Our heroes need to be respected 💪

[Meengla]

Few things
If you could answer how many Militaries in the world run these sides business ?
Why most of this is only in the countries under the thumb of dictators, but you wanna know the side effects of these economic activities.
Major of Retired army officers hold chairs in state orgs now when these business compete against private businesses they get better subsidy and cut them off before they go, and these funds dont go back to public they go back to military pockets if Army does run multi billion dollar empire why they need billions from States


What about military interfering and rigging elections for ayub, bhutto, against benzair how Nawaz family was brought into politics, what happened in 90s in karachi, and still going on in Balochistan now in NWFP & Punjab.

The military isn't involved because of security concerns mostly it gets involved when it's business gets in jeopardy...so of any govt tries to reign the military inc it will be toppled be it taxation reforms or opening up the economy or privitzation
E.g NLC FWO will never allow a foreign organization to work
Fauhi foundation will call taxation unacceptable as it's "foundation" so it can sell it's cement and cereals tax free

Both of you exaggerate the 'Military Inc' enterprises. I have no personal reason to support the Pakistani military except I know that once you remove the last bastion of stability and security then Pakistan would be truly 'done'--which seems to be a 'wish' in many PTI fanbois still infected with the Imrandoo Virus (not saying you two are!). I graduated from Karachi University in 1990. In the [unofficial] Year Book, one question was 'Who do you hate most?'. My answer was 'Pakistani Military Generals'. But since then I don't hate them anymore. They have a place in the Pakistani society and will remain until there is peace between India and Pakistan. And who the hell are the Generals anyway? They ARE from the Pakistani society--from a Musharraf in Karachi to someone from Chakwal to someone from Khyber Pakthoonkhwa. It is a myth that they are separate from 'Pakistan'. They are just as good and bad as the rest of the Pakistani society.

As for the various 'businesses' run by the military: I wish they didn't but, on the whole, their affects on Pakistan are not as toxic as people say. People used to Pooh Pooh a certain lady author (forgetting her name--some Dr. Zubaida or Aisha?) who wrote a book about military businesses some years ago. But since the Imrandoo Virus Epidemic, the same people follow her logic. It is unbecoming of educated people to follow a personality to the point of cultism. I don't even consider Mr. Jinnah to be without flaws and in contrast a stupid charlatan like Imran Khan deserves contempt and his followers need some therapy.

 

[ziaulislam]

Both of you exaggerate the 'Military Inc' enterprises. I have no personal reason to support the Pakistani military except I know that once you remove the last bastion of stability and security then Pakistan would be truly 'done'--which seems to be a 'wish' in many PTI fanbois still infected with the Imrandoo Virus (not saying you two are!). I graduated from Karachi University in 1990. In the [unofficial] Year Book, one question was 'Who do you hate most?'. My answer was 'Pakistani Military Generals'. But since then I don't hate them anymore. They have a place in the Pakistani society and will remain until there is peace between India and Pakistan. And who the hell are the Generals anyway? They ARE from the Pakistani society--from a Musharraf in Karachi to someone from Chakwal to someone from Khyber Pakthoonkhwa. It is a myth that they are separate from 'Pakistan'. They are just as good and bad as the rest of the Pakistani society.

As for the various 'businesses' run by the military: I wish they didn't but, on the whole, their affects on Pakistan are not as toxic as people say. People used to Pooh Pooh a certain lady author (forgetting her name--some Dr. Zubaida or Aisha?) who wrote a book about military businesses some years ago. But since the Imrandoo Virus Epidemic, the same people follow her logic. It is unbecoming of educated people to follow a personality to the point of cultism. I don't even consider Mr. Jinnah to be without flaws and in contrast a stupid charlatan like Imran Khan deserves contempt and his followers need some therapy.

Everyone knew about military inc and nobody minded it of it comes second to the country

The problem is it seems now it comes first

The country can go bankrupt but as long as military inc survives the military is okay with it .

Best example is IMF deal in limbo

 

[PWFI]

Happy Father days to all Youthyaas

 

[Darth Vader]

Both of you exaggerate the 'Military Inc' enterprises. I have no personal reason to support the Pakistani military except I know that once you remove the last bastion of stability and security then Pakistan would be truly 'done'--which seems to be a 'wish' in many PTI fanbois still infected with the Imrandoo Virus (not saying you two are!). I graduated from Karachi University in 1990. In the [unofficial] Year Book, one question was 'Who do you hate most?'. My answer was 'Pakistani Military Generals'. But since then I don't hate them anymore. They have a place in the Pakistani society and will remain until there is peace between India and Pakistan. And who the hell are the Generals anyway? They ARE from the Pakistani society--from a Musharraf in Karachi to someone from Chakwal to someone from Khyber Pakthoonkhwa. It is a myth that they are separate from 'Pakistan'. They are just as good and bad as the rest of the Pakistani society.

As for the various 'businesses' run by the military: I wish they didn't but, on the whole, their affects on Pakistan are not as toxic as people say. People used to Pooh Pooh a certain lady author (forgetting her name--some Dr. Zubaida or Aisha?) who wrote a book about military businesses some years ago. But since the Imrandoo Virus Epidemic, the same people follow her logic. It is unbecoming of educated people to follow a personality to the point of cultism. I don't even consider Mr. Jinnah to be without flaws and in contrast a stupid charlatan like Imran Khan deserves contempt and his followers need some therapy.

They live in same societies ?
How about you try entering a cantt without claiming you know some1 in military than we can talk if they live in same society.

Problem is this military logic India you need military, otherwise Pakistan will be eaten alive.
No person with sanity will say Pakistan doesnt need military but military need to understand its role they are the protectors of borders not the rulers.

Remember French / Inglo war how many centuries it went on and whats the current state now.

At this stage it has nothing to Imran, its the constitutional right of People of Pakistan to ask for elections.

Hey if you are happy licking generals & PDM's boot good on you

 

[Mav3rick]

Yeah, no. Please wait a generation or two before public can buy this again.

We are where we are because of the land grabbing, power hungry duffers who didn’t even spare the mother of nation.

Was the land grabbing now going on under Imran Khan? Was any check and balance on Army introduced by Imran Khan under his tenure? Was not the head of almost every department, division and organization posted from the Army, retired mostly? What was the difference really under Imran Khan???

 

[Jf Thunder]

Was the land grabbing now going on under Imran Khan? Was any check and balance on Army introduced by Imran Khan under his tenure? Was not the head of almost every department, division and organization posted from the Army, retired mostly? What was the difference really under Imran Khan???

thats the part I agree with
I am afraid, if Imran comes to power again, he might go and sit in the lap of the military again
and all the PTI fanboys, will become Army fanboys once again.

The looser will again be, Pakistan.

 

[Mav3rick]

thats the part I agree with
I am afraid, if Imran comes to power again, he might go and sit in the lap of the military again
and all the PTI fanboys, will become Army fanboys once again.

The looser will again be, Pakistan.

I am very very critical of Imran Khan, and one of the biggest reason is that I believe he could have made a difference. He could have eventually made Pakistan into a mini super power and could have gotten rid of the likes of Nawaz and Zardari for good and that too through the ballot.

What an opportunity missed!!!

 

[RashidKhanTheLegend]

youthias did not even spare Karnal Sher Khan shaheed Monument..such a shaheed that even Indian army said give him gallantry..

Uska bhi yaadgaar tod dea youthia log..

 

[Meengla]

They live in same societies ?
How about you try entering a cantt without claiming you know some1 in military than we can talk if they live in same society.

Problem is this military logic India you need military, otherwise Pakistan will be eaten alive.
No person with sanity will say Pakistan doesnt need military but military need to understand its role they are the protectors of borders not the rulers.

Bolded part: Yes, absolutely. The military and the Pakistani society are one and the same. One can rise to be a General from anywhere and enjoy the 'perks' and the 'exclusivity' etc. But that right is given to every Pakistani. Maybe more to Punjab and K-P but that's because of cultural differences between Sindh (both rural and urban) and northern Pakistan.
The Pakistani military is a mirror of Pakistan's society!!! Just because a mentally deranged, opportunistic pathological liar Imran Khan, who was on the 'same page' and was calling Bajwa a 'Baap' (father) of Pakistan, doesn't change the fundamental nature of Pakistani military. Imran turned against the military simply because the military stopped supporting Imran. And I bet if/when the military lets Imran comes back to power the anti-Establishment rhetoric will change.

 

[RashidKhanTheLegend]

Bolded part: Yes, absolutely. The military and the Pakistani society are one and the same. One can rise to be a General from anywhere and enjoy the 'perks' and the 'exclusivity' etc. But that right is given to every Pakistani. Maybe more to Punjab and K-P but that's because of cultural differences between Sindh (both rural and urban) and northern Pakistan.
The Pakistani military is a mirror of Pakistan's society!!! Just because a mentally deranged, opportunistic pathological liar Imran Khan, who was on the 'same page' and was calling Bajwa a 'Baap' (father) of Pakistan, doesn't change the fundamental nature of Pakistani military. Imran turned against the military simply because the military stopped supporting Imran. And I bet if/when the military lets Imran comes back to power the anti-Establishment rhetoric will change.

Military did not outright stop supporting IK...

IK knowingly, consciously sought to drive a wedge between army leadership and enjoy his fruits.. Faiz Hamid closeness etc..now there is court martial of many officers who were sympathetic to Khan... Aftab Iqbal..himself an Army son.. was vouching for Khan... But suddenly turned Lukewarm..

Major Adil Raja family also support IK.. if not phool support.. atleast sympathetic

Also he said openly in Jalsas that Army families love him a lot ...

But him reaching Russia just on the day of Ukraine invasion was a major blunder that he did . This irked USA and finally USA and Estb. Worked together to drive him out..

 

[Meengla]

I am very very critical of Imran Khan, and one of the biggest reason is that I believe he could have made a difference. He could have eventually made Pakistan into a mini super power and could have gotten rid of the likes of Nawaz and Zardari for good and that too through the ballot.
What an opportunity missed!!!

I am with you on this! The reason I am so much against Imran since April 2022 is because I feel my own intellect deceived me: Believing in a deranged person like him for so long.
Imran, in 2018, had Erdogan of 2003 as a path forward and Nawaz Sharif (multiple times) as a warning. There were lessons to be learned from both. But... just look at his blunders! When I say he was the dumbest leader of any country in modern human history for a country the size and vulnerabilities like Pakistan then I mean that!

 

[Meengla]

Military did not outright stop supporting IK...

IK knowingly, consciously sought to drive a wedge between army leadership and enjoy his fruits.. Faiz Hamid closeness etc..now there is court martial of many officers who were sympathetic to Khan... Aftab Iqbal..himself an Army son.. was vouching for Khan... But suddenly turned Lukewarm..

Correct!!!
Between April 2022 and 9 May 2023, Imran Khan was given a lot of soft-hand. Altaf Hussein was banished based on one speech. Nawaz Sharif was kicked out based on some 'Aqama' (btw, I hate NS!). ZAB was literally hanged based on circumstantial evidence. But Imran kept openly insulting the most powerful institution in Pakistan for over a year and got away with that. The Opposition to Imran rightly claimed that Imran was still a 'Laadla' (a favored one) and that was because the Imrandoo Virus had infected even the military minds--until 9 May 2023.
And now we have General Zia ul Haq reborn and he is the most ruthless COAS since Zia and is doing what he's doing and must do. Cleanse the Imrandoo Virus. Pakistan's foreign backers want Imran's anarchy gone. I believe the ongoing events have China's backing, if not prodding.

 

[Mav3rick]

I am with you on this! The reason I am so much against Imran since April 2022 is because I feel my own intellect deceived me: Believing in a deranged person like him for so long.
Imran, in 2018, had Erdogan of 2003 as a path forward and Nawaz Sharif (multiple times) as a warning. There were lessons to be learned from both. But... just look at his blunders! When I say he was the dumbest leader of any country in modern human history for a country the size and vulnerabilities like Pakistan then I mean that!

I wonder how much of a role in all this has been played by Pinky Peerni. Ever since she entered Imran Khan's life, the man has gone down the gutter. He was also egoistic and perhaps weak minded in spiritual matters but the way Peerni has manipulated Imran Khan, apparently, it is unbelievable. And I think most of Imran's blunders are because of Peerni and not because of Imran himself.

Correct!!!
Between April 2022 and 9 May 2023, Imran Khan was given a lot of soft-hand. Altaf Hussein was banished based on one speech. Nawaz Sharif was kicked out based on some 'Aqama' (btw, I hate NS!). ZAB was literally hanged based on circumstantial evidence. But Imran kept openly insulting the most powerful institution in Pakistan for over a year and got away with that. The Opposition to Imran rightly claimed that Imran was still a 'Laadla' (a favored one) and that was because the Imrandoo Virus had infected even the military minds--until 9 May 2023.
And now we have General Zia ul Haq reborn and he is the most ruthless COAS since Zia and is doing what he's doing and must do. Cleanse the Imrandoo Virus. Pakistan's foreign backers want Imran's anarchy gone. I believe the ongoing events have China's backing, if not prodding.

I think the foreign backers have their own agendas to protect. IMF and the US are clearly favouring Imran Khan over the current regime and most likely because of the coziness this lot has with China and because of CPEC. The CPEC which has not produced anything of worth for Pakistan other than mountains of promises has now started to make even me wonder why we are so much in China's camp as opposed to the US camp with good relations with China.

 

[Meengla]

I wonder how much of a role in all this has been played by Pinky Peerni. Ever since she entered Imran Khan's life, the man has gone down the gutter. He was also egoistic and perhaps weak minded in spiritual matters but the way Peerni has manipulated Imran Khan, apparently, it is unbelievable. And I think most of Imran's blunders are because of Peerni and not because of Imran himself.

I have been resisting commenting on Imran's wife. The Noonies are very good at dirty propaganda against women and I was not going to easily fall for truly bizarre claims about Bushra Bibi. But multiple accounts are saying something odd about Imran's wife's superstitious, even magical ways. There is probably some truth about Bushra Bibi and I also think having people like Farah Gogi amassing wealth in real estate in Imran's inner circle was a very bad choice by Imran.
But for a so-called Oxford Univ. graduate who 'knows the West' well, to fall for such superstitions?? That's very low.

 

[PakFactor]

I wonder how much of a role in all this has been played by Pinky Peerni. Ever since she entered Imran Khan's life, the man has gone down the gutter. He was also egoistic and perhaps weak minded in spiritual matters but the way Peerni has manipulated Imran Khan, apparently, it is unbelievable. And I think most of Imran's blunders are because of Peerni and not because of Imran himself.


I think the foreign backers have their own agendas to protect. IMF and the US are clearly favouring Imran Khan over the current regime and most likely because of the coziness this lot has with China and because of CPEC. The CPEC which has not produced anything of worth for Pakistan other than mountains of promises has now started to make even me wonder why we are so much in China's camp as opposed to the US camp with good relations with China.

As @ziaulislam and I discussed last week in another thread, you build infrastructure around the economy you want to develop. CPEC will always fail because you have no adequate end-user to utilize these multi-billion dollar development projects.

As we are currently seeing, many fail to consider how the Chinese are healing the wedge between Iran and Saudi and the Chinese are pouring billions into Iran. While you all bicker about political engineering, the Chinese have moved on ahead; at this point, they do not care for Pakistan. The clues were there during Bajwa's visit to China, and those with inside sources will tell you how it went down and the butt hurt Bajwa experienced.

The Pakistanis play a short game overall, while the world runs circles around Pakistanis in the long-term game.

So far, I'm correct in my assessments of Pakistan's economy and other areas; my only error isn't considering the military interference at this level, which caused me financial damage. But it's now having me recalculate things and pull out after re-evaluating stuff. It's a sinking ship. Those Pakistani's who's funds I was managing and investing are now grilling me for not considering this. However, I told them your generation experienced this, and for us, it's a first-hand experience, and adjustments will be made.