Our Hero Is Raja Dahir Not Muhammad Bin Qasim, Haji Adeel- ANP

[PracticalGuy]

^^^

Muslims always fought for honour and dignity! We freed people from their ignorance and tyrannical leaders... We came as liberators and of peace advocates!

I dont know why such a smart person as you are not able to understans such a simple fact as this

We = Arabs
People = You and Your ancestors whom the Arabs looted, raped and killed.

religious sentiments aside ...demeaning one's own legacy for the sake of invaders (Arabs in this case) is preposterous...

And nobody here talked anything about Islam or Muslims for that matter.. This whole thread is to peek into one's own history even if its good or bad and try to put one's own argument in a constructive manner. If any body thinks this is about Islam Vs Hinduism ..then I may say they are blinded by their narrow mindedness which makes them bring religion into everything...

and to ^^ your hatred filled comments towards others prove your abused childhood .. Peace to you brother..

 

[Awesome]

Try to communicate without insulting any member and talk only about the issues, everybody has a right to express their point of view on the issue at hand without getting insulted back.

This is a discussion forum, when discussing with the opposing side point of views would emerge that are different from yours. Refute them if you can, but don't attack the member making those points.

 

[Awesome]

^^^



I dont know why such a smart person as you are not able to understans such a simple fact as this

We = Arabs
People = You and Your ancestors whom the Arabs looted, raped and killed.

religious sentiments aside ...demeaning one's own legacy for the sake of invaders (Arabs in this case) is preposterous...

And nobody here talked anything about Islam or Muslims for that matter.. This whole thread is to peek into one's own history even if its good or bad and try to put one's own argument in a constructive manner. If any body thinks this is about Islam Vs Hinduism ..then I may say they are blinded by their narrow mindedness which makes them bring religion into everything...

and to ^^ your hatred filled comments towards others prove your abused childhood .. Peace to you brother..

For Pakistanis Lineage and casts are secondary. We are all equal and what matters only is our beliefs and the values we stand for.

It's a dumb argument. Its the same as saying we should yearn to be Apes. It's the same as saying the Americans were wrong to seek independence from the British - or that they were wrong to eliminate slavery since George Washington himself had slaves. Or the Jews were wrong to adopt the message of Moses which came from Arabia to Egypt and should follow the Sun God Ra'a - was the exodus wrong? Were the Allies wrong to fight their own white kind in WW2... But it just boils to one question, and this is what India's entire chull on this matter is - Were Pakistanis wrong to reject and divide British India?

It's a glaring "No" from all the victors of the incidents mentioned above. These incidents helped shaped our today they helped shaped our freedom - obviously their achievements would be viewed with a bit of admiration.

 

[PracticalGuy]

For Pakistanis Lineage and casts are secondary. We are all equal and what matters only is our beliefs and the values we stand for.

Since you have broughtup the castes thing into this unnecessarily... your quote above "we are all equal" do you stand by this sentence even when you see the current state of affairs in Pakistan.. I dont want to go deep..but I think you are knowledgeble to understand my point...

It's the same as saying the Americans were wrong to seek independence from the British

exactly brother ..thats what I have been saying from the begining... Now think about who are Americans and who are British from this thread perspective...

Were Pakistanis wrong to reject and divide British India?

Eventhough the partition is irrelevant to this thread.. I would still like to say that..judging the partition aside.. it was still the internal matter of undivided India..its not some outsideers Vs Insiders...

 

[Pride]

In my opinion, History has been twisted in many ways to fit to one's choice, but the fact remains true that local rulers are always preferred by any foreign invader and religion comes later.. Didn't Chengis Khan was initially scolded by Arabs being a foreign invader till the point of time he accepted Islam?

And yes, I read about Muhammad Bin Qasim in wikipedia to find spreading Islam in a Buddhist/Hindu area very peacefully...

"Muhammad bin Qasim wrote out letters to "kings of Hind" to surrender and accept Islam, and subsequently 10,000 cavalry were sent to Kannauj asking them to submit and pay tribute before his recall ended the campaign."

 

[Awesome]

In my opinion, History has been twisted in many ways to fit to one's choice, but the fact remains true that local rulers are always preferred by any foreign invader and religion comes later.. Didn't Chengis Khan was initially scolded by Arabs being a foreign invader till the point of time he accepted Islam?

And yes, I read about Muhammad Bin Qasim in wikipedia to find spreading Islam in a Buddhist/Hindu area very peacefully...

"Muhammad bin Qasim wrote out letters to "kings of Hind" to surrender and accept Islam, and subsequently 10,000 cavalry were sent to Kannauj asking them to submit and pay tribute before his recall ended the campaign."

As being part of the gene pool now, he's no longer foreign.

 

[Awesome]

Since you have broughtup the castes thing into this unnecessarily... your quote above "we are all equal" do you stand by this sentence even when you see the current state of affairs in Pakistan.. I dont want to go deep..but I think you are knowledgeble to understand my point...

All good people in Pakistan stand for it, all equal Pakistanis.

exactly brother ..thats what I have been saying from the begining... Now think about who are Americans and who are British from this thread perspective...

Dude Americans and the British have the same gene pool same race - at least when talking about way back when.

Eventhough the partition is irrelevant to this thread.. I would still like to say that..judging the partition aside.. it was still the internal matter of undivided India..its not some outsideers Vs Insiders...

Well not exactly. Extending this same Indian logic on and on, one day you Indians would've declared all Muslims as foreigners You guys are deeply entrenched in this zaat paat, genetics, family name, race name...

 

[Pride]

As being part of the gene pool now, he's no longer foreign.

If it suits you, You are free to choose your part of history but whenever a history is written.. a new religion accepted does not mean change of history and legacy... Chengis is still Mongol and not Arab...

 

[Pride]

All good people in Pakistan stand for it, all equal Pakistanis.



Dude Americans and the British have the same gene pool same race - at least when talking about way back when.



Well not exactly. Extending this same Indian logic on and on, one day you Indians would've declared all Muslims as foreigners You guys are deeply entrenched in this zaat paat, genetics, family name, race name...

Well sir, we will never ever claim all Muslims are foreigner's as we all know that many of our ancestors are forcefully converted to Islam and hence their legacy is uprooted with people of South Asia and not with Arabs....

And living in your chosen world might help you but as I stayed in Muslim populated area, I have seen many differences among Muslims which can be considered as zaat/paat... few to quote, apart from Shia/Sunnis frequent clashes over superiority...Pathans believe they are superior and they avoid lower class like Zulaha... and even during marriages in Muslims it is always seen from where the proposal is coming...

 

[PracticalGuy]

All good people in Pakistan stand for it, all equal Pakistanis.

I think its too optimistic to say these words.. every country in the world has one issue or another wrt it's people..and Pakistan is no exception to it.. even I can say the same words about India as the fundamental rights of all it's citizens are same irrespective of religion, race, caste, color, region etc.. though I cant say about this regarding Pakistan(religion does matter in Pakistan)

[quote
Dude Americans and the British have the same gene pool same race - at least when talking about way back when. [/QUOTE]
I dont understand what you are trying to say by repeating your gene pool logic... the discussion here is about Invaders Vs Locals and the gene pool that you are talking about is the result of the Invasion...

[QUOTE
Well not exactly. Extending this same Indian logic on and on, one day you Indians would've declared all Muslims as foreigners You guys are deeply entrenched in this zaat paat, genetics, family name, race name...[/quote]

Hypothesis is different from the History which actually happened.

On a side note I some times wonder what if Mr.Jinnah created Pakistan not on the basis of religion, even though if he wanted to make Paksitan as Islamic Republic after the partition? There wouldnt be such animosity between us and we wouldnt have witnessed the numerous meaning less loss of precious lives during partition on both sides of the border on the basis of religion. Because I strongly believe that Partition of India was a political game between Nehru and Jinnah and religion was just a tool to apsire their ambitions

 

[Marxist]

Raja Dahir was a tyrant and killer of Muslims. He abused many Muslims and killed many!

The Caliphate fought in retaliation to his abuses of human rights!

This is not rage, this is truth!

yes that is a truth,same human rights which USA said to attack Iraq and Afghanistan.(sorry for off topic) ,many said Muhammad Bin Qasim bring Islam to S.Asia,I heard that Islam existed in India before his arrival.

 

[Raghu]

Hmmm as stated before Dahir was an evil man, a conqueror himself over the local Buddhists of Sindh. Also 1000 years on, the genetics of his invasion are probably seeded in and deeply intricate within the South Asian population so the idea of him being considered a foreigner is something that may serve Indian point of view of Hindu Raj being the only appropriate raj but the subcontinent.

Anyway, the idea as explained before, if he never showed that conquest was ever possible, then perhaps there wouldn't have been subsequent conquests of India - perhaps there wouldn't have been a Pakistan even. He plays his role in the formation of Pakistan and in this creation tale of Pakistan, Dahir was the antagonist.

Funny u consider a local king of Sindh like Raja Dahir as conqueror or occupier over local Buddhist . Rajah Dahir was son of King Chach was a Sindhi Brahman from the town of Alor and started his carrier as priest in the court of Rai dynasty kings who were patrons of Buddhism though they also bulit Hindu temples of lord Shiva .

After death of Raja Sahsi Rai ,his queen Sunandi married the court priest Brahman Chach and hence Chach become the king of Sindh ruling over it for thirty years till his death in 671AD.

And talking up conquering over local Buddhist who were in majority ??

Tell me what was position of local Buddhist after the Arab invasion ,the religion become extinct from Sindh with in few decades though the Hindus continued to fight the battle for next three hundred yr till the end of 1000Ad when entire sindh and neighboring areas came under Muslim rule.

 

[Raghu]

Raja Dahir was a tyrant and killer of Muslims. He abused many Muslims and killed many!

The Caliphate fought in retaliation to his abuses of human rights!

This is not rage, this is truth!


Muslims always fought for honour and dignity! We freed people from their ignorance and tyrannical leaders... We came as liberators and of peace advocates!

Hindu rulers on the other hands were the exact opposite as they promoted nothing but destruction and violence!

It seems Caliphate was desprately trying to establish human rights in alien land of Sindh for more than eighty years in its fourteen(14) military expeditions starting from early as 638 A.D. Khalifa Umar sent Mughairah to launch a naval attack against Sindh, but it was repulsed on the Indian side.

The Chachnama Lists six more major attempts by land and/or by sea during the next 80 years till defeat of Raja Dahir in 711AD , led by Hakam, Abdullah, Rashid, Munzir, Sinan, and Bazil, but they were all repulsed and the invading commanders killed.

Khalifa Usman was so upset by the Arab defeats in Sindh during his term that he forbade any more attempts on Sindh, on the ground that ``its water is dirty, its soil stony, and its fruit poisonous.''



PS:Chachnama is the most authentic and almost contemporary Arab chronicle ( with the usual prejudice and a victor's version ) of that time since ,no Hindu/Buddhist chronicle exist today.

For all history enthusiasts ,here is the English version of Chachnama wrote by a British officer in 1900.

PHI Persian Literature in Translation of Chachnama

 

[kugga]

The problem here, and also I think in the world, is that people don't understand the psychology of a muslim.... actually we are not allowed to praise our race.... this is what taught by holy prophet (S.A.W) that no one has on edge on other on the basis of race you are better only if you have taqwa in other words if you are pious.......
In my opinion history is written by persons not by angels... so they twisted it according to what they thought we are not and will never be accountable for what raja dahir did or what Muhammad bin Qasim did so first of discussing who was right is a waste of time.....

Now comes the point of why muslims praise a foreign invader again nothing is foreign for a muslim as Iqbal said

Cheen o Arab humaara, Hindustaan humaara
Muslim hain hum watan hain saara jahaan humaara

So being muslim there is nothing foreign nothing local there is only one thing important for a muslim and that is taqwa if Muhammad bin qasim had more taqwa than raja dahir than obviously Muhammad bin qasim was better and if Raja dahir had more taqwa than he was better..... but we cannot praise raja dahir just because he was born in sindh because this unfair

 

[ice_man]

U mean to say for all those thousand years of mankind before the arrival of prophet of Islam in the Six century , those great ancient civilization & culture of India,Egypt,Greek, Mesopotamia or china etc were nothing but made of ignorance or debouch and were condemn to hell.

And only the arrival of Islam provided to true knowledge to the natives who were conquered by the Army of Islam giving them the prize possession of god Almighty's word and path to Salvation.,leaving behind the infidel Hindus,Buddhists ,Jews or any religious doomed for ever .

What about inhabitants South America and north America which hardly ever got a chance hear Allah's mercy in the form of Prophet message sent spread either by Army of Islam or peaceful Sufi saints ??
Are those place are destined to left behind till recently when Europeans voyages discovered sea routes to distant lands.



On one hand we are being told that spread Islam in subcontinent occurred through mystical spiritual darvesh Sufi saints who traveled distant lands to and most take offence if evidence forced conversion are presented ,on the other hands u find Muslims like u who credit a military leader Muhammad Bin Qasim for laying the foundations of Islam & Pakistan .

this is where you are wrong! ISLAM didn't come with prophet MOHAMMED! ISLAM was there from the time of ADAM! you don't understand islam my friend!

all those people who manipulated the WORD of their prophet are doomed! now ISLAM BELIEVES ALL PROPHETS MOSES,JESUS,IBRAHIM & NOAH etc (ALL HAD THE SAME MESSAGE) as PROPHET MOHAMMED! THE FOLLOWERS CONVERTED THE MESSAGE OR DISOBEYED THE MESSAGE!

now as for south america and north american talk! where did islam say ISLAM only came in the arabs world?

according to us we have 124,000 prophets (more or less) now they came to different people different background with the SAME MESSAGE!


and if MOHAMMED BIN QASIM forcefully coverted why didn't people go back to hiduism?

given your logic of FORCE! people should have gone back to hinduism or buddhism??? did anyone go back??

as for the EGYPITANS being doomed YES they are doomed for not following MOSES! so you see all those people who disobeyed there prophet are doomed! EVEN IF IT IS A MUSLIM(after all islam is one religion which started of with adam technically it is the oldest religion)