Our Hero Is Raja Dahir Not Muhammad Bin Qasim, Haji Adeel- ANP

[Awesome]

It is no hidden fact that the heroes on Pakistan's side are always the villains on the Indian side and vice versa.

If you read Akbar's stories, In Pakistan Faizi and Fazal are the heroes, and in India Birbal is the hero, sometimes the others are villains. One must always learn to separate romanticism and propaganda out of these tales.

 

[RobbieS]

I have been taught to support the truth and truth only. I would support my enemy's son and not my brother if i think my enemy's son is right. I don't mind living under the leadership of non-muslim ruler as long as he is an honest man. But here its completely otherway around.

I don't support anyone blindly........... I have been taught to support the Honest man only and not anybody who is from my city/country

Lovely idealistic thoughts. I couldn't agree more.

But here's where ancient historical events come into the picture. The Arabs as we know were invaders. They captured an area equal to half the known world including Sindh through bloodshed. Now as history (more so for ancient history as it happened much earlier) is written by the victors and as such glorifies them. Even if my ruler was cruel and attacked their caravans (allegedly) they would still remain as invaders. And being invaders I'd suspect them to come up with excuses for invasions.

 

[RobbieS]

It is no hidden fact that the heroes on Pakistan's side are always the villains on the Indian side and vice versa.

If you read Akbar's stories, In Pakistan Faizi and Fazal are the heroes, and in India Birbal is the hero, sometimes the others are villains. One must always learn to separate romanticism and propaganda out of these tales.

Birbal is nowhere counted as a hero. Much less a military one. He is mentioned as court noble famous for his wit. And yes we are taught about Faizi and Fazal but nowhere in a negative way.

 

[Hyde]

It is no hidden fact that the heroes on Pakistan's side are always the villains on the Indian side and vice versa.

If you read Akbar's stories, In Pakistan Faizi and Fazal are the heroes, and in India Birbal is the hero, sometimes the others are villains. One must always learn to separate romanticism and propaganda out of these tales.

Very true

Aurangzaib is considered as a hero among common Pakistanis and villain in India. All Muslim invaders like Muhammad bin Qasim, Sultan Mahmood Ghaznvi are considered heros in Pakistan and Villain in India.

And not to forget Krishna Raja ("Hyder Ali" - Father of Tipu Sultan defeated him) is considered Villain in Pakistan and Hero in India

 

[Areesh]

Ignoring the lame troll by the indian members I want to talk about this jerk named as Haji Adeel.

We have seen many suicide attacks in Pakistan but aren't we lucky enough to see a single suicide attack on this idiot Haji Adeel. First he said BS about Pakistan, then he said some thing about Quaid e Azam and later apologize for it and now this Muhammad Bin Qasim rant. I want to see him killed. Enough is enough.



Sorry I may sound very rude but I want to see this guys either out of Pakistan or his grave in Pakistan.

 

[shining eyes]

Lovely idealistic thoughts. I couldn't agree more.

But here's where ancient historical events come into the picture. The Arabs as we know were invaders. They captured an area equal to half the known world including Sindh through bloodshed. Now as history (more so for ancient history as it happened much earlier) is written by the victors and as such glorifies them. Even if my ruler was cruel and attacked their caravans (allegedly) they would still remain as invaders. And being invaders I'd suspect them to come up with excuses for invasion

green part so true
they also bashed their enemies and sheded the blood of their enemies(armies) cz u cant win a practical military battle without bloodshed!!

 

[RobbieS]

Very true

And not to forget Krishna Raja ("Hyder Ali" - Father of Tipu Sultan defeated him) is considered Villain in Pakistan and Hero in India

Wrong again. Check your sources my friend. Hyder Ali is not shown as a villain in India. We had a TV show on DD on Tipu Sultan where Hyder ALi was shown as a patriot and a military genius. That would hardly happen in a national govt. owned broadcaster if he was considered a villain.

But I must add, certain sections of the Keralite community, do consider him as a villain as he allegedly destroyed a lot of non-Islamic religious places during his invasion of Kerala.

 

[RobbieS]

green part so true
they also bashed their enemies and sheded the blood of their enemies(armies) cz u cant win a practical military battle without bloodshed!!

Yup. In that regard I am sure you identify with Alexander of Macedonia as well. He also killed a lot of your own people in the Punjab and Swat during his invasions. He defeated the pagan Porous as well. Oh, by the way Alexander was a Pagan as well.

 

[Raghu]

Very true


And not to forget Krishna Raja ("Hyder Ali" - Father of Tipu Sultan defeated him) is considered Villain in Pakistan and Hero in India

Nobodys know which Krishna Raja u talking about and where u learned this aspect.

But let me tell u ,both Hyder Ali and Tipu Sultan are celebrated as heroes in India.We made TV serial on Tipu Sultan which was very popular . An Indian businessman called Vijay Malaya(a Hindu) spend three million $$ to win an auction of Tipu Sultans sword and brought it Bangalore.

 

[Hyde]

Wrong again. Check your sources my friend. Hyder Ali is not shown as a villain in India. We had a TV show on DD on Tipu Sultan where Hyder ALi was shown as a patriot and a military genius. That would hardly happen in a national govt. owned broadcaster if he was considered a villain.

But I must add, certain sections of the Keralite community, do consider him as a villain as he allegedly destroyed a lot of non-Islamic religious places during his invasion of Kerala.

well this post you had two different opinions of two different peoples of india. One thinks he is Villain and second take it as hero......... ok i accept that

Now what do you say about Krishna Raja? whom Hyder Ali defated?

and when was i wrong before?

 

[Awesome]

Birbal is nowhere counted as a hero. Much less a military one. He is mentioned as court noble famous for his wit. And yes we are taught about Faizi and Fazal but nowhere in a negative way.

I've heard otherwise...

Anyway, by any counts, Dahir can't be counted as a Hero, simply because he was an evil man. His power was usurped, upon conquest of Aror and Lower Sindh - he ruled over a Buddhist majority imposing rituals of Hinduism.

Mohammad Bin Qasim was just better, had a more organized and better equipped force to defeat Dahir's huge army and of course since the locals were disgruntled, he even had local help.

Mohammad Bin Qasim, by standards of those days showed too much leniency to the point where his methods of leniency were often questioned by his superiors. Especially for his declaration for sparing those who put down their arms (back then you even had to pledge to fight in the way of your conqueror, not just surrender).

It was a different time. Some might say his tales were heroic. He did what others failed before him (someone mentioned 14 times?) and as far as I remember I think his expedition was deemed just as hopeless as Arabs were losing their heart to fight in South Asia. Who knows, if he would've lost, Shahabuddin Ghauri might not have dared to go into battle with Prithvi Raj.

Prithvi Raj's Tales I'm told are almost demigod like.

None of these people are heroes in the modern day Superman sense. They just had an effect on history that brought a positive change from the Pakistani perspective.

 

[Hyde]

Nobodys know which Krishna Raja u talking about and where u learned this aspect.

Before Hyder Ali became a King he was a general in his kingdom. Hyder Ali joined his army as a soldier and due to his abilities got promotions and eventually became a General of Mysore .

Thats a long story and i will mention briefly if you further insist

And thats off topic so lets stick to Raja Dahir and Muhammad bin Qasim

 

[RobbieS]

well this post you had two different opinions of two different peoples of india. One thinks he is Villain and second take it as hero......... ok i accept that

Thats what you call plurality. Dont expect everybody to have the same opinion do you. Just like the ANP and you differ on Raja Dahar.

Now what do you say about Krishna Raja? whom Hyder Ali defated?

I haven't read about Hyder Ali's conflict with Krishna Raja. If anything, it was a domestic dispute between two Indians and they sorted it our amongst themselves through violent means, unfortunately. And how is this similar to Qasim and Raja Dahar?

and when was i wrong before?

Sorry, lost count of the times you were wrong about things in this thread. Kidding. I think I was talking about your views on foreign invaders v/s local rulers.

 

[Hyde]

It was a different time. Some might say his tales were heroic. He did what others failed before him (someone mentioned 14 times?) and as far as I remember I think his expedition was deemed just as hopeless as Arabs were losing their heart to fight in South Asia. Who knows, if he would've lost, Shahabuddin Ghauri might not have dared to go into battle with Prithvi Raj.

I think here you are mixing Sultan Mahmood Ghaznvi of Ghazni empire in this story.

Muhammad bin Qasim was the first leader who invaded Sindh.

 

[Hyde]

Thats what you call plurality. Dont expect everybody to have the same opinion do you. Just like the ANP and you differ on Raja Dahar.

I haven't read about Hyder Ali's conflict with Krishna Raja. If anything, it was a domestic dispute between two Indians and they sorted it our amongst themselves through violent means, unfortunately. And how is this similar to Qasim and Raja Dahar?



Sorry, lost count of the times you were wrong about things in this thread. Kidding. I think I was talking about your views on foreign invaders v/s local rulers.

from your discussion i can sense anybody who was born in India is considered Hero in Indian history and any foreign invader (no matter if he was right or wrong) is considered Villain