Our Afghanistan policy

[A-Team]

1. This is oxymoron, if Afghanistan had treated Pakitan as independent nation in 1947 then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Tables soon turned when Pakistan shifted its policy towards Afghanistan in 70's. Now its time for Pakistan to change policy but not before guarantee of not going back in era of 60's. Its up to Afghanistan to come up with plan how to convince Pakistan.

2. Taliban are your internal matter.

3. Forget about referendum.

4. Not till Afghanistan become independent.

1. Tables can always turn, Pakistan is a young country on the block while all of your neighbours were empires in their times. Pakistan remains a country not because you have anything in common but because of a social contract which can end any time, losing half of the country should be a good lesson. 40 years of parity is peanuts in the age of nations.Heck you even name your missiles with Afghan conquerors. There is a lesson for you, make peace, for having a permanent enemy on your border bodes ill in the long run.

2. Talis are not internal matter, it's an imposed project.

3. Cant!

4. Independence is a relative term, unless you are one of the superpowers, we are all independent/dependent in relative terms.
Getting dictates from China, does that sing songs of independence?

 

[TMA]

1. Tables can always turn, Pakistan is a young country on the block while all of your neighbours were empires in their times. Pakistan remains a country not because you have anything in common but because of a social contract which can end any time, losing half of the country should be a good lesson. 40 years of parity is peanuts in the age of nations.Heck you even name your missiles with Afghan conquerors. There is a lesson for you, make peace, for having a permanent enemy on your border bodes ill in the long run.

2. Talis are not internal matter, it's an imposed project.

3. Cant!

4. Independence is a relative term, unless you are one of the superpowers, we are all independent/dependent in relative terms.
Getting dictates from China, does that sing songs of independence?

So basically we disagree after all these discussions; the same will continue. Who will be the last one standing, so to speak?

 

[A-Team]

So basically we disagree after all these discussions; the same will continue. Who will be the last one standing, so to speak?

My two cents were pretty much the middle ground and any sane policy maker would agree to it.
Rebuffs were from Pak side, which is actually what is happening on the ground. My point here is that Afghanistan can take the bloodshed for decades to come, can you take the misery, a country only standing with a week social contract, with the only the army averting a total disintegration? No!

So sane solution would be agree on the middle ground and move froward, the alternative is distruction for Pak and AF.

/Peace

Ignore the typos I am multitasking

 

[TMA]

My two cents were pretty much the middle ground and any sane policy maker would agree to it.
Rebuffs were from Pak side, which is actually what is happening on the ground. My point here is that Afghanistan can take the bloodshed for decades to come, can you take the misery, a country only standing with a week social contract, with the only the army averting a total disintegration? No!

So sane solution would be agree on the middle ground and move froward, the alternative is distruction for Pak and AF.

/Peace

Ignore the typos I am multitasking

Middle ground? There can be no middle ground until Afghanistan accepts Pakistan unconditionally! There can be no middle ground until the border is secured and strict entry/exit controls in place!
You are the one who decides what is sane or not?

The sane solution for Pakistan would be repatriation of refugees, strict border control and pursing her national interest ruthlessly. The good thing for NATO created government in Kabul is that Pakistan has so many traitors in high position who are not doing this. (This is also good for NATO as well).

A weak social contract? What about Afghanistan? Without NATO invasion and aid what would happen to Afghanistan?

If Pakistan were to agree to what you say then most definitely she will be destroyed. If she does what I say, then she has a fighting chance but of course she must deal with the traitors first.

 

[A-Team]

A weak social contract? What about Afghanistan? Without NATO invasion and aid what would happen to Afghanistan?

.

Yes a weak social contract!
Afghanistan had no standing army for 2 decades, it still remaind a united Afghanistan, no matter all the misery in the country. Can Pakistan stay afloat and in one piece without its army for a week or month? No! Bangladesh should be a good case study.

Anyways we are on two different wavelengths. You are talking about securing border, that is not the issue, we can put as many locks in the border but when Talis are living close the GHQ, how are we gonna secure that

/Peace out.

 

[TMA]

My two cents were pretty much the middle ground and any sane policy maker would agree to it.
Rebuffs were from Pak side, which is actually what is happening on the ground. My point here is that Afghanistan can take the bloodshed for decades to come, can you take the misery, a country only standing with a week social contract, with the only the army averting a total disintegration? No!

So sane solution would be agree on the middle ground and move froward, the alternative is distruction for Pak and AF.

/Peace

Ignore the typos I am multitasking

I get it. Weak social contract. It all makes sense. A weak social contract that has kept Pakistan going through the odds for 70 years. Made her a nuclear power.

It seem Afghan jealousy for Daal Khor and Punjabi Ghulaam making a contract and actually making something of themselves is true indeed. (Of course this contract has not been perfect and there have been many great problems no doubt, but Pakistan is still going and this burns).

Remember when the Afghan King back in the day BETRAYED his people to the British and they became part of British India and then Pakistan. So much for Afghanistan's social contract or unity. Afghanistan is more disunited than Pakistan...you guys cannot agree on fighting an invader or welcoming him as a guest.

Why don't you worry about the Afghan Taliban who are ROAMING about freely in Afghanistan and who have control over swathes of countryside? Can you not accept that many of your country men are pissed off at being invaded by NATO? So much for unity!

 

[ziaulislam]

1. Tables can always turn, Pakistan is a young country on the block while all of your neighbours were empires in their times. Pakistan remains a country not because you have anything in common but because of a social contract which can end any time, losing half of the country should be a good lesson. 40 years of parity is peanuts in the age of nations.Heck you even name your missiles with Afghan conquerors. There is a lesson for you, make peace, for having a permanent enemy on your border bodes ill in the long run.

2. Talis are not internal matter, it's an imposed project.

3. Cant!

4. Independence is a relative term, unless you are one of the superpowers, we are all independent/dependent in relative terms.
Getting dictates from China, does that sing songs of independence?

1. wrong
you need to go back and study history
concept was to form two different states that was changed last minute in 1946 through dehli accord. aftewards multiple times a peaceful split was brought up, especially in the times of ayub but fear factor was india, the only regard pakistani has is that it was split in non peaceful manner

2. Afghanistan cannt alone claim pushtoon culture and history, parts of KPK were part of pushtoon area, TODAY MORE PUSHTOON live in PAKISTAN than Afghanistan, infact more pushtoons live in sindh than most of southern aghanistan!!!. there are alos more pushtoon tribes in pakistan than afghanistan

 

[A-Team]

I get it. Weak social contract. It all makes sense. A weak social contract that has kept Pakistan going through the odds for 70 years. Made her a nuclear power.

!

I am not racist, and those calling dalkhoors or whatever are not worth talking with.

 

[ziaulislam]

this is coming from person who is a pushtoon and has studied pushtoon culture and language for long time

Afghanistan is NOT A PUSHTOON MAJORITY COUNTRY, there are more minorities combined than pushtoons, today infact the power lies with those non pushtoons

most of the pushtoon had traditionally good thoughts about pakistan but in last 3 decades this has changed, as a nation as a whole and especially the non pushtoons specifically hate pakistan

 

[A-Team]

1. wrong
you need to go back and study history
concept was to form two different states that was changed last minute in 1946 through dehli accord. aftewards multiple times a peaceful split was brought up, especially in the times of ayub but fear factor was india, the only regard pakistani has is that it was split in non peaceful manner

2. Afghanistan cannt alone claim pushtoon culture and history, parts of KPK were part of pushtoon area, TODAY MORE PUSHTOON live in PAKISTAN than Afghanistan, infact more pushtoons live in sindh than most of southern aghanistan!!!. there are alos more pushtoon tribes in pakistan than afghanistan

1. What is your point?

2. Yes they live on both sides, they also live in the US, like you do. I am stating the facts that Afghanistan though dirt poor will remain Afghanistan but can the same be side for Pakistan? No!

There are two scenarios, we both sit down together, have a serious talk, make painful concessions and move on, and leave a peaceful legacy for our children. Or we can stay in an internal enmity, where Afghanistan will be the last to stand abliet in miserable form, while Pakistan will be disintegrated, the moment your security institutions cease to exist.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Yes a weak social contract!
Afghanistan had no standing army for 2 decades, it still remaind a united Afghanistan, no matter all the misery in the country. Can Pakistan stay afloat and in one piece without its army for a week or month? No! Bangladesh should be a good case study.

Anyways we are on two different wavelengths. You are talking about securing border, that is not the issue, we can put as many locks in the border but when Talis are living close the GHQ, how are we gonna secure that

/Peace out.

Really?????????...............this "social contract" has made Pakistan the 1st ever Islamic nuclear weapons state, have an advanced world class military and has a superpower investing in at least $61 billion in Pakistan which will eventually total over $100 billion.

This "social contract" has made Pakistan into a nation that 5-10 million of your fellow countrymen and women have come here like beggers and are now living in Pakistan.

afghan empire???????.....................the reality is that afghanistan is a hellhole and graveyard far worst than the poorest African nations.......you are not even in a position to comment..................

 

[rustom]

Really?????????...............this "social contract" has made Pakistan the 1st ever Islamic nuclear weapons state, have an advanced world class military and has a superpower investing in at least $61 billion in Pakistan which will eventually total over $100 billion.

This "social contract" has made Pakistan into a nation that 5-10 million of your fellow countrymen and women have come here like beggers and are now living in Pakistan.

afghan empire???????.....................the reality is that afghanistan is a hellhole and graveyard far worst than the poorest African nations.......you are not even in a position to comment..................

Do you understand what world class military is?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

1. What is your point?

2. Yes they live on both sides, they also live in the US, like you do. I am stating the facts that Afghanistan though dirt poor will remain Afghanistan but can the same be side for Pakistan? No!

There are two scenarios, we both sit down together, have a serious talk, make painful concessions and move on, and leave a peaceful legacy for our children. Or we can stay in an internal enmity, where Afghanistan will be the last to stand abliet in miserable form, while Pakistan will be disintegrated, the moment your security institutions cease to exist.

A nation that is the most failed country on the planet telling us about "disintegration"!!!!!!!!..................

 

[Kabira]

1. Tables can always turn, Pakistan is a young country on the block while all of your neighbours were empires in their times. Pakistan remains a country not because you have anything in common but because of a social contract which can end any time, losing half of the country should be a good lesson. 40 years of parity is peanuts in the age of nations.Heck you even name your missiles with Afghan conquerors. There is a lesson for you, make peace, for having a permanent enemy on your border bodes ill in the long run.

2. Talis are not internal matter, it's an imposed project.

3. Cant!

4. Independence is a relative term, unless you are one of the superpowers, we are all independent/dependent in relative terms.
Getting dictates from China, does that sing songs of independence?

1. Afghanistan empire was not natural as it included half half dozen ethnic groups who don't get with each other and Pakistani fully exploited that but Afghanistan failed to do that in Pakistan which proves Pakistan became more natural with passage of time. Pakistan didn't loss anything which wasn't with in our reach. If India could they would liberate Pak "occupied" Kashmir first. If India couldn't then Afghanistan will be turned in to dust before they even think about it. Empires are not natural but people can stay together with common interest. This is why when ever some people said Pakistan wanted Afghanistan to make it 5th province were delusional as that would imply treating them as equals like any other Pakistani. It wanted to treat Afghanistan more or less like now.

2. Taliban are internal matter of Afghanistan and I can't see them going anywhere as long as they have justification of fighting against foreign army. They will continue to recruit unemployed young afghans easily.

3. Then not sure why you expect Pakistan to not morally and diplomatically support Afghan people who are in favour of peace with Pakistan like Haqqani network. Now even US is thinking about not giving aid till Kabul guarantee Pakistan.

4. Idea of only super powers being independent is foolish. Everyone is dependent on everyone for trade, etc but independent nations can pick and choose their foreign policy which Afghanistan can't atm because its occupied.

 

[ziaulislam]

1. What is your point?

2. Yes they live on both sides, they also live in the US, like you do. I am stating the facts that Afghanistan though dirt poor will remain Afghanistan but can the same be side for Pakistan? No!

There are two scenarios, we both sit down together, have a serious talk, make painful concessions and move on, and leave a peaceful legacy for our children. Or we can stay in an internal enmity, where Afghanistan will be the last to stand abliet in miserable form, while Pakistan will be disintegrated, the moment your security institutions cease to exist.

thati s where you are wrong, it is this delusion that has kept Afghanistan for accepting pakistan, they think we would break up into God know what and they will grab KPK

since split in 1971 Pakistan has a single culture, identity and a language urdu, the proof is that today pushtoon identitfy them with pakistan not afghanistan, pushtton live in sindh, punjab, baluchistan, the punjabis lives in all four provinces, the baluchis live more in karachi than quetta, the so called boarders and tribes have diminished within the 70 years. you want more proof, KPK has voted for PPPP, ANP, PTI, PML , would they do that if race would be even an issue ??

there is more chance that Afghanistan would break into southern and northern Afghanistan as it was before US came than anyting happening to pakistan. if india with all its might couldnt break pakistan in 45 years it will not happen, india knows it too, there game is to keep us economically bad and hence playing afghan people and PAYING afghan leaders

your ignorance comes from lack of study of history, no identity stay for ever, this delusion of afgahnistna will be afghanistan will go away soon once afghanistan breaks up which seem to be the logical end of current civil war between warring factions..