have an understanding of your Lord. Because Allah gives us many information about himself in the Quran as his names.

Edit: Correction of Surah name

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Selim I, i think Draisinherald understood.

Your weakness is philosophy, my weakness is mechanical enginnering.

 

[VelocuR]

Not only this, Allah already explained the details of what happened in the past, every details and facts. That's proof alot. To Turks belief, Moses, Noah, Jesus, Adam, Muhammad and others are fakes, Ataturk is real. If Allah is non-exist or false god, there will be no 1.5+ billions Muslims today.

It is some people in the whole world who doubt it, Allah said so be it.

 

[Selim I]

Selim I, i think Draisinherald understood.

Your weakness is philosophy, my weakness is mechanical enginnering.

I love philosphy, and that's my field of interest. I doubt my weakness is philosophy.

I just answered your falsy statement.

I didn't answer your question of:

" do you know how the whole system works?"

No, no human does. Only Allah (Swt) knows how his entire system runs and works. But humans together can strive for knowledge and information, and find out alot of things of the creation of Allah (swt).

Your first and last questions are different by the way.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Your first and last questions are different by the way.

Do you know Allah?

Do you know how the system works?

Questions may seem different, but they are interconnected. There comes in place the science of thougt, philosophy.

Without knowing the whole system, you cant know or understand Allah. Maybe even if you know, you cant.

Only thing i know is that i know little to nothing.

 

[Selim I]

Do you know Allah?

Do you know how the system works?

Questions may seem different, but they are interconnected. There comes in place the science of thougt, philosophy.

Without knowing the whole system, you cant know or understand Allah. Maybe even if you know, you cant.

Only thing i know is that i know little to nothing.

2 entirely different questions. I'ts like asking: "Do you know your computer", and "Do you know how the system of your computer works?" as in the system of programming language and codes. Yes I know my computer, I know how fast it is and what it can do, I know the abilities of it, its strength's and weaknesses. But I don't know how they programmed the operativ system of it.

As referral, I know Allah (swt) and his attributes, his power and mercy, I know he is the protector and the one who witnesses the saying and deeds of His creations. I know he is the compeller, and that nothing in his dominion happens except that He willed.
I know he is truly the creator, who created everything out of nothing. I know he is the bestower, the one who gives without any return. I know he is the provider and the sustainer. I know He is the All-Knowing. The Knowledgeable; The One nothing is absent from His knowledge. He is truly Allah, the everlasting creator, the God of all creations.

What I don't know is, the matrice of his system how it works. And why it works the way it does. As in the operativ system of my computer, I don't know the programming language it was programmed on and the codes and formulas behind it.
But I know my computer exists, and I know its attributes.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

it is not the challenge i do. Just brain storming.

You are comparing computer to Allah. Even the human brain is far greater than computer if trained to work correctly.

When you say You know Allah, i find it unreal. If that wisdom would have been so easy to achieve, Muslims would have been 1st in the space race. But capitalists and communists did it.

Muslims just bow to the allmighty Creator- Allah, and without even looking whats going on outer space. They ( i exclude myself here, cause i do search for the knowledge) leave it hoping to know the truth in the afterlife. While in eartly life, Muslims still stand backward behind other civilizations.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

it is not the challenge i do. Just brain storming.

You are comparing computer to Allah. Even the human brain is far greater than computer if trained to work correctly.

When you say You know Allah, i find it unreal. If that wisdom would have been so easy to achieve, Muslims would have been 1st in the space race. But capitalists and communists did it.

Muslims just bow to the allmighty Creator- Allah, and without even looking whats going on outer space. They ( i exclude myself here, cause i do search for the knowledge) leave it hoping to know the truth in the afterlife. While in eartly life, Muslims still stand backward behind other civilizations.

Find one big mistake in your post?

You say Muslims don't make research, study etc. Are you really this myopic to oversee or maybe forget that Muslims actually lead science, medicine, technology from 7th well into 15th century? Here have a look Timeline of science and engineering in the Islamic world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Science in the medieval Islamic world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Medicine in the medieval Islamic world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Just because there are poor and underdeveloped Muslim countries does not equal Muslims are stupid, as you try to indicate. Muslims do not stand backward behind other civilizations, there are many Muslim scientist that are groundbreaking in their respective fields. You try very hard to sound philosophical but you make incredibly stupid errors while trying.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Find one big mistake in your post?

You say Muslims don't make research, study etc. Are you really this myopic to oversee or maybe forget that Muslims actually lead science, medicine, technology from 7th well into 15th century? Here have a look Timeline of science and engineering in the Islamic world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Science in the medieval Islamic world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Medicine in the medieval Islamic world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[while trying.

Quick to judge my stupidness?!

Islamic world was not the same in the early ages. There was No strong scolastic doctrine that rules the society. There were philoshopers who think.

Did you know Ulug Bey grandson of Timur was ahead of Copernicus of Europe in astronomy? Yeah those were enlightment age of Islam.

Then came dark age. Mongol invasion, devastating Crusades, Backward mentalities which forbid thought.

Please read Takiyuddin which founded a Rasathane and how his space research Center was demolished. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqi_al-Din_Muhammad_ibn_Ma%27ruf

Muslims can be proud of what they did. Also muslims should be ashamed of current situation.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Quick to judge my stupidness?!

Islamic world was not the same in the early ages. There was No strong scolastic doctrine that rules the society. There were philoshopers who think.

Did you know Ulug Bey grandson of Timur was ahead of Copernicus of Europe in astronomy? Yeah those were enlightment age of Islam.

Then came dark age. Mongol invasion, devastating Crusades, Backward mentalities which forbid thought.

Please read Takiyuddin which founded a Rasathane and how his space research Center was demolished. Taqi al-Din Muhammad ibn Ma'ruf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslims can be proud of what they did. Also muslims should be ashamed of current situation.

When you write things like this:

"Muslims just bow to the allmighty Creator- Allah, and without even looking whats going on outer space. They ( i exclude myself here, cause i do search for the knowledge) leave it hoping to know the truth in the afterlife. While in eartly life, Muslims still stand backward behind other civilizations."

A person who can actually think will reach to a simple conclusion after reading the above: you must either be extremely arrogant, or extremely myopic. You infer that Muslims are ignorant while you exclude yourself from that lot, true ignorance is what you just did. You think you are above the average Muslim while you degrade Muslims with untrue statements.

Again i don't say you are faulty. The real faulty thing is the system of education in Turkey, education needs complete revival, because it simply fails.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

When you write things like this:

A person who can actually think will reach to a simple conclusion after reading the above: you must either be extremely arrogant, or extremely myopic. You infer that Muslims are ignorant while you exclude yourself from that lot, true ignorance is what you just did. You think you are above the average Muslim while you degrade Muslims with untrue statements.

You are blind with false doctrines. For you have only whites and blacks. Enlarge your perspective, dont seek faults of others, but seek yours.

Mevlana has a pair of words: insanlar seni yanlış anladığında dert etme, duydukları senin sesin, akıllarından geçenler onların düşünceleri.

When ppl understands you wrongly, dont worry. What they hear is your voice. What they think is their thoughts.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

You are blind with false doctrines. For you have only whites and blacks. Enlarge your perspective, dont seek faults of others, but seek yours.

Mevlana has a pair of words: insanlar seni yanlış anladığında dert etme, duydukları senin sesin, akıllarından geçenler onların düşünceleri.

When ppl understands you wrongly, dont worry. What they hear is your voice. What they think is their thoughts.

Are you serious? Turn back to reality, the one who calls all Muslims ignorant and then excluding himself from them is you, not me.Let me put it this way since you have a hard time understanding: Muslims are vast, instead of calling them all ignorant who is backwards etc. maybe stop generalizing and stop thinking you are the only Muslim in world who is enlightened/special.

 

[Armstrong]

Quick to judge my stupidness?!

Islamic world was not the same in the early ages. There was No strong scolastic doctrine that rules the society. There were philoshopers who think.

Did you know Ulug Bey grandson of Timur was ahead of Copernicus of Europe in astronomy? Yeah those were enlightment age of Islam.

Then came dark age. Mongol invasion, devastating Crusades, Backward mentalities which forbid thought.

Please read Takiyuddin which founded a Rasathane and how his space research Center was demolished. Taqi al-Din Muhammad ibn Ma'ruf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslims can be proud of what they did. Also muslims should be ashamed of current situation.

Actually, Iqbal - the poet philosopher of Pakistan and the foremost champion of Muslim Revival in our part of the world - made similar deductions that at the end of the Abassid Caliphate our teaching methodologies changed for the worse and we gave up Ijtehad (Human Reasoning), Philosophical thought and Critique for ill-advised adherence to Jurisprudence only and later Taqlid (Imitation) and thats the reason, according to him, as to why and where we went wrong. Iqbal in his 'Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam' writes (I'm paraphrasing of course !) that some of the best and brightest minds of Muslimdom were repulsed by the rigid and parochial attitude of the Orthodox clergy and were lost (as he put it) to the un-dogmatic liberty of Sufism. And he thinks thats where the balance was disturbed because you need both dimensions - that of this world (Mainstream Religion) and that of the other (Mysticism) - to function properly as a society. The majority of the Muslims who, despite being drawn to Sufism, couldn't prescribe to its esoteric and dervish culture and needed some worldly guidance, were left in the pangs of mediocrity because excellent scholarship of before was drying up and the Muslim Intellectual Community wasn't producing men of excellence anymore and thats where Taqlid or Imitation of the Works of Scholars took root and in time our individual and collective ability to Ijtihad was deeply injured till a time when Muslims were engaged in mindless imitation of traditions and works of many, many years ago who were in dire need of a reassessment due to changing times and circumstances but alas we had forgotten how to 'think'. I believe some of that trend is starting to reverse in modern times however the unfortunate side of it is that the reinterpretation is, at times, so drastic that we hear people talking about how, for example, homosexuality is perfectly compatible with Islam and the sort.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

@ Armstrong

Friend, you have patience to write so long and mind clearing post. I thank you for your explanation.

Patience is not a virtue that i possess.